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Why does angron not have a compelling story like lorgar, or Horus? Is there no depth beyond kill maim burn

Not really, no.

Khorne's a real basic god of violence, warfare and bloodshed.

Yeah, but the men behind the bloodshed are 3d....
so why no story?
I am not pleased with the simplicity of the legion. They could be cool as hell. Pun intended

 Psienesis wrote:
Not really, no.

Khorne's a real basic god of violence, warfare and bloodshed.

Isn't there another (often ignored) side of Khorne though, emphasizing honour and not killing the innocent/unarmed?

not really. he seems to kill anyone no matter what from what I've read.

Butchers Nails and Betrayer are actually just EXACTLY what you want.

Butcher's nails and betrayer are by and far the best hh books this far, angron gets character, lorgar stops being a Nancy, kharn is amazing, erebus gets....well go and read the bloody book ( see what I did there?? Bloody...angron....yeah I went there)

The man behind the bloodshed is a man who really, really likes bloodshed. The guy was basically lobotomized into a rage-monster, he isn't really a super deep or complicated character; it's hard to be more than one-dimensional when you're barely capable of reason or emotion. Thinking about killing, maiming, and burning occupies most of the time Angron isn't actively doing those things. He was basically a servant of Khorne from the beginning, and he was probably the most destined to fall of all the primarchs.

 Formosa wrote:
Butcher's nails and betrayer are by and far the best hh books this far, angron gets character, lorgar stops being a Nancy, kharn is amazing, erebus gets....well go and read the bloody book ( see what I did there?? Bloody...angron....yeah I went there)

Lorgar stopped being a nancy a while ago, and Angron's new character is that of a nancy, but okay.

sonicology wrote:

Isn't there another (often ignored) side of Khorne though, emphasizing honour and not killing the innocent/unarmed?

I always like to think so. I recall some stories that mentioned this, admittedly small, aspect of the Wargod's nature. In particular a marine who was saluted by a Khorne Champion for his exceptional skill in combat. An Ultramarine I beleive?

I always thought that Angron was secretly the smartest of the Primarchs. It isn't spelled out anywhere, it's just my own private assessment.

See, I always thought the Primarchs were supposed to be, in addition to super-strong, super-smart. Capable of tactical reasoning and planning dozens of moves in advance, which explains part of why they were so successful. (And part of why their wars with each other were so bloody.)

One of the biggest dangers a Primarch could face would be another Primarch, capable of seeing through his brother's strategy. But Angron has the way around that.

If you attack your enemy hard enough, fast enough, and with enough raw, brutal aggression, then he will have to abandon whatever plans he has in motion and respond in kind. When you take it to the kill-or-be-killed level, and his only possible escape is to kill you first, then you have forced him to fight using your strategy. And, if you've been doing this for as long as Angron has, then the advantage is yours, since you are a master with this tactic and he but a novice.

Some people see Angron as nothing more than a raging, foolish brute, but I posit that he has found a genius of simplicity that has worked out pretty well for him so far.

Because their backstory is that the legion is a bunch of psychopathic chainaxe murderers led by the biggest one of all.

Angron had brain surgery to make him a killer, it made him crazy, so he did it to the rest of his legion too.


It is one dimensional but there really is only so much you can do with what you have here.


There may be depth, but only in that Angron's is really a sad story. One of the Emperor's sons, the finest warriors ever to grace the stars, a pinnicle of genetic engineering meant to bring a bright future for humanity. Reduced to a bloodthirsty loony. Quite sad actually.

 Jimsolo wrote:
I always thought that Angron was secretly the smartest of the Primarchs. It isn't spelled out anywhere, it's just my own private assessment.

Sadly, the exact opposite is pretty clearly spelled out in the fluff. The Butchers Nails in his brain drove him ever more insane and aggressive, causing him to crave violence and removing pretty much all normal thoughts and emotions. He could only really feel anything when he was murderizing. While your version might have made for a more interesting and compelling character for stories, Angron's character serves his purpose as a he was doomed to a tragic downfall the moment the Butchers Nails were implanted.

i think its also hard to flesh out the Primarchs whose backstories are just ripped off of Historical characters. Angron is Spartacus, with the Big E yanking him out before his army was destroyed. Same could be said for the Khan, another primarch who got stiffed in backstory.

sonicology wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
Not really, no.

Khorne's a real basic god of violence, warfare and bloodshed.

Isn't there another (often ignored) side of Khorne though, emphasizing honour and not killing the innocent/unarmed?

Khorne cares not from whence the blood flows.

While he may look more-favorably on those who kill other great warriors... he doesn't really care. Blood is blood, skulls are skulls.

When angron talks about the emprah, you can empathize with him, the big e screwed up massively with angron, he wasn't just a one sided killing machine, he had hopes and dreams and aspired like any other primarch, but the nails and the emperors betrayal of him ended any hope that he might of had.

I have to get my hands on Betrayer. Looks so good!

It's also worth remembering that while you might not find Angron as complex and interesting a character as some of the other Primarchs, he does have a genuine tragic side. Leaving aside the entire Butcher's Nails (which itself is very sad), he organizes a slave revolt against the brutal oppressors that are in power, against all odds. At the height of that revolt, when the stakes are at their highest, and he will either die with his men, or free them from a lifetime of slavery, the Emperor removes him from the planet.

His blood-brothers, comrades-in-arms, are left without their leader, and left bereft of hope, as his Father denies him the victory (or at least, the struggle) which he has been devoted to for his whole life. He doesn't get to save his people, or establish a new order, or set himself up as a protector, or anything. Unlike almost every other primarch, his immediate legacy to his home world is negligible, through no fault of his own.

Really, there's no Primarch that had more direct reason to revolt than Angron.

Right behind angron is lorgar. Imho.

Lorgar was forced to bow to the emperor because lorgar cared about the crusade so much he saw the emperor as a deity (ironically)

Betrayer gives so much character to a 1D character that it is simply must-read.



Personally, Betrayer spells my thoughts out. Angron is the best and the worst. He kills, burns, maims and repeats because he wants to but he is forced to want to. He could have been beautiful, like Fulgrim or Sanguinius. He could have been noble, like Dorn of Horus. He could have been master of superior tactical ability, like Guilliman or Alpharius. He could have been driven, like Lorgar, brave like the Lion, he could have been a defender of justice like Kurze was, or honourable like Khan.

But he fell short. Just the wrong planet, wrong day, wrong moment in time. Like a shooting star gone awry. Instead of shooting off into space, it crashes to Earth. And Angrom fell farthest, crashing into the ground, sliding over its surface, grinding away untill only its core, brittle and ready to break, is left. Ready the shatter with the right touch. Just something waiting to smash it and release it to oblivion.

But instead it was picked up, packed in a glass case, balanced on a knife edge along with a thousand other such pieces of different meteorites while its former parts are crushed underfoot. Teetering. Waiting to fall a shatter. But held in place by a hand.


Eventually, when the hand is removed and it is about to strike the ground, another hand catches it. Prevents the death so long awaited. But it does not lock it up in glass. No, it puts this core of meteorite in a solid granite box, and throws it at things. The box is lined with bubble wrap so the core will never break, traped forever in a fate it should never have had.

 Deadshot wrote:
Betrayer gives so much character to a 1D character that it is simply must-read.

Oh man, I must get a copy of this. I just started the HH series, in hopes of developing a rich backstory for my WE army, but I may just skip ahead to the good stuff.

In one way, it's kind of unfortunate that there isn't more fluff out there about the legion, but that also allows you to be more creative with your army's story without worrying about contradicting the official narrative. I feel that the World Eaters have plenty of opportunity for depth and color besides the typical BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD. Perhaps a piece of an Astartes' psyche remains, despite the constant drone of the Butcher's Nails. Some might kill because they must, not because they want to. That's really tragic, and lends some pathos to what appears on the surface to be the wargaming equivalent of a bad death metal band.

Betrayer literally covers everything you ask for.

That story of Angron, could it be argued that Tzeentch, the weaver of fate intended Angron to follow this path?

Also, I know the blood god loves well...... blood but is it just the followers of Khorne who respect honour as most Khornish daemons dont bother with who they kill, except for Skulltaker I suppose.

 Slaanesh-Devotee wrote:

sonicology wrote:

Isn't there another (often ignored) side of Khorne though, emphasizing honour and not killing the innocent/unarmed?

I always like to think so. I recall some stories that mentioned this, admittedly small, aspect of the Wargod's nature. In particular a marine who was saluted by a Khorne Champion for his exceptional skill in combat. An Ultramarine I beleive?

That's more an aspect of that one warrior rather than the Blood God himself. The Ruinous Powers are rather... broad... in the application and manner of their worship. If one particular guy prefers to fight only other warriors in Khorne's name, the Blood God is cool with that. The Blood God is equally cool with some wanton Hive-butcher who makes Ed Gein look like a Power Puff Girl.

Da Butcha wrote:
It's also worth remembering that while you might not find Angron as complex and interesting a character as some of the other Primarchs, he does have a genuine tragic side. Leaving aside the entire Butcher's Nails (which itself is very sad), he organizes a slave revolt against the brutal oppressors that are in power, against all odds. At the height of that revolt, when the stakes are at their highest, and he will either die with his men, or free them from a lifetime of slavery, the Emperor removes him from the planet.

His blood-brothers, comrades-in-arms, are left without their leader, and left bereft of hope, as his Father denies him the victory (or at least, the struggle) which he has been devoted to for his whole life. He doesn't get to save his people, or establish a new order, or set himself up as a protector, or anything. Unlike almost every other primarch, his immediate legacy to his home world is negligible, through no fault of his own.

Really, there's no Primarch that had more direct reason to revolt than Angron.

They had no chance of victory, it was to be their last strand.

Omegus:
The point is that angron would have rather stood by his men, slaughtered soooooo many of his enemies, and died a glorious death on the field, than serve the emperor in any way shape or form.

 Slaanesh-Devotee wrote:

sonicology wrote:

Isn't there another (often ignored) side of Khorne though, emphasizing honour and not killing the innocent/unarmed?

I always like to think so. I recall some stories that mentioned this, admittedly small, aspect of the Wargod's nature. In particular a marine who was saluted by a Khorne Champion for his exceptional skill in combat. An Ultramarine I beleive?

Harkan Ironfist wrote:"I salute you! For though our path has been long and bloody, you have served our Lord with unflinching courage and the honour of true warriors. We have seen many fall today and must remember, even as we die, that our blood too is welcome..."

 Slaanesh-Devotee wrote:
I always like to think so. I recall some stories that mentioned this, admittedly small, aspect of the Wargod's nature. In particular a marine who was saluted by a Khorne Champion for his exceptional skill in combat. An Ultramarine I beleive?

Ulrik The Slayer, Wolf Priest of the Space Wolves
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Ulric#.USzgyTDFXDs

Ulrik won renown during the First War for Armageddon, while serving as a Wolf Guard in the Great Company of Wolf Lord Kruger. When his Company stormed head-on into the attacking Chaos Space Marines of the World Eaters, Lord Kruger fell in combat with three hulking Khorne Berserkers. Though he had lost his own weapon, Ulrik leapt to defend his dying Lord, slaying the three Berserkers in a bloody melee. His battle fury was so awe-inspiring that the Chaos Lord of the World Eaters felt compelled to offer a grim salute