Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I'm working on the fluff for my force at the moment and I have a few questions I hope you guys can answer for me. I have all three rulebooks but reading everything about Yu Jing, for example, to glean a tiny snippet of information is tiresome. I don't want to be lazy so I'll be looking for the answers anyway, I'm just hoping you guys can speed up the process for me. If you have an answer and you can, please leave a page reference so I can see if there is anything else that I can add to my fluff.

Since I'm going to have a quite small number of questions and there may be others needing the same service then feel free to ask your own questions here too. Maybe I can even answer a few of them to return the favour.

1a. Have oriental naming conventions, for people, changed throughout Infinity or are they the same as the modern day Far East?
1b. Is the name, Zhang Kira, for one of my characters, correct for modern day China and, as above, does that still apply in Infinity?

2a. As before, how do Haqqislam naming practices work and is that the same as in the current Middle East, particularly Islam?
2b. Inara bint Ali bin Abdullah Murad, is another of my character of mine, is the name correct in Infinity and is it correct now? I believe this name is actually a really old fashioned way of naming someone but I could use some clarification.

3. How serious does a crime have to be before Aleph get involved?

I'll add more questions as I go along i'm sure. Oh and the answers to these questions might not be available at all or they might be hidden by implied information, I'm just trying to get the most likely answer in that case.

Thanks folks/

I can answer the question about Haqq.

Naming conventions seem not to have changed, they have become broader I guess, like in Mass Effect where different races and cultures mix. So sometimes you get weird combinations, but your conservative choices are good.

Your suggestion does not sound old fashioned, merely elaborate. It means:

Inara, daughter of Ali, (he being) son of Murad.

Thanks for the reply, mate!

About the name though, I was aiming for:
Inara/daughter of Ali/son of Abdullah/Murad
Murad being the family name, is that not quite right? I'm mainly using a Wikipedia entry to work it out so it could well be wrong.

I've thrown in a lot of mixed origin names with other characters and this one might change a little to match but I quite like having a few unchanged styles of name. I'm glad I managed to get that across!

When you say the name is elaborate is that because people wouldn't normally give their name to that level of detail through choice or do most just not have names that long in the first place? I guess I'm asking whether the 'daughter of', 'son of' bits are optional additions or just very formal?

Thanks again!

 Casey's Law wrote:


3. How serious does a crime have to be before Aleph get involved?

Thanks folks!

Offically never, that is the O-12's job, ALEPH is the info and logistic system of the Sphere. Unoffically, ALEPH will send it black op units, to convertly take care of the problem if it will effect the AI plans. ALEPH only offical force are the greek assault force, and fluff wise there only allow on the Paradiso front. So the Nomads are right, don't trust the machine.

Thanks for clearing that up Noir. Being a nomads fan I wasn't sure how much of what I knew about Aleph was black propoganda.

So the likelihood of them getting involved in the hunt for a murderer is low? I guess they'd only get involved if it was some sort of political assassination or it directly effected their 'goals?'

When you say 0-12 I guess you mean Aegis? So I'm thinking there are three tiers of policing here. 1. Faction policing like Moderators, 2. Bureau Aegis, 3. Aleph. Does that sound about right? So in my murder situation it would probably fall under tier 1 jurisdiction unless the victim was influencial or important outside of their faction.

 Casey's Law wrote:
Thanks for the reply, mate!

About the name though, I was aiming for:
Inara/daughter of Ali/son of Abdullah/Murad
Murad being the family name, is that not quite right? I'm mainly using a Wikipedia entry to work it out so it could well be wrong.

I've thrown in a lot of mixed origin names with other characters and this one might change a little to match but I quite like having a few unchanged styles of name. I'm glad I managed to get that across!

When you say the name is elaborate is that because people wouldn't normally give their name to that level of detail through choice or do most just not have names that long in the first place? I guess I'm asking whether the 'daughter of', 'son of' bits are optional additions or just very formal?

Thanks again!

Then I guess it is pretty elaborate. From what I remember from my Arabic classes, the language itself is very elaborate - there is no such thing as an official surname. Your version works as a surname, though, and could mean Inara, daughter of Ali (son of) Murad. It could also be translated as INara Ali Murad, and that's probably what you're looking for.

The "son of" bit is optional, but many people would include it. Think of Osama bin Laden. He was Osama ibn Laden, Osama, son of Laden. It is not very formal, too, and you could see people on the street using it.

The thing with Arabic is that it is a very formal language that has not had a serious grammar reform, so it is pretty much the same it was a long time ago, meaning sentences are very elaborate and there are things that in other languages have died out or've been removed, like the dual number apart from the plural/singular.

There is also a difference between various local versions and between the spoken and written version. Some informalities are making its way into the language recently, as well.

That's great, thanks for taking the time to explain that. Last question on the subject, just for clarity. The grandfather section, is that pretty rare?

No, it happens, so I'd use it for fun, if I were you

Haha, awesome.

I think just about anything goes with Yu Jing. As you can see in some parts of China, mostly Hong Kong, Singapore, etc. it's pretty common to have an English name as well as your Chinese name. In Infinity you could have a mix of Chinese with Vietnamese or Korean. There' can even be a mixing of Mandarin with Cantonese.

Thanks, pal! I'm not sure if I'm going to add an English name to her, I think integration might have negated a need for that. That said, maybe it's a tradition that would not only stick but spread.

I'll have a think about that. But I'm pretty much ready to go now, once I've got the story outlined I'm going to post a blog.

Taking an English name probably comes from English being the current lingua franca of the world. For all we know, it's Mandarin, Punjab or back to Arabic in the setting.

It was French at one point, Amor de Cosmos is a glaring example of such. Look him up, weird fellow.

Yeh they are encouraged to take an English name when they learn English at school. Apparently you are required to have a certain level of English just to get into college. Also, aparently the names chosen are sometimes quite unusual because of the culture barrier.

I think I'll choose to believe that most people are pretty confident in English and Mandarin or at least one of them. If they tells us different I can change it easily.

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
Taking an English name probably comes from English being the current lingua franca of the world. For all we know, it's Mandarin, Punjab or back to Arabic in the setting.

It was French at one point, Amor de Cosmos is a glaring example of such. Look him up, weird fellow.

I know in Korea at least it's encouraged as Westerners sometimes have trouble pronouncing their names. Not true for all of course, most often its just because they can't be arsed.. thinking of the American Dad sketch, or Faulty Towers for that matter, about the subject

I just read a fantasy action book based around Chinese mythology where two of the characters had a thing for who paid for lunch in Hong Kong. They kept track of people they met and compare who had the wildest non-Chinese name. The wildest didn't have to buy lunch. The names were anything from Ivan, Kevin and Cloe to Circus. The author lived in Hong Kong for some time I guess.

It's always bugged me, this gray area in naming conventions. At McGill, there were a lot of Koreans and Chinese, all fine folks. But they would inverse the order of their names because of western standards, and then when I used the proper introductions, or adressed them in a formal fashion, they'd have to do a backflip and feel embarassed and then launch into the whole explanation again.

In a university educated population (ie the campus) please assume we are not ignoramii (ignoramuses) and give us your name how YOU say it, let us figure the rest out.

Thanks guys! I have another question before I can put this to one side...

4. What is the motivation behind your force?

I'm struggling to come up with a motivation that feels human and convincing. My ideas so far are just too bland and straight out of the books.

I've never been able to come up with force fluff without feeling silly. I tried though with my Haqqislam force ideas, but my normal Haqq force basically boils down to 'Haqqislam military'.

My Qapu Kalkhi force gets a bit more interesting, and in based around the spec ops model standing in as a Hafza Lt. Basically, disgraced Haqqislam officer who turned mercenary, with enough pull to get a bodyguard of Odalisques, with a squad of Druze standing by on call, and an old Al Hawwa buddy who tags along. Basically a buddy merc movie with some extras.

I've never been good at coming up with fluff though - I basically think of a theme for the force and build it around that.

I don't even bother with that level of detail.

My mandollies are all drones, regardless of game. Devoid of names or character. They exist to serve, and throw their carcasses in front of the enemy in order to slow them down - or hopefully choke to death on them.

I save names and the rest of that pack drill for rpgs.

I can't seem to find the fluff I did here to make a link but anyway, Mine is a Police force for a city on Paradiso. It is mockingly called New Shangri-La by PanO. It's religious center for Yu Jing on Paradiso, currently under attack by the Combined Army. The Peace force has moved from being a fighter of Haqqislam illegal drug cartels and Nomad weapon smugglers to fighting the insidious Shasvastii demons.

My Shasvastii don't really need a story. They are there to kill humans because the EI tells them to. Actually it's just a bit harder for me to come up with back story for aliens.

Most of the units in Infinity are military in some way. Sometimes a team that's been together for a while or just thrown together to accomplish an emergency. You could give them names like Seal Team 6, Howling Commandos, Sgt. Rock and the Losers, Strike Force Alpha, etc. That might be a way to start.

Thanks for the replies lads.

@Loki, you shouldn't feel silly about it. I used to feel like that when I was younger but the story is actually one of my favourite parts of the hobby. All of my forces are built around a good story, literature is just as worthy of your creativity as painting.

@chromedog, this comes back to a discussion I've had many times. It seems that most people lean heavily towards two of three core aspects of the hobby. Gaming, Miniatures, Fluff. Gaming is the social aspect, miniatures is visual and fluff is story telling. I lean towards fluff and miniatures so my particular hobby is rather a lonely one.
This idea describes the situation well though I think. The fact that we can all be joined in the hobby but one person can have no time for fluff and the next has no time for gaming.

@CDK, I remember reading your fluff in an old thread very recently, I can't remember which it was but I just searched the subforum for 'fluff' I think. Took a while to find but there is good stuff in there.
I really enjoyed reading your stuff actually, human but to the point. I know what you mean about writing for aliens, it doesn't really work because we don't connect to them. For my Hive Fleet I am basing it on the 'loneliness' of being seperated from the Hive Mind but it's a struggle to get that across.
The military thing is good advice. Maybe once I give them a name it'll all come together. Unusually for me I built the force before writing the story, it's completely backwards for me.

I'll come up with a name and see where it takes me. Thanks guys!

Huh, I didn't realize pushing 30 was young?

It's not really not liking fluff, it's about me not being terribly creative about it. I enjoy reading fluff, just not writing my own.

I wasn't calling you young! Haha! There was no emphasis on the word 'I' in what I said. Damn, the English language and it's silliness!

That's fair that you don't like writing it though, most people don't.

I also read, or used to read, a lot of comics. There's always some sort of clandestine group with a cool name somewhere. I at one time wanted to do groups based on Hydra, A.I.M., League of Assassins, the Suicide Squad, etc.

That'd be a great source of inspiration!

Also, choosing a name worked! I chose a name and all of a sudden the pieces all started sliding into place. I think I can post my blog tonight now that I have some fluff to sit beside my unpainted minis.

Awesome! Can't wait to see it.

Thanks for the help guys, that's the blog up now.

Is pushing 35 old then?

I used to come up with fluff for my 40K armies, but then get punished for it. My WAAC friend would just spam whatever was best at levelling anything to the ground.

For Infinity, I just bought what I liked, and I just happen to have bought a lot of cheerleaders level minis. Then the Nisse sniper had my heart, and our good friend Alpharius told me about the Jotum, and the winter theme was born. Again, not optimal, but I can get things done.

Not sure if you are serious about the age thing...

Anyway, anyone who wants to write fluff for their forces just has to find a way that's comfortable for them and when they get stuck just ask around until something helps. We all have different ways of doing things, that's one of the reasons the hobby is so much fun.