Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 ImRightBehindYou wrote:
My son wants to get into the game, so this whole thread was on his behalf, but he is toying with the idea of 5 or 6 rhinos full of marines, sternguard, and pedro that trundle up, unload everyone and blast the bejeezus out of the opponent. The opponent then has to trade fire with the marines, or charge them. Both are risky as their force would likely be highly depleted after 60 marines open up on them. Then, the marines could fire again, or charge in after shooting pistols and get as many attacks as a charging assault marine with the Pedro bonus. On the flipside, if they want to charge, after they've been shot they have to weather the overwatch and then still face marines with two to three attacks a piece. Thoughts?

If you replace the rhinos with drop pods you get a typical pedro drop list. Same basic strategy, but without your rides getting blown up halfway across the table. Even if you rush forward and pop smoke, a lot of your rhinos are going to die turn one. And they are going to be the ones with the sternguard. Plus, because you do nothing but move up first turn, you are basically ceding a free round of fire to your opponent. Could it work? Probably, with a little refinement; I'd want some fire support to help.

Interesting. I'd have to find some stuff to start on the table for the drop pod strategy to work.

When our marines drop down in price to DA levels (or, more rather, gain the flexability of the DA tactical marines) then they will be fine. Similarly for scouts, and even dreads for that matter.

Just be prepared for losing garunteed gate and null zone! Unless I am mistaken every new dex has had all psych powers rolled and non to be able to be picked from. On the flip side libby costs should also drop like a rock similar to DA.


So yeah, we're okay now. competative with FW (hyperios and CML/lascannon contemptors ROCK, as does redth. Infiltrate for all infantry is huge), and will be competative again when the prices of our troops drops to match that of DA. Until then we wait.

< Taken by the void dragon. >

"I was not aware that Flyers did not count against that total; as models that MUST start in Reserve (Drop Pods, etc.) are counted. "

Nope. Models that must go in reserve (like Marbo, Callidus Assassin, Drop Pods, Al'Rahem, etc) do NOT count towards the half of the list you reserve/not reserve. Also per the last FAQ, units that go in a transport that must reserve (Vendetta and Stormraven for instance) also don't count.

< Taken by the void dragon. >

My first thought is that these marines are piling out of rhinos at about the same time the helldrakes would be showing up.

@ Che-Vito

BRB FAQ, 8th page, right side, halfway down the pdf. Yup, good day for flying transports.

Good day, other than you are piecemealing yourself for your opponent. Unless you are IG running 130 pt transport fliers with troops you can afford to instagib all over the battlefield, don't use fliers as transports.

Martel732 wrote:
Good day, other than you are piecemealing yourself for your opponent. Unless you are IG running 130 pt transport fliers with troops you can afford to instagib all over the battlefield, don't use fliers and transports.

Oh I do use IG like that but, right this is about just C:SM. Yeah, I see your point.

Martel732 wrote:
My first thought is that these marines are piling out of rhinos at about the same time the helldrakes would be showing up.

That would be a concern

Martel732 wrote:
Good day, other than you are piecemealing yourself for your opponent. Unless you are IG running 130 pt transport fliers with troops you can afford to instagib all over the battlefield, don't use fliers as transports.

The problem with using stormravens as transports is many people only take one, and put their most expensive/killy unit in them. This screams to your opponent to throw everything they have at it. Instead take a couple and maybe ally in a vendetta to your opponent pause to which threat he wants to deal with first.

Glocknall wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Good day, other than you are piecemealing yourself for your opponent. Unless you are IG running 130 pt transport fliers with troops you can afford to instagib all over the battlefield, don't use fliers as transports.

The problem with using stormravens as transports is many people only take one, and put their most expensive/killy unit in them. This screams to your opponent to throw everything they have at it. Instead take a couple and maybe ally in a vendetta to your opponent pause to which threat he wants to deal with first.

It doesn't matter. I will still shoot down the most costly transport with the most costly contents. That is not a tough decision. The stormraven will still go down, your stuff inside will still instagib, and you will still lose. The more you reserve, the more piecemealed you get. If you opponent has a way to penalize your reserve rolls, you almost lose right there barring insane luck.

I recently heard someone saying that C:SM works best with 3 storm talons, 3 thunderfire cannons, and a guard blob.

From there you could add whatever you liked, like some TACs

 labmouse42 wrote:
I recently heard someone saying that C:SM works best with 3 storm talons, 3 thunderfire cannons, and a guard blob.

From there you could add whatever you liked, like some TACs

I'll buy that for a dollar.

 labmouse42 wrote:
I recently heard someone saying that C:SM works best with 3 storm talons, 3 thunderfire cannons, and a guard blob.

From there you could add whatever you liked, like some TACs

Not trying to single you out Labmouse, I know you are just throwing out an idea, but that sounds like standard internet "wisdom". I don't think anyone can argue that your meta and your ability to adapt your force (especially with Codex Marines) to the situation are more important to your list than following the flavor of the month internet list.

I run C:SM with 2 mounted Tacs, 2 Vindicators, 2 Typhoons, a Rifle Dread, a podding Ironclad Dread, a Terminator Librarian w/ a Tac Term entourage, and a Stormraven w/ Hurricane Bolters and a 5 man scout squad inside. My list isn't revolutionary (nothing in C:SM is anymore) but it isn't what the internetters would tell me works best. I use units that many would call ineffective or plain weak, but the strength of C:SM is versatility, so if you have the ability to build a list and know exactly what each unit is capable of and how it can be used in different situations, then you can and will win games. In about 12-15 games against foes ranging from Tau to DA to C:SM, I have only lost 1 game, and it was only by 1 maybe 2 VP's.

Take All Comers Codex Marines should have a variety of units that can fill multiple roles aside from their main use, you want the abilities of your different units to overlap a bit to provide redundancy and a variety of ways to complete a job. You should be able to deploy in different formations or via different methods to suit the situation. You should have units that can threaten at all range bands (0-12,12-24, 24-36, 36-48+). You should be able to use your force to shoot at long range, shoot at medium range, or assault into the foe if necessary. You should be able to count on your units to be where they need to be, and do what they need to do, without relying unduly on less reliable methods, like getting good reserve rolls, or getting lucky on an abilities table roll.

If you can't at least do those things, or you are relying on a certain spammed units to do the heavy lifting for your army, then you can't call you list TAC.

One thing I've been finding is that just having a lot of boots on the ground is key to winning. Although our troops lack flexability of DA tacticals, it's still important to field lots, it really helps holding objectives.

At 1750 I have 3 full 10 man tactical squads, and only ususally lose ~18-22 of them, which means typically i still ahve a tleast 2 combat squads left holding objectives. It also lets me use combat squads to screen out relic holders and other stuff like that, so having just a lot of scoring bolter bodies is a pretty big deal.

Granted, I use redth (FW), so they all have infiltrate, which is huugee too. but *shrug*

Martel732 wrote:I'll buy that for a dollar.

Sadly it will cost you a lot more than a dollar to get into that army.

UltraTacSgt wrote:Not trying to single you out Labmouse, I know you are just throwing out an idea, but that sounds like standard internet "wisdom". I don't think anyone can argue that your meta and your ability to adapt your force (especially with Codex Marines) to the situation are more important to your list than following the flavor of the month internet list.

I run C:SM with 2 mounted Tacs, 2 Vindicators, 2 Typhoons, a Rifle Dread, a podding Ironclad Dread, a Terminator Librarian w/ a Tac Term entourage, and a Stormraven w/ Hurricane Bolters and a 5 man scout squad inside. My list isn't revolutionary (nothing in C:SM is anymore) but it isn't what the internetters would tell me works best. I use units that many would call ineffective or plain weak, but the strength of C:SM is versatility, so if you have the ability to build a list and know exactly what each unit is capable of and how it can be used in different situations, then you can and will win games. In about 12-15 games against foes ranging from Tau to DA to C:SM, I have only lost 1 game, and it was only by 1 maybe 2 VP's.

No worries, man, just trying to help out. The guy who was explaining that army list is a very good player, and I was trying to pass his logic on.

As you mentioned, what you play is highly meta dependent. If your playing where 1/2 of the players are bringing helldrakes, you need to bring a different army than if your playing 'crons.