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So I was playing with my nob bikers yesterday, and after I turbo-boosted with them my opponent tried to flame them with his dreadknight and said that since I turbo-boosted I could not take my invul save. I could not see any basis for this, and I refused to allow it because he find feel like looking up the basis for it. Does he have a leg to stand on on this rule? It doesn't make much sense to me.

Gaining or losing one save doesn't cause you to gain or lose another.

Using a save prevents you from using another.

Your example would be the same as saying "Since you went into cover, you no longer get your armor save and therefore you get a 5+ save"

Your opponent was misinformed or cheating like a loon.

You always get all your saves available, and take the best one.

For example with your turboboosted bikers you have a 4+ regular, a 3+ cover and a 5+ inv.

If his weapon ignores the 4+ regular and the 3+ cover, you still get the 5+ inv.

Pg 15-19 for saves rules

Pg 19 'models with more than one save'

 Ascalam wrote:
You always get all your saves available, and take the best one.

For example with your turboboosted bikers you have a 4+ regular, a 3+ cover and a 5+ inv.

If his weapon ignores the 4+ regular and the 3+ cover, you still get the 5+ inv.

Pg 15-19 for saves rules

Pg 19 'models with more than one save'

Exactly correct.

I asked him about it again and he said he was thinking of an old 4th edition rule. Thanks for the responses.

herpguy wrote:
I asked him about it again and he said he was thinking of an old 4th edition rule. Thanks for the responses.

been playing since late third ... i know of no such rule.

Aha! I do remember that. In 4th edition turbo boosting replaced your armor save with an invulnerable save of the same value.

It was a notorious hole in the rules, in part because old Grey Knight Psycannons from the old Daemonhunters codex ignored all Invulnerable saves, so if a squad of SM or Eldar bikes Turbo-boosted, it actually made them MORE vulnerable to psycannons.

 Mannahnin wrote:
It was a notorious hole in the rules, in part because old Grey Knight Psycannons from the old Daemonhunters codex ignored all Invulnerable saves, so if a squad of SM or Eldar bikes Turbo-boosted, it actually made them MORE vulnerable to psycannons.

And to think we still play this game for fun...

But yes, gaining one save doesn't usually make you lose another. You can still take the best one.

 Mannahnin wrote:
Aha! I do remember that. In 4th edition turbo boosting replaced your armor save with an invulnerable save of the same value.

It was a notorious hole in the rules, in part because old Grey Knight Psycannons from the old Daemonhunters codex ignored all Invulnerable saves, so if a squad of SM or Eldar bikes Turbo-boosted, it actually made them MORE vulnerable to psycannons.

Ah yes now i remember. Never bother me as grey knights were rarely used other then an ally, not sure how some one would remember that rule since only very rarely came up.

Maybe the guy just hadn't played against Bikes in the last six years? Which seems a bit strange, but I have noticed a fair number of older players getting back into the game recently who skipped an edition or two.

Still remember it, because when i was playing my Khorne Deamon Prince with Dread Axe ( D weapon who canceled invul saves), i loved turboboosted bikes and SoB with the invulnerable Faith...

The invulnerable save didn't apply in close combat, however.

Yes it did, an invulnerable save, is an invulnerable save, so it applied in CC as well, only cover saves doesn't apply in CC.

 Slayer le boucher wrote:
Yes it did, an invulnerable save, is an invulnerable save, so it applied in CC as well, only cover saves doesn't apply in CC.

wow this is got me unpacking my old BGB 4th edtion "In the following enemy shooting phase treat the bikes armour save as invulnerable." So doesn't work on bikes as it only work on the shooting phase (then again D weapons ignore all saves other then cover ) ... but i guess Sister of battle would have been unlucky ... if they wasted a faith point.

 Ascalam wrote:
Your opponent was misinformed or cheating like a loon.

You always get all your saves available, and take the best one.

For example with your turboboosted bikers you have a 4+ regular, a 3+ cover and a 5+ inv.

If his weapon ignores the 4+ regular and the 3+ cover, you still get the 5+ inv.

Pg 15-19 for saves rules

Pg 19 'models with more than one save'

I'm very confused, why would they gain a 3+ cover save? Turbo-boosting only makes your jink+1 not other cover saves? Or am I terribly wrong here?

 Slayer le boucher wrote:
Yes it did, an invulnerable save, is an invulnerable save, so it applied in CC as well, only cover saves doesn't apply in CC.

When the rule specifies you only get it in the shooting phase, you only get it in the shooting phase.

 RutgerMan wrote:

 Ascalam wrote:
Your opponent was misinformed or cheating like a loon.

You always get all your saves available, and take the best one.

For example with your turboboosted bikers you have a 4+ regular, a 3+ cover and a 5+ inv.

If his weapon ignores the 4+ regular and the 3+ cover, you still get the 5+ inv.

Pg 15-19 for saves rules

Pg 19 'models with more than one save'

I'm very confused, why would they gain a 3+ cover save? Turbo-boosting only makes your jink+1 not other cover saves? Or am I terribly wrong here?

you're correct.

turbo boosting improves jink saves. bikes start with a 4+ cover save from their exhaust cloud.

but if it was flame template for the OP, I know quite a few of them have an ap of 4, so that would ignore armor and cover. so that just leaves an invuln save if you did the upgrades.

Yeah, brain blip there.

Should be 4+ armour, 4+ cover, 5++ inv.

Too used to my skilled rider DE reavers, i guess

All too many template weapons ignore the bikers armour and cover, true enough.

Heavy flamers are the classic example of a feth-you for Bikerboyz.

AP 4, ignores cover and S 5 means it'll be wounding them all too often. Cybork will still work, though.

nosferatu1001 wrote:

 Slayer le boucher wrote:
Yes it did, an invulnerable save, is an invulnerable save, so it applied in CC as well, only cover saves doesn't apply in CC.

When the rule specifies you only get it in the shooting phase, you only get it in the shooting phase.

True, Forgot that one.

Yea, heavy flamers are the biggest middle finger to bikes. Same reason i never pay for 'eavy armor, its ALWAYS penned except by random infantry and random infantry rarely shoot at it anyway. I think in ~15 games of giving my bosses/nobz 'eavy armor i got to use it like 4 times? lol.

I actually havent been using bikes, their counters are just too damnc ommon these days (a couple kombi heavy flamers alone can wreck half the nob missile)