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I quite enjoyed the Infantry and Vehicles aspect of Battletech, although it was always very clear that Mechs' rules the battlefield. Integrating multiple tricks and tactics with different types of fighting units could lead to victory using fewer resources, which is realistically desirable.
The rules mention a max of 30% of other resources, and I would tend to agree.
I assume infantry would be extremely vulnerable to, say, a volley of missiles, whereas a laZ0r hit could vaporize some soldiers, but be too much of a narrow beam to incapacitate them fast enough, for instance. For static defence, I'd still bet on tanks and infantry, at the very least for the backlines or less strategic areas.
GamesWorkshop wrote: And I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you meddling kids!
Mathieu Raymond wrote: I quite enjoyed the Infantry and Vehicles aspect of Battletech, although it was always very clear that Mechs' rules the battlefield.
I'd disagree and hope that Mecha Front allows Infantry but doesn't make them too effective.
Infantry and Tanks in BattleTech were extremely effective - in many cases more effective than a similarly pointed (combat value, battle value, bv2) mech, especially once Battlesuits came into the game.
Mechs only ruled the field if you stayed with the fluff that everyone wanted to be a MechWarrior - which is what my group did after one of us took nothing but infantry and tanks in a largeish battle and dominated the field.
My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals.
Oh wow. Our experiences differ. A friend of mine was good at combined arms, but never in a way you describe.
I think I gave up the game (stupid real life...) before Battlesuits became a big thing. Just to be sure, we're not talking Elementals, but the slightly bigger ones, like in the books, right?
I wouldn't worry about that, ultimately, though. Paulson seems to have a good vision for his game and it is mecha-centric. He even says so in the rules.
GamesWorkshop wrote: And I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you meddling kids!
The different flavors of Elementals and the Inner Sphere versions of them. But Infantry were still strong before that.
The amount of long range firepower you can get in vehicles is in-fricking-sane in BTech. I'm not saying that MF will fall into the same rut - indeed I have confidence that it won't. I'm just saying that before adding combined arms elements in things need to be looked at.
My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals.
I checked my mail about 20 minutes ago and skipped all the way back to my house I was so happy.
While I love posting up new art this is by far my favorite type of Monday update as I have a brand new print to show off. I quickly pressed stuff together with sticky-tac for the photos.
(Had to repose him several times as the heat from the shop lamp I use for photos makes the sticky-tac lose its grip pretty quickly). This is the raw master a couple panels and the cockpit window will need a very light touch of sanding but everything came out great. I can't wait to get him molded and have some resin casts on hand
The variant parts are being sent in for printing this week and if all goes well I'll have everything ready for pre-order within two weeks.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/07/29 21:14:27
Paulson Games parts are now at:
www.RedDogMinis.com
That subscription service would be a great idea. End of the month? Oh look, I have enough put away for a Lynx. Rough end of the year with no gaming to relieve the pressure? How about a new Kodiak?
GamesWorkshop wrote: And I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you meddling kids!
Lol, The Mech of the Month Club does have a nice ring to it. Although I'm just not sure I'm organized enough to keep a club running on a strict monthly timing.
JoshInJapan wrote: Will you be offering other weapon options for the Raptor as well?
Yes both mecha will have parts done for two more variants, so they'll each have 3 configurations available.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/07/29 21:02:24
Paulson Games parts are now at:
www.RedDogMinis.com
I'd like a complete line of war machines eventually including power armour, armoured vehicles, helicopters, hover jets and more.
One thing I would hope is that the physics engine be realistic enough that armoured vehicles of a similar tonnage to the mecha have superior armour and firepower. Though the mecha be graced with some compensentory agility.
Here is a mini batrep, hidden by spoilers for those who don't want to read. It is follow by the meat of my review, which is to be taken as constructive criticism, not an attack on Paulson. I want this game to succeed more than anything.
Spoiler:
First off, I had made a cheat sheet of the tables and most common modifiers. Indispensible when you are trying to game quick. I didn't format it, so not pretty, but very effective.
We chose the following forces: I played NorAm with two alpha Raptors, two alpha Lynxes and a beta Wolverine (FTW!!!!) Ironbovin played with two alpha Goshawks, two alpha Ospreys and an Alpha BlackWolf. We deployed the full DPM Entire Town in a Box in a loose buildings formation, with tree copses in the middle and all around, with a more industrial section to one side. We deployed opposite, about 6 to 10 inches from the table edge. N scale buildings need to be at least four storeys high to hide more than a light mecha. Three storeys do a fine job with those.
We played around a bit with movement at first, doing no more than ranging shots at each other, feeling the terrain for the first and second turn.
By turn three, his Blackwolf suffered an engine failure, as did one of my Lynxes. Turn four he lost a Goshawk after I had pummeled it ridiculously for three turns, but he downed my second Lynx and my Wolverine. With only light mecha left and his two medium mecha almost fresh, I gave him the game.
We had a few rules quandaries, but essentially the book-keeping was light, will be made better with proper mech cards and a good cheat sheet (à la Battletech 2nd Edition, that sucker had everything!)
Here are our impressions, some stuff we had questions about and our suggestions. I tried to put them in order of importance:
0)We didn't use anything else than rookie pilots, it influences my comments on initiative and edge.
1)Initiative. We need this to change. Bad. By rolling everyone publicly, a savvy player can totally game the system and there is little tactical decision left to players, it becomes lockstep. It was fresh, we tried it, and we didn't like it. We thought of a way to combine "reactionnary fire" with an initiative system that randomizes activation order but not so much as to make it hard to keep tabs on, and lets players be tactical. We're taking a page from Two Fat Lardies, with a deck of cards representing all units (one card per unit). We even keep the variable turn length by having the "Commercial break" card that can shake things up a bit. First mecha is revealed. He declares how many actions he will perform, between 1 and 3(N). Any mecha can interrup this turn by performing, immediately before this mecha, N-1 action. Once these have been resolved, the original mecha can then "do his thang." When the activation cards are revealed for mecha having interrupted an activation, they are ignored for this turn.
2)By having the potential to call up to three actions, we see this as supplanting the need for an edge pool. I used edge to engage in reactionnary fire twice during the game (we weren't sure if -1d was applied to reactionnary fire or not, so we did). The rest of the time, we would use edge to grant our units a third action 90% of the time, and it was very often to duck behind cover. We feel that with the initiative mechanic proposed above, it would become an extra layer for comparatively little gain.
3)We love the concept of sensors, and we thought of more ways to make use of this. a)we were foggy if target locks remain until the end of the turn or until the issuing mecha's next activation. b)What if the issuing mecha or target break LOS, does the target lock remain? c)what is the difference exactly between a target lock and a sensor dice? Can anyone at any point in the turn claim the sensor dice, but the target lock needs to have the mecha itself enter LOS of the target? d)we'd love to see sensor points spent to counter a target lock or a sensor point usage. An ECM if you will. Sensors could become EW points instead. d)Ironbovin would have loved to use a target lock or a sensor point to be used for a called shot. Either as a general sensor dice expenditure (I think this is too powerful) or requiring a LOS at some point during the turn by the sensor-sporting mecha. The BlackWolf would then really become a hot commodity, which he felt was not that hot.
4)Missiles. The rules need to clarify if they are auto-hit or not. The bold seems to say auto-hit, but then the paragraph discusses to-hit dice and such. If you need to roll to-hit, he feels they are not worth it. I tend to agree.
5)I didn't find a definition for a "Rapid" weapon in the document. Oops. I'm curious though.
6)He wanted me to write this down verbatim: Make regular damage faster and critical damage slower. My interpretation is this: regular damage came in very slowly, usually two or three points of damage per action, even with my linked quad-autocannons on my Wolverine. Critical damage, however, was relatively easy to achieve and tended to incapacitate mecha either completely, or not at all. Out of five dead mecha, two were engine shut downs, often on their first critical hit. His BlackWolf had almost no scratched paint, but its engine was busted. Another 2 were cockpit hits after engine damage did nothing at all. He proposed to randomize critical damage on the hit location rather than automatically get your engine slammed right away. We also think that engine damage should be a recurring roll every turn, so you might be able to restart the damn thing, but it might shut down on you again. We also noticed that there is no 7-9 Engine Damage result on the chart. oopsie!
7)Leg actuator damage might be even better if it was half-movement, so there is a penalty to having it damaged. You can still do a "full move distance" but at the cost of shooting.
8)Ironbovin suggests we could maybe tweek damage potential between classes of mecha, because right now it really feels like light ones, unless they are very lucky, can't do much to a heavier mecha fast enough to survive the encounter. (Although I will temper his assessment by saying that he still used his very well by circling my force and getting shots at my blind sides often enough)
9)Y U 8 LaZ0rs so much? He felt like the laser was the red-headed step-child of the weapons groups. He felt his BlackWolf was a bit emasculated with them, and that for a coherent beam of light that can literally reach anywhere instantly, they suck. I'll admit I didn't even fire my Raptors' lasers, I used the machine guns instead. Moar dice felt like better odds. Even with the modifiers.
10)We didn't feel like "infinite range" was an issue. -2d modifier is more than enough to make fire wildly inaccurate at best.
11)There needs to be a little bit more oomph to buildings, otherwise they fall like so many houses of cards. Had we realized this earlier, make a killing field would have been child's play. Especially using edge points to do so.
Don't get a negative impression, we got the feeling this game can be a lot of fun, and we really tried to pick it apart as much as possible. I listened to Rob's podcast today and it was fresh in my mind (as much as I could remember). I need a lot more terrain, and much higher terrain. With what is coming in the mail, I should have almost enough buildings, but styrofoam hills (that I gave away...) are a necessity.
You'll notice, maybe, that I upgraded by destroids with Paulson weapons. Those will be used for a small Tau auxiliary to my IG, hence the sticky-tacked bases.
Thanks for the critique and feedback. I typed up a bunch of replies for the various questions, it's posted up on the yahoo groups page. This type of stuff is a major help for helping close some of the holes and figure out where revisions need to be made.
As for infantry vehicles etc there's a place in the game, but its certainly not center stage as its a game meant to be focused on mecha. There's plenty of other options for playing soldier games. I've had many past experiences with Battletech where the game was really slowed down and soured by mobs of vehicles and infantry. I don't mind some mixed forces but I've had plenty of games where I had a mech forces square off against a huge horde of savannah masters and it makes for a very dull game. If I wanted to play micro armor games I would have been doing that, I play mech games because of stompy robots, not to use hovercraft or power armor.
I'm not aiming to make the next "Joe Grunt" soldier game, so In short don't place overly high expectations on the non-mecha elements.
Paulson Games parts are now at:
www.RedDogMinis.com
Been looking at the goshawk, and one thing keeps bothering me. It's the ankle joint. It's he same circle with three little lines on it that the raptor has. I guess I'm weird because I would think that different factions would have different parts, but I guess their is the possibility that multiple upper powers would buy ankle joints from one producer. It's a simple I'd for me, I can shave the tiny lines off the Russian ones that I get. It's just when I looked at it in the pic I thought "oh a second American mech".
Also, could you put links into your signature for he mechafront.com site and he yahoo groups, might help newer people to the forum find their way here.
LOL, Theo your mind is an amazing place, never change.-camkierhi 9/19/13
I cant believe theo is right.. damn. -comradepanda 9/26/13
None of the strange ideas we had about you involved your sexual orientation..........-Monkeytroll 12/10/13
I'd put you on ignore for that comment, if I could...Alpharius 2/11/14
Paulson: after playing the game, I agree about the infantry and vehicles. The mecha keep it tidy and fast, and I get the feeling this is the way to go with the game.
What the community could help you achieve though is a set of scenarios to offer in the main rulebook. King of the Hill is fine for playtesting, and intro games, but it'll feel, to me, like other games again. We can really increase your playtesting pool and offer fun, different ways of playing. Infantry and vehicles could be set pieces in a scenario. This would be measured not against the cost of the opposing mecha, but against the scenario difficulty level; as a result they would remain "costless" so people wouldn't easily be able to run a table full of Savannah Masters or power armoured elementals.
Theophony: I caught on that at first too, but my immediate reaction was the opposite. It made it much more realistic. Coming up with walker tech must be quite a leap, and some parts are just the best that tech can be, so it got spread around the world. They must use ther same screws, eh?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh and when we compared your mecha to WizKids' BattleMechs... it wasn't even close. The big, cartoony hands, I don't seem to remember those in my days of BT (Sure, they had hands, but not like that). Ironbovin left with a couple of Paulson Games weapons to try and man up his mechs a bit.
First hit is free...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/07/31 12:55:16
GamesWorkshop wrote: And I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you meddling kids!
First, is it ok if we address you by your first name?
Second. I have a hankering to do a bit of converting. Let's say someone had access to more sentinels that he'd know what to do with them, and wanted to convert them into Mecha Front minis...
Is there still a goal to have all the guns and mechas priced out by the time the rules are done, so we can customize, say, a mercenary force?
I've been waiting for the past three codices to make Sentinels cool and viable. Tired of waiting.
GamesWorkshop wrote: And I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you meddling kids!
Theophony: I caught on that at first too, but my immediate reaction was the opposite. It made it much more realistic. Coming up with walker tech must be quite a leap, and some parts are just the best that tech can be, so it got spread around the world. They must use ther same screws, eh?
I'm fine with people calling me either Jon or Paulson, it's "Mr Paulson" that feels weird
The construction rules will have point values for each chasis and weapon/equipment option so you'll be able build models out of whatever spare stuff you have around. I have a bunch of dougram and macross models that I'll like be using for stand-ins during playtesting.
As for the ankle servos, there's going to be some shared parts between mecha because like most real world tech individual components don't tend to vary all that much although the combined whole may look very differant. For example tank treads tend to look and function the same regardless of if they are US, Russian or even Iraqi. Or if you compare truck tires almost anywhere in the world you'll see a central hub with exposed lug nuts. The design of the driver cab or their cargo bed may look very differant but the mechanicals are all very simular.
They will ship no later than the end of August (if I'm able to manage they'll ship out sooner). Everything will ship in the order they are recieved so the first orders in are the first to be shipped.
Also for anyone who previously orderd with the first batch of Raptors, you'll be getting an email shortly with a discount code as a special thank you for your help in supporting the line.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2013/08/04 19:28:00
Paulson Games parts are now at:
www.RedDogMinis.com