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I think BA dreadnoughts with a frag cannon and heavy flamed can do really well in a droppod. Lets say 30 ork boys I come down and Woosh 3 templates of doom plus you got the dwml
Mathhammer!
Lets say the frag cannon can hit 9 boys as well as the heavy flamed
Heavy flamer: 9 divided by 3, 6 wounds so 24 boys left
Double frag cannon: 18 divided by 5 2.75 or something so 15 wounds and about 3 rending in there
So 24 minus 3 = 21 then 15 divided by ork saves = not many made jk about 3 so another 12 orks dead that's 8 left and the death wing gets about 6 hits and 3s to wound so 4 wounds and then saves maybe about one so another 3 orks dead that's 9 left
Now a morale check. If thy have a power klaw and have the guts to assault it well that's another story

But you see that's 21 orks dead! In one pod imagine what two could do any comments

Expect 3-6 for template weapons - Depending on scatter and spacing.

9 per template is a bit crazy.

Rending templates, OTOH, are not too bad whichever way you shake them.

Just make sure to be careful of the FAQ on Wound Allocation, since they won't be able to flame anything outside of the range of the templates.

I love the Fragioso, but I think you're overestimating their potential body count a hair. Still, that 30 ork unit would surely feel the sting. Plus, even if they want to charge and get those klaw hits in, they're taking another 4 wounds or so on overwatch. Then 5s to glance from the nob mean you'll probably fight on a few turns longer. If you could challenge the whole unit would be gone the next turn and you'd be able to start again, pulping the lootaz or whomever.

The great thing about it is largely AV13. That means most mobs can't touch it unless there's a fist or klaw in there somewhere...so the unit is either bogged down or has to leg it, leaving you free for other targets.

The silly FAQ means you need to keep the Storm bolter so that the two frag cannon templates can kill models outside of 8".

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:
The silly FAQ means you need to keep the Storm bolter so that the two frag cannon templates can kill models outside of 8".

This. I've been saying that the FAQ ruling wasn't a big deal, but for this particular unit it actually matters.

Even with a melta-gun the kill range is 12", so I can't imagine TOO many models that should have died will remain alive because of the FAQs new limitations. I suppose if the drop pod deviates a crazy amount in a horrible direction it may matter, but now that the dread can disembark 6", he should be able to get to a spot that'll cause some damage no matter what.

I've been thinking of using a Furioso with a melta/frag cannon/grappling gun combo to take out back-line armor. Two S8 shots plus two S6 rending shots sounds tasty!

I've used it before and it is exceptional at taking out lightly armored targets, especially ones that rely on cover to survive. It also makes an excellent backfield harassment unit as it can drop down, hopefully get some hits on their heavy support and then they have to deal with an av13 s10 fist coming their way.
The weakness of course is the range and the risk of being immobilized. It always makes me have a sad face when my Furioso's got immobilized.

Immobilized walkers are pitiful, indeed.

I'm so sorry mr. soul grinder, so souls shall be ground today. it seems somebody shot you with a lascannon, and took off your legs and face-gun. Have fun sitting, ignored, in the middle of the field, while the plaguebearers use you as cover.

I still run frag cannon, heavy flamer, because I often need the torrent, or I can just put the templates down to cover different parts of the squad.

Razerous wrote:
Expect 3-6 for template weapons - Depending on scatter and spacing.

9 per template is a bit crazy.

Rending templates, OTOH, are not too bad whichever way you shake them.

Just purchase him a hunter killer missile, now that max amount of guys he can kill is limited by the range of the hunter killer he fires on the drop.

Isn't the range restriction on a weapon by weapon basis? I mean, otherwise, my magna grapple gives my flamers a 12" reach?

As an Eldar player, i can say, that it is annoyingly good...byebye 2+ cover save Pathfinders...

Yes, I have fragged many pathfinders with fragnoughts.

Martel732 wrote:
Isn't the range restriction on a weapon by weapon basis? I mean, otherwise, my magna grapple gives my flamers a 12" reach?

That's exactly what the FAQ says. Your Wound Pool can be allocated out to the longest range gun you fired, regardless of the ranges of all the weapons that added wounds to the pool. It's a nerf to Grey Knights and damn near every xenos army, but a nice buff to bolter armed Tactical Marines and particularly Sternguard who remembered to bring along 1 heavy bolter.

Oh, then this changes basically nothing for a fragnought as long as you have a magnagrapple.

I'm all about nerfs to GK. Can we get some more? And do the Space Wolves while you are at it.

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Isn't the range restriction on a weapon by weapon basis? I mean, otherwise, my magna grapple gives my flamers a 12" reach?

That's exactly what the FAQ says. Your Wound Pool can be allocated out to the longest range gun you fired, regardless of the ranges of all the weapons that added wounds to the pool. It's a nerf to Grey Knights and damn near every xenos army, but a nice buff to bolter armed Tactical Marines and particularly Sternguard who remembered to bring along 1 heavy bolter.

Although I agree with this, I can't imagine this is what they intended, and it's just a poorly written FAQ. It's my hope that they re-write it to better explain what is actually intended, but I'm not holding my breath.

Maybe GW could try writing down *specifically* what they mean from time to time.

Martel732 wrote:
Oh, then this changes basically nothing for a fragnought as long as you have a magnagrapple.

I'm all about nerfs to GK. Can we get some more? And do the Space Wolves while you are at it.

It does change something slightly. The shooting model's range is determined based on the range of the weapon he fired, so you do have to forgo firing the heavy flamer to actually fire the magnagrapple and get the credit for its range. It doesn't have to wound, or even hit, but it does have to be fired.

I hate this FAQ item so much.

I thought walkers could fire everything?

Brain fart. Was thinking of an old edition when they only got 2 guns for moving.

They can, so you will fire heavy flamer, frag cannon and magna grapple, as long as the manga grapple hits and wounds you are fine, if it doesnt then you are again restricted on the range as the magna grapple is not in the wound pool. same with the melta gun this is where the storm bolter has its advantage (two shots over one for the others)

Oh my. What a headache.

I'm not sure we should analyze too deeply the terrible and vague wording on this FAQ (or the one on psyker/reserves order of operations). There will likely be a new update in a couple weeks when Deamons comes out and we just need to hope GW amend these. Then we can debate the poor wording in those!

I'm not debating really. I'm just lamenting their bad verbiage to begin with. As long as my opponent goes by the same thing, I'll go with whatever interpretation of this FAQ.

The magnagrapple doesn't have to wound, or even hit. It just has to be fired, since the range that is checked is done before firing.

Slighty-off topic but I'd rather ask here than make another thread. So if I had an ork Drive by bbq aimed at some blood angels, It will only work if I fired another weapon with longer range I.E big shoota?

Well it will hit every guy under the templates regardless. It can hit extra guys if you get a single big shoota wound.