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Hey guys so im painting up my Chaos Marines as the Word bearers and while I know they worship chaos as a whole and not as seperate dietys I have a couple of questions about them.
1)Would Word Bearers have any sorcerors at all? I know obviously Kor Phareon can use psychic powers and Lorgar can to some extent but other than those 2 have they been known to have any sorcerors
2) Now I know the Gal Vorbak were the first Possesssed Chaos Space Marines would any of these be left or have they all died
3)if all the Gal Vorbak have died would word bearers still have any possessed?
4) Did word bearers have any assault marines at all? and if so would they have any raptors

Im just wondering about these things as I am trying to think about what units fit the theme of my Word Bearers army Want to keep it close to theme as possible (so everything is chaos Undivided no bezerkers 1k sons plague marines noise marines or daemon engines in the army, no oblits or mutilators)

I imagine that Gal Vorbak and all his possessed companions are dead. But the Word Bearers still have possessed marines as shown in the world bearer novel series that the word bearers always keep a large amount of possessed marines as they see them as being closer to the dark gods. Also there very useful.

Hmmm its sad that all the Gal Vorbak are dead :( however me do like possessed so thats all good

1) Yes, 2 & 3) Probably dead, plenty of other possessed anyway (see burnaboy), 4) Yes.

Word Bearers would also field Daemon Engines/Obliterators, and quite probably a variety of cult troops.

I cant really see the Cult Troops being part of the word bearers as they worship Chaos Undivided

Captaintyrius wrote:
I cant really see the Cult Troops being part of the word bearers as they worship Chaos Undivided

That would be exactly why I could see them using a variety of cult troops. Some of their warriors must lean further one way than others from time to time, and all are part of the glorious whole. It's not like Undivided is the name of some fifth Chaos Power.

Slaanesh-Devotee wrote:

Captaintyrius wrote:
I cant really see the Cult Troops being part of the word bearers as they worship Chaos Undivided

That would be exactly why I could see them using a variety of cult troops. Some of their warriors must lean further one way than others from time to time, and all are part of the glorious whole. It's not like Undivided is the name of some fifth Chaos Power.

Exactly. The same way they would summon daemons dedicated to specific gods, or how the Black Legion has a variety of cult troops. The Word Bearers most likely have cult troops from all 4 gods within their ranks. So long as they're not mostly dedicated to one god, its fine.

I fear this is a common misconception of Chaos Undivided. It's akin to how, In Storm of Iron, certain Iron Warriors would favour one god (Khorne) over another, or like Uzas or Cyrion in the Night Lords trilogy.

Slaanesh-Devotee wrote:

Captaintyrius wrote:
I cant really see the Cult Troops being part of the word bearers as they worship Chaos Undivided

That would be exactly why I could see them using a variety of cult troops. Some of their warriors must lean further one way than others from time to time, and all are part of the glorious whole. It's not like Undivided is the name of some fifth Chaos Power.

There is only 1 splinter group of Word Bearers who fell to one chaos power over all the others and thats the Sanctified who fell to worshipping Khorne instead of all the gods. The Word Bearers as a legion worship Chaos Undivided or in another time the entire Chaos Pantheon this is why cult troops make no sense for them.

Captaintyrius wrote:

Slaanesh-Devotee wrote:

Captaintyrius wrote:
I cant really see the Cult Troops being part of the word bearers as they worship Chaos Undivided

That would be exactly why I could see them using a variety of cult troops. Some of their warriors must lean further one way than others from time to time, and all are part of the glorious whole. It's not like Undivided is the name of some fifth Chaos Power.

There is only 1 splinter group of Word Bearers who fell to one chaos power over all the others and thats the Sanctified who fell to worshipping Khorne instead of all the gods. The Word Bearers as a legion worship Chaos Undivided or in another time the entire Chaos Pantheon this is why cult troops make no sense for them.

The Word Bearers were the 2nd largest Legion: there would be more than one splinter group. There could be groups from all sorts of Legions worshipping any god. I could have a Night Lords warband dedicated to Slaanesh if I wanted: that's the fractured nature of the Chaos Legions.

Nonetheless, Chaos Undivided doesn't mean worshipping no god in specific, it means worshipping all gods. Hence, they could have cult troops.

No it very much says the opposite in Dark Apostle. They look down on anyone who gives in to one god as it breaches the rules of their face. Cult troops are those that are indulging themselves, the Word Bearers form of Undivided is about a balanced worship of the Pantheon, they are not like the Black Legion who switch allegiances for convenience. The is a champion named Khalaxis in the Word Bearers trilogy who is starting to fall to Khorne, the only reason his Apostle hasn't punished him yet is because he only just gained control of the warband and doesnt want to risk a rebellion in the ranks. The policy of the Legion is destruction for any who try and defect. The Sanctified are the only known splinter to have managed this feat.

Excellent choice on the Word Bearers as your Legion!

They are personally one of my favourites.

To remain fluffy I would use:

1. Dark Apostle in every game
2. A reasonable amount of Cultists
3. Plenty of troops with daemonic abilities (i.e. Obliterators, warp talons)
4. Lots of Possessed (even if the Gal Vorbak are dead - and there are no guarantees they all are as Argel Tal at least survived the First Heretic book- then the WB would have made more Possessed over the millenia)
5. No marks on HQs other than undivided
6. Little to no cult troops unless you decide to go fully one god but then you aren't really Word Bearers anymore if you do that

That is imo how Word Bearers should operate on the table top.

I see no reason why they wouldn't have any particular non cult troops like raptors, havocs etc so go nuts on them!

Well im planning to run the current amount of cultists I have (which is only 20) but I will be buying more in the future My Dark Apostle is always gonna be my Warlord even when his first acolyte is present. I will probably try and convert some possessed marines by mixing bits between the basic chaos marines and the possessed kit as thats what im basically doing for my chosen (I really hate sticking the possessed models together)

rohansoldier wrote:
Excellent choice on the Word Bearers as your Legion!

They are personally one of my favourites.

To remain fluffy I would use:

1. Dark Apostle in every game
2. A reasonable amount of Cultists
3. Plenty of troops with daemonic abilities (i.e. Obliterators, warp talons)
4. Lots of Possessed (even if the Gal Vorbak are dead - and there are no guarantees they all are as Argel Tal at least survived the First Heretic book- then the WB would have made more Possessed over the millenia)
5. No marks on HQs other than undivided
6. Little to no cult troops unless you decide to go fully one god but then you aren't really Word Bearers anymore if you do that

That is imo how Word Bearers should operate on the table top.
fg
I see no reason why they wouldn't have any particular non cult troops like raptors, havocs etc so go nuts on them!

how do #'s 2 and 6 work together?

Cultists aren't cult troops

Cult troops refer to Khorne berserkers, Plague marines, noise marines and thousand sons

 Just Dave wrote:
1) Yes, 2 & 3) Probably dead, plenty of other possessed anyway (see burnaboy), 4) Yes.

Word Bearers would also field Daemon Engines/Obliterators, and quite probably a variety of cult troops.

I cant see them with daemon engines or obliterators

I also definiltly cant see them with cult troops. They dont worship any particular chaos god, they worship the truth that their are chaos gods.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Just Dave wrote:

Captaintyrius wrote:

Slaanesh-Devotee wrote:

Captaintyrius wrote:
I cant really see the Cult Troops being part of the word bearers as they worship Chaos Undivided

That would be exactly why I could see them using a variety of cult troops. Some of their warriors must lean further one way than others from time to time, and all are part of the glorious whole. It's not like Undivided is the name of some fifth Chaos Power.

There is only 1 splinter group of Word Bearers who fell to one chaos power over all the others and thats the Sanctified who fell to worshipping Khorne instead of all the gods. The Word Bearers as a legion worship Chaos Undivided or in another time the entire Chaos Pantheon this is why cult troops make no sense for them.

The Word Bearers were the 2nd largest Legion: there would be more than one splinter group. There could be groups from all sorts of Legions worshipping any god. I could have a Night Lords warband dedicated to Slaanesh if I wanted: that's the fractured nature of the Chaos Legions.

Nonetheless, Chaos Undivided doesn't mean worshipping no god in specific, it means worshipping all gods. Hence, they could have cult troops.

and if some word bearers or night lords started worshiping one god they would cease being word bearers or night lords
word bearers worship truth, chaos undivided
night lords do not worship chaos
if you started worshiping khorne you would very quickly find yourself splintering off and joining another warband.

KorPhaeron77 wrote:No it very much says the opposite in Dark Apostle. They look down on anyone who gives in to one god as it breaches the rules of their face. Cult troops are those that are indulging themselves, the Word Bearers form of Undivided is about a balanced worship of the Pantheon, they are not like the Black Legion who switch allegiances for convenience. The is a champion named Khalaxis in the Word Bearers trilogy who is starting to fall to Khorne, the only reason his Apostle hasn't punished him yet is because he only just gained control of the warband and doesnt want to risk a rebellion in the ranks. The policy of the Legion is destruction for any who try and defect. The Sanctified are the only known splinter to have managed this feat.

Ah OK, apologies for the inaccurate statements then. Thanks for the info: I'd been advised away from the Word Bearer omnibus, so hadn't read it.

rohansoldier wrote:4. Lots of Possessed (even if the Gal Vorbak are dead - and there are no guarantees they all are as Argel Tal at least survived the First Heretic book- then the WB would have made more Possessed over the millenia)

It's looking like the majority - if not all - of the Gal Vorbak will die during the Heresy. There will be a short story (by AD-B) within the Mark of Calth anthology about the Gal Vorbak being abandoned and whittled down by the Ultramarines; whilst in Aurelian Lorgar was shown that apparently Argel Tal will be killed by Sanguinius during the Siege of Terra. Admittedly, it was a vision provided by Chaos, but AD-B has expressed before a desire to not have loads of dudes surviving the Heresy as it would spoil the cataclysmic atmosphere somewhat...

Captaintyrius wrote:
Hey guys so im painting up my Chaos Marines as the Word bearers and while I know they worship chaos as a whole and not as seperate dietys I have a couple of questions about them.
1)Would Word Bearers have any sorcerors at all? I know obviously Kor Phareon can use psychic powers and Lorgar can to some extent but other than those 2 have they been known to have any sorcerors

If by "sorcerors" you mean psykers, then the psyker trait shows up no more or less often than in other Legions/Chapters (exceptions like TS nonwithstanding). As they approach Dark Apostle-level, many are able to influence the thoughts and actions of others (think bene-geserit voice), which is what makes them such capable demagogues, as well as being able to display additional control over daemons (my personal theory is that they are using Enuncia).

2) Now I know the Gal Vorbak were the first Possesssed Chaos Space Marines would any of these be left or have they all died

Most, if not all of the original Gal Vorbak are dead (there were what, a squad's worth of them initially?). Argel Tal was one of the last and his ass is grass.

3) If all the Gal Vorbak have died would word bearers still have any possessed?

Other possessed were created and joined the Gal Vorbak after the original few, although the originals viewed these as pale immitations since they hadn't taken that initial voyage into the Eye. "Gal Vorbak" is a rank, essentially, like being part of the Inner Circle, or the Wolf Guard, or Phoenix Guard, or whatever.

4) Did word bearers have any assault marines at all? and if so would they have any raptors

Sure, why not. My impression from their tactics in novels that they are more of a ponderous attrition-focused ground-based force, but there's nothing stopping you from throwing some jetpack guys in there.

Captaintyrius wrote:

There is only 1 splinter group of Word Bearers who fell to one chaos power over all the others and thats the Sanctified who fell to worshipping Khorne instead of all the gods. The Word Bearers as a legion worship Chaos Undivided or in another time the entire Chaos Pantheon this is why cult troops make no sense for them.

What do you think Entire Chaos Pantheon means exactly? Most uses of the word would imply that they worship all the various gods of the pantheon, which leaves plenty of room for some small groups that get more worked up over one good or another at some point.

Hell, because they don't feel the need to fully turn themselves over to one of the gods, perhaps they manage to even swap around gods! Maybe these Wordbearers that relsih the Blood God eventually find that the stimulation becomes something more and find themselves turning towards Slaanesh, before finally accepting their inevitable death and worshipping Grandfather Nurgle.

This is why I think there needs to be some sort of alternative Tzeentchian cult unit. Thousand Sons are very deliberately a particular chapter and their rules reflect a very specific event that happened to them. But Plaguemarines, Berserkers and Noisemarines are all potentially members of a variety of chapters that have been drawn together by their worship of the gods.

I suppose the sorceror that comes with the Automatons is the Tzeentchian from the Chapter and he has cursed some of his fellows into becoming his automatons to aid his sorcery? Still don't like it much...

Slaanesh-Devotee wrote:

Captaintyrius wrote:

There is only 1 splinter group of Word Bearers who fell to one chaos power over all the others and thats the Sanctified who fell to worshipping Khorne instead of all the gods. The Word Bearers as a legion worship Chaos Undivided or in another time the entire Chaos Pantheon this is why cult troops make no sense for them.

What do you think Entire Chaos Pantheon means exactly? Most uses of the word would imply that they worship all the various gods of the pantheon, which leaves plenty of room for some small groups that get more worked up over one good or another at some point.

Hell, because they don't feel the need to fully turn themselves over to one of the gods, perhaps they manage to even swap around gods! Maybe these Wordbearers that relsih the Blood God eventually find that the stimulation becomes something more and find themselves turning towards Slaanesh, before finally accepting their inevitable death and worshipping Grandfather Nurgle.

This is why I think there needs to be some sort of alternative Tzeentchian cult unit. Thousand Sons are very deliberately a particular chapter and their rules reflect a very specific event that happened to them. But Plaguemarines, Berserkers and Noisemarines are all potentially members of a variety of chapters that have been drawn together by their worship of the gods.

I suppose the sorceror that comes with the Automatons is the Tzeentchian from the Chapter and he has cursed some of his fellows into becoming his automatons to aid his sorcery? Still don't like it much...

certainly there are members of the original Word Bearers that have devoted themselves to a single god and then moved on to become a mindless devotee cult trooper. The thing is that once a guy does that he is no longer following Logar and is not going to get along with the remaining word bearers or the dark council. Word Beaers might fight with a warband if they got desprete enough, but they arent going to be in the same warband with people that limit themselves to worshiping one god for very long.

Now heres a background related question I just thought of
Why do Kor Phareon and Erebus hate each other so much

Captaintyrius wrote:
Now heres a background related question I just thought of
Why do Kor Phareon and Erebus hate each other so much

I don't think they hate each other, I just think that after 10 thousand years they both get bored and need a little entertainment.

Regards to the Gal Vorbak, depending on how they died, would they ever try to make a new possessed marine by attempting to bind one of these Daemons to a new marine? I mean, unless the Daemon is destroyed you could remake the Gal Vorbak, minus the original host.

Does a Daemon retain any of the essence of the host? In Nemesis Spear retains some memories of those he becomes, he's a bit of a unique example though.

Slaanesh-Devotee wrote:

Captaintyrius wrote:

There is only 1 splinter group of Word Bearers who fell to one chaos power over all the others and thats the Sanctified who fell to worshipping Khorne instead of all the gods. The Word Bearers as a legion worship Chaos Undivided or in another time the entire Chaos Pantheon this is why cult troops make no sense for them.

What do you think Entire Chaos Pantheon means exactly? Most uses of the word would imply that they worship all the various gods of the pantheon, which leaves plenty of room for some small groups that get more worked up over one good or another at some point.

Hell, because they don't feel the need to fully turn themselves over to one of the gods, perhaps they manage to even swap around gods! Maybe these Wordbearers that relsih the Blood God eventually find that the stimulation becomes something more and find themselves turning towards Slaanesh, before finally accepting their inevitable death and worshipping Grandfather Nurgle.

This is why I think there needs to be some sort of alternative Tzeentchian cult unit. Thousand Sons are very deliberately a particular chapter and their rules reflect a very specific event that happened to them. But Plaguemarines, Berserkers and Noisemarines are all potentially members of a variety of chapters that have been drawn together by their worship of the gods.

I suppose the sorceror that comes with the Automatons is the Tzeentchian from the Chapter and he has cursed some of his fellows into becoming his automatons to aid his sorcery? Still don't like it much...

Emphasizing one god over another is very frowned upon, especially if it can negatively impact future dealings with a rival deity's agents. That's simply not their creed.

As for alternative Tzeentchian cult, I guess you could use Possessed (i.e. mutants).

The Word Bearers as a whole worship Chaos Undivided, but there is no reason at all why some of them might not fall under the sway of one god more than another and stray into what is technically "cult" status. Such Legionnaires are unlikely to advance far in the Word Bearer ranks, but it makes sense for them to occur.

I would feel absolutely fine facing a Word Bearer list that featured Khorne Berserkers, rationalising that they are no doubt former Raptors or Legionnaires who, over the thousands of years of melee combat they've seen, have started to enjoy it just a little too much.

Similarly, a Word Bearer's Sorcerer (and there's no reason for them not to have these) that has made a dozen pacts with Daemons of Tzeentch could well end up serving Tzeentch above the other gods.



I would recommend picking up the Dark Apostle/Dark Disciple/Dark Creed trilogy of Word Bearer novels. They are great fun, present the Word Bearers in a very interesting way (very different to your standard Chaos depiction) and will give you loads of ideas.

Im almost postitive they have assault marines, i just read Fear to Tread and i believe there were attacks by Word Bearer assault marines, ill try to find out for sure

Someone mentioned they were told that the word bearer omnibus was possibly bad or to stay away. I have just started reading it and i must say i'm hooked, i'm a slow reader but in 20 minutes i had read 35 pages, and thats incredible imo, the only books that i haven't been able to put down were the night lords trilogy and i was told this word bears trilogy rivaled it, and i gotta say its very well done so far. I also didn't like the portrayal of of the word bearers in battle for the abyss but my opinion was flipped now.

Just my take on the Word Bearers, but I think both sides are right here. While the Word Bearers worship Chaos Undivided, and therefore all four gods, they do look down upon those who give themselves over to one god. For instance, a squad of havocs could have the mark of Nurgle, or raptors could tend towards Slaanesh or Khorne-that's totally fine. But when units begin to forget the other gods and begin overindulging themself with one of the chaotic powers(Khorne Berserkers, Plague Marines), they no longer have a place in the Word Bearers legion. And the Word Bearers had some assault marines in TFH, but I'm not sure what kind of emphasis they have on them.

Also, the Gal Vorbak was really just a name for the first unit of possessed. All the original guys have long since died, but I could easily see the legion maintaining squads of other possessed marines that are also called "Gal Vorbak".

As for Kor Phaeron and Erebus, they're just punks. Really.