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Do you think they have a film industry in the grimdark, say other than for propganda.

There are numerous references in BL books to serial dramas (usually some Inquisitor dismissing some petty heretics as "nothing but idiots imitating holovid villains" and thus not worth the resources to kill or imprison), porn, and sporting events. So yeah, lot's of in-universe pop-culture. It's just not worth exploring in depth because that would be inanely meta, and the normal 40k fluff revolves around warzones or cloak-and-dagger stuff, not how civilians waste their free time.

Some of the Imperium's most watched movies are:
-Sisters gone wild. A move about Sisters of Battle expirementing with plasma guns.
-Purge the Heretic. A movie proclaimning how awesome Marines are.
-The mutant, the witch, and the wardrobe. After the best selling book.


If only I was more creative, I could have pulled of a good joke with this.

I can't.

Personally ... no, I don't think so. At least not on a larger scale. Some of the more liberal worlds may have something like it, but on a grand scale and from what I've read about how an Imperial civilian's daily life looks like, there just isn't much room for personal entertainment. Not to mention the cost of the equipment necessary to enjoy it. "Holovids"? Stuff like personal holoprojectors may be commonplace in Star Wars, but it doesn't exactly fit into my vision of grimdark civvies toiling away in 18-hour-shifts working for an oppressive society that just kinda happened to forget how to build 90% of the stuff they once had. My interpretation focuses on the dystopian - stuff like low-resolution black/white TV used chiefly for propaganda, giant loudspeaker towers barking inspirational speeches and Ecclesiarchy-approved hymns, things like that.

Certainly there's some grey area in-between the dystopian and actual entertainment (such as freelancing puppeteers or musicians playing in the streets), but "public entertainment" makes me think more of stuff like this:

 Lynata wrote:
Personally ... no, I don't think so. At least not on a larger scale. Some of the more liberal worlds may have something like it, but on a grand scale and from what I've read about how an Imperial civilian's daily life looks like, there just isn't much room for personal entertainment. Not to mention the cost of the equipment necessary to enjoy it. "Holovids"? Stuff like personal holoprojectors may be commonplace in Star Wars, but it doesn't exactly fit into my vision of grimdark civvies toiling away in 18-hour-shifts working for an oppressive society that just kinda happened to forget how to build 90% of the stuff they once had. My interpretation focuses on the dystopian - stuff like low-resolution black/white TV used chiefly for propaganda, giant loudspeaker towers barking inspirational speeches and Ecclesiarchy-approved hymns, things like that.

Certainly there's some grey area in-between the dystopian and actual entertainment (such as freelancing puppeteers or musicians playing in the streets), but "public entertainment" makes me think more of stuff like this:

That pole dancer must have been moving her feet fast.

 Lynata wrote:
Personally ... no, I don't think so. At least not on a larger scale. Some of the more liberal worlds may have something like it, but on a grand scale and from what I've read about how an Imperial civilian's daily life looks like, there just isn't much room for personal entertainment. Not to mention the cost of the equipment necessary to enjoy it. "Holovids"? Stuff like personal holoprojectors may be commonplace in Star Wars, but it doesn't exactly fit into my vision of grimdark civvies toiling away in 18-hour-shifts working for an oppressive society that just kinda happened to forget how to build 90% of the stuff they once had. My interpretation focuses on the dystopian - stuff like low-resolution black/white TV used chiefly for propaganda, giant loudspeaker towers barking inspirational speeches and Ecclesiarchy-approved hymns, things like that.

Certainly there's some grey area in-between the dystopian and actual entertainment (such as freelancing puppeteers or musicians playing in the streets), but "public entertainment" makes me think more of stuff like this:

The Imperium is an oppressive regime but it isn't that bad, it all depends on the world that you go to; the Ecclesiarchy itself is rather diverse as well and missionaries and such would adjust the religion accordingly to planet

Also its confirmed in the fluff that things like holoprojectors do exist; with the level of grimdark you're going at, you might as well say civilians aren't allowed to breath without permission. Also in the Gaunt's ghost novels, things such as strip clubs do exist as well so its not like Medievel time where sex was essentially illegal outside of marriage.

The Imperium isn't North Korea, its more like Judge Dredd or Blade Runner

Prostitution is the world's oldest profession. While the average medieval village doesn't have a whore house (the population is too small to support one), you can bet that they existed in the larger cities. The Imperium is much the same way. It's a short step from prostitution to strip clubs.

Holovids and holo-projectors exist, to be sure, but unless you live on the Forgeworld where they're produced, you're unlikely to own one as the average citizen of the Imperium.

The Imperium isn't North Korea, its more like Judge Dredd or Blade Runner

Guess what's illegal in Judge Dredd? Everything.

Psienesis wrote:Prostitution is the world's oldest profession. While the average medieval village doesn't have a whore house (the population is too small to support one), you can bet that they existed in the larger cities.

Absolutely. And even the average village may have had a tavern wench providing "services".
But I still wouldn't expect something like porn vids broadcast via government-sanctioned public entertainment networks. Just doesn't swing with what I understand the Ecclesiarchy to preach, regardless of the religious variances between different dioceses.

PresidentOfAsia wrote:Also its confirmed in the fluff that things like holoprojectors do exist

Well ... the fluff cannot really "confirm" much as it keeps contradicting itself. The novels are nothing but the interpretations of their various individual authors - and since you mentioned it in connection to Inquisitor stories, it kinda sounds like something from what people call the "Abnettverse". The existence of this term alone should speak volumes.

Don't get me wrong here, Abnett's ideas (or those of other freelancers writing for 40k) are just as viable as GW Codex fluff. But at the same time they can (and often do) contradict each other, and as per the explanations of Gav Thorpe and BL's Marc Gascoigne neither should be regarded as some sort of gospel that represents an irrefutable truth. It's up to you, the individual player, to pick and choose which of the many aspects in the various material you want to roll with. I choose to ignore a supposed widespread usage of "holovids" - especially for entertainment purposes.

 Lynata wrote:
Personally ... no, I don't think so. At least not on a larger scale. Some of the more liberal worlds may have something like it, but on a grand scale and from what I've read about how an Imperial civilian's daily life looks like, there just isn't much room for personal entertainment. Not to mention the cost of the equipment necessary to enjoy it. "Holovids"? Stuff like personal holoprojectors may be commonplace in Star Wars, but it doesn't exactly fit into my vision of grimdark civvies toiling away in 18-hour-shifts working for an oppressive society that just kinda happened to forget how to build 90% of the stuff they once had. My interpretation focuses on the dystopian - stuff like low-resolution black/white TV used chiefly for propaganda, giant loudspeaker towers barking inspirational speeches and Ecclesiarchy-approved hymns, things like that.

Remember that most people on Earth today lead rather miserable and deprived existences, yet there are ridiculously profitable entertainment industries nonetheless. When you're talking about a civilization with a population approaching twenty quadrillion, even if only one in a million could afford it, that's still a ridiculously huge population. There's also the fact that "holo-vids" likely doesn't mean holographic projection, but is instead derived from the storage medium of "holo-discs", which would presumably be discs that store data in a holographic format, to preserve the general integrity of the data in the event of partial damage.

But yeah, multiple BL sources for widespread pop-cultural entertainment in at least three mediums (video, music, and ebooks). There's not really that much fluff regarding the daily lives of citizens, since most of the fluff revolves around space marines and whatnot, and the rest is all active warzones and/or Xenos aside from a small handful of books about the Inquisition, and the few Guard books that involve more than just warzones (the Ciaphas Cain series is littered with references to in-universe sporting events, crime dramas, and action movies about guard or space marines).

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:Remember that most people on Earth today lead rather miserable and deprived existences, yet there are ridiculously profitable entertainment industries nonetheless. When you're talking about a civilization with a population approaching twenty quadrillion, even if only one in a million could afford it, that's still a ridiculously huge population.

A million spread across the entirety of Imperial space? Concerning how interstellar communication works, I doubt that this offers much grounds for this supposed entertainment industry.
Besides, as a noble, who needs movies when he or she can have real people do whatever they want?

Note also that I'm not dismissing the possibility of exceptions - given the extreme degree of variance between Imperial worlds it is in fact rather likely that there are some where it's a bit different. I'm just talking about what I deem to be a certain "standard in misery", following the general tone of Grim Darkness™ the various descriptions seek to evoke.

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:There's also the fact that "holo-vids" likely doesn't mean holographic projection, but is instead derived from the storage medium of "holo-discs", which would presumably be discs that store data in a holographic format, to preserve the general integrity of the data in the event of partial damage.

Okay, first off, it's not a "fact" when it's just something you assume. Secondly, "holo-vid" is a fairly common term in sci-fi, and I for one only know it in combination with holographic projections (coincidentally, I just read about this in a Battletech book just a few hours ago). I assume that the novels incorporating such elements do it the same way - feel free to correct me on this, though!

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:But yeah, multiple BL sources for widespread pop-cultural entertainment in at least three mediums (video, music, and ebooks). There's not really that much fluff regarding the daily lives of citizens, since most of the fluff revolves around space marines and whatnot, and the rest is all active warzones and/or Xenos aside from a small handful of books about the Inquisition, and the few Guard books that involve more than just warzones (the Ciaphas Cain series is littered with references to in-universe sporting events, crime dramas, and action movies about guard or space marines).

There actually are bits of fluff about civilian daily lives here and there where a book attempts to convey a general feeling for the setting. The rulebooks in particular tend to offer a few sentences in this regard.
Those are also the sources of fluff that I have chosen to follow, rather than the many contradictory interpretations in the various novels. The Cain books in particular appear fairly ... dissonant.
Not saying you or anyone else cannot or should not go by what these novels tell ya, just pointing out that it may be something completely different than what the GW studio itself is printing.

Here is an example of what I am talking about. This is a complete page from the 5E rulebook (p.108 to be precise) describing life in the Imperium. I am omitting nothing:

"The Imperium is home to countless billions of lost souls. The teeming masses of humanity throng the stars, but few have time to appreciate the majesty of the heavens. For the greater part of the human race, their only concern is a desperate struggle for survival.

All servants of the Imperium have a vocation that defies their existence, often alloted before they are even born. Pallid citizens toil day and night at thankless and futile tasks forced upon them by uncaring superiors, blind to the terrible truths that threaten Mankind from the void. Oblivious, they sacrifice their dreams on the altar of false hope, giving their all for the continueing survival of a decaying civilisation that cares not if they thrive or if they are ground to dust.

In the hab-complexes of the civilised worlds, the shuffle of sore-ravaged feet and the scratch of thermoquil upon vellum is punctuated by the thunder of distant war. Hunchbacked factotums and aged lickspittles slave endlessly under the unforgiving vigilance of Judicar-Prelates and Titheproctor Superians. Only a few hours' sleep is permitted each night, and even that is plagued by the grind of constant industry, for the incessant wars of the Imperium demand a heavy price. Drooling Ideosavants trade gibberish with Pendanticum, Dataslave and Stasis Clerk in a babel tongue which none truly understand. Even death is no escape; the remains of the faithful are reincarnated as servo-skulls so that they might serve the Imperium for eternity.

In the streets outside the hab-blocks and manufactorums, the Arbitrators enforce their unforgiving rule upon the desperate and the homeless. Feral children fight over the dead flesh of the fallen, their struggles lit only by flickering luminas set into crumbling masonry. Scapegoats, lepers, and pilgrims press and push in great queues that will last a lifetime, desperate in their quests for absolution they will never receive. Through this sickly gruel of flesh stride the privileged few, untouched by disease or the ravages of acidic rain. It is they who maintain the status quo for their own hidden ends, they who guide humanity itself. Some are pure of intent, some embody the corruption at the heart of the Imperium, but one thing is true for all - they care not for the fate of the common man."

Yup. Sounds real pleasant. I'm sure that after a day of toiling away they just go home, kick up their feet and watch some movies.
Read the planetary descriptions if you want to get an idea. Do you think the Tallarn tribes have much free time in their caves? The malnourished people of Valhalla in their vast underground cities? The people of Krieg on their nuked world? The hivers of Necromunda? The list goes on. I can already hear people try the counter-argument of those examples just being extremes thrown at us by GW to convey a feeling of dystopia and despair, and they'd be right. Yet, it's still the only thing GW ever mentioned, and from the few BL novels I have read, a lot of them are extremely "tame" in comparison, almost treating 40k like any other sci-fi setting and dismissing many of its darker aspects in favour of cliché tech such as "holo-vids". It may well be that some worlds in the Imperium actually look like that, but at least according to GW's idea of the setting, the majority of humans would seem to regard their "desperate struggle for survival" as more important than fancy vid series.

Just my two bolt shells, of course.

Think Starship Troopers. Every film, tv show, and so on, always puts the Imperium in a good light. Would you like to know more?

Lol

More primal entertainments are probably controlled though; I doubt anyone with, ahem, fetishes would escape Arbites attention. Unless you're a noble...damn aristocrats.

Would you like to know more?

Catgirls - they're legal now in 6th Edition

I imagine that the average citizen is too busy shovelling dried faeces fuel pellets into the slag refinery furnaces for twelve hours a day and dying to get much recreation time.

Do try to recall that the average human on earth today is either a half-starved peasant farmer in some (often war-torn) backwater, or a half-starved laborer or squatter in some slum. The underclass will always be miserable and overworked, and larger than all the other classes combined (speaking in the broadest sphere, not highly localized demographics), and is quite clearly what that melodramatic purple prose was going on about.

When you're talking about life on feral or death worlds, you're really setting the bar in a strange place - you might as well be proclaiming that there's no TV on tyranid bio-ship; its absence in those circumstances is rather to be expected. It should also be noted that with regards to Necromunda hivers: an attempted census of the planet gave up on reaching one billion before even getting out of the upper hive of one of the thousand hives on the surface, while the area most of the Necromunda source material concerns itself with is the underhive (which while awesome, being one of the most detailed yet expansive settings in the wider canon of 40k, is also not exactly the place you'd look to find any sort of high-tech entertainment industry).

The only holographic projectors in the setting are either in mechanicus hands (and they have far more interesting display and networking technology, too), in the upper levels of military command, or on the bridge of some ships; considering the fluff establishing their rarity is from the same authors, and often the same books, as mention "holovids", I think it's a safe bet that the "holo" bit refers to a file format or storage medium ("holographic" in data terms meaning a manner of storing data in a massively redundant way, such that damage to one part only reduces the resolution, without comprimising the completeness of the data as a whole), not a display system.

If there is such a thing as "televised entertainment" on a given Hive or Imperial World, you would be better off looking to Orwell's 1984 than any depiction of the modern world.

Religion was once said to be the opiate of the masses, and it was, and then we replaced it with basic cable television. Given the monocratic nature of the Imperium, it is easy to see why these would be blended together on worlds that feature the infrastructure to support it.

The television available on such worlds is 100% state-controlled. Its programming, which encompasses every hour of every day, is a mix of propaganda films, industry output reports, religious programming, religious theatricals (think "Masterpiece Theater" with an early-60s BBC vibe), mandatory exercise programs, PSAs, two-minute hates, and near-constant updates of wars that may not be actually happening, but the Imperium is definitely winning.

Also, the television works both ways. Not only can you sit in your hab and watch it, but an Arbites Investigator can sit at his console and watch you... even when it's not turned on. It can also transmit sounds from your hab to their listening stations. Sure hope you didn't mutter any blasphemies, heresies or complaints about your job while in the "safety" of your own hab-block, let alone plan any actual crimes.