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You can drill yourself?

I'd pay 5$ to see that.

Everyone has to have a talent to fall back on

 Hulksmash wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 paulson games wrote:
I may be able to make small imprints that can at least be used as a center point guide.

I'll double my pledge if you work out how to do this.
And it'd convince me to do 15mm.

I might not double but I think this is a great idea on the 6mm. Even a dip for where to start the drill is perfect honestly. I can drill myself, getting the hold in the right spot without slippage is the major issue

Agreed, if not holes for the magnets, at least imprints to guide the center point where you should drill would be fantastic.

Edit: Well, I just kind of grilled paulson in the comments about shipping . Hopefully, I wasn't too harsh. Just wanted to really dig down on why the already completed models will need to be held until the stretch models (heavies, etc) are completed, particularly in 6mm which will be being cast out-of-house in metal.

I got some good responses and the moral of the story is, there will be only a single wave. This does adjust what I will be using mine for, but I can plan around that. I appreciate knowing now instead of later, at least!

A little less intensity would be admirable, it's not like I'm not like I'm answering questions pretty much every hour or that we have 12 full days left to address that....


Snap firing answering is bad as I need to be consistent in my approach. A backer funded early wave may have been an option but I needed to do a bit of research. Now it's no long an option as I'm not going to reverse my comment.

Would the 6mm guys be good to mix with Dropzone Commander? I saw the pic with the DZC terrain, was that 15mm or 6mm?

 paulson games wrote:
A backer funded early wave may have been an option but I needed to do a bit of research. Now it's no long an option as I'm not going to reverse my comment.

That's an odd stance to take... people are being very agreeable and if you say "I was wrong, it turns out that it is an option!" then I'm sure we'd all love you for it. Also, part of the benefit of being a small campaign is being able to be flexible- those words aren't written in stone and adding a benefit to backers is never ever met with a negative reaction (I can give many campaigns for examples of this!).

I'd also like to say, don't see fire where there is none... I'm a fan, asking a question, nothing more . I'd love to see the stuff that is done shipped earlier, of course! You can't ignore the fact that folks also have to plan their hobbying schedule around approximated delivery times... people give tons of slack to tons of small campaigns on this (and I do myself, many many times now) but saying "I can't offer split shipping because I said I wouldn't in an off-the-cuff comment" doesn't make any sense at all!

There are also some new tiers out now, including the Assault Force and a Fire Team, neither of which are messing around, as both contain a Heavy (the latter lacks Lights entirely, for those who wanted a tier that didn't bother with them).

I assume the 12k barrier being broached with get the unlocks noted when PG has time to fire up photoshop and whatnot, presumably I'm just noticing some of the changes going into place perhaps as they're happening?

Looking forward to seeing that 13k mark broken, as we're only about $550 from it happening, if this is proving to be a taste of things to come.

I'd also like to say, given that I was simply asking a question about shipping, I find your reaction a little puzzling... maybe it was just a miscommunication?

Interaction with backers is part of the nature of Kickstarter, and people are going to have questions and suggestions! I was asking because you were very clear that it would be all shipped at once when everything was completed- you didn't say you were still considering it and would clarify further into the campaign (which I would have been happy to wait for an answer on!). I gave examples of the way some other campaigns have approached similar situations not to berate you, but to give you an idea of how you might be able to do something similar.

I appreciate your considering the possibility of shipping waves... and I'd appreciate it even more if you didn't read any bad intent behind my question regarding shipping- it is simply a question, asking if items that are done really have to be held till everything else is... nothing more! I certainly didn't mean it as "intense", and I'm not sure where you got that reading of it. If I'm asking it, it probably means there are a number of others who were wondering about it, too.

Part of what I love about Kickstarter is campaign creators who take on backer feedback... feedback is usually given because people care about a campaign, and not the reverse! And that is the case with mine here (or at least, I would like to think so, and think my backer history can point to that ).

Again, cheers for considering it! If you can't swing it, no worries, but I was really just asking and giving examples as something for you to consider... I don't know how it ended up getting taken as a negative but I did not mean it that way at all, and neither I nor anyone else would hold you to a comment (or even the update you had already made, which prompted my questions) if you were able to work out shipping waves after all.

The issues becomes that flip flopping on stuff becomes a focal point for anyone dissatisfied later on. "Oh you said that... but now offer this" are types of situations I'm trying to avoid.

Even if it might be in favor of the backers I want to make sure my commitments are as accurate as possible. Backers don't need to worry about being sued over loose words, project managers have to take what they agree to into very careful consideration. Not that I'd expect anybody to sink to that level of BS on this KS but it has happened on other projects. There's already one case of a guy being driven into bankruptcy over a single $60 ipad stand offered on KS, all because the world is full of donkey-caves.

I understand that KS is exciting and people get intense about it, but at the same time not every question can be answered immediately especially when there are very direct stabs at aspects/details I can't answer at the drop of a hat. The shipping questions are very sensitive as the pricing point is absolutely crucial, on a small project doing it right lends to the success but if I mishandle the pricing options it can easily turn the entire kickstarter into a loss. (especially since my average past customer base is about 65% international)

It's not stuff I expect anyone else to take into consideration, but if I don't answer in detail immediately maybe it's best to chill for a bit?

But I was talking about (as I clarified) backers paying for their own shipping...

I also asked based on your update that already said you would only consider a single shipping wave. I just wanted to offer up examples of how you might be able to split it based on other campaigns I've been a part of... Dreamforge is a good example, where backers could themselves pay for split shipping. I can't imagine if it'd all been held till a single shipping wave! In the long run, this really helps as some fulfillment can happen even while other things are still WIP.

I really think you're misreading my comments as "intense" when I am just making a suggestion based on something you already said in an update... again, I appreciate your considering if you are able to do something in regard to shipping waves based on models that are already completed, and those that are yet to be started. If you're worried about being sued because you say you'll try to do earlier shipping on already completed model orders and are not able to... I think you might be thinking of a backer that is not, well, me or most of us here, and maybe reading into my comments things that truly aren't there!

I understand not wanting to commit to things, of course... but I'm trying to help you here... not anything else . Sorry if there was a misunderstanding or the way I phrased something that led you to think otherwise.

Also, sent you a PM, hope that clears up any misunderstanding

Curious about the shipping as well. Having an option to pay for shipping ahead of the mass wave would be fantastic. The short delivery time on this project was what caused me to pledge, extending that further is less desirable and may make me wait until these figures hit retail.

I genuinely appreciate the notification about the extended delivery time ahead of the campaign closing. Wish more campaigns did that.

Exactly, DarkTraveler! I knew there were others wondering the same thing

And I feel exactly the same way- I appreciate the advance notice about the delay, but at the same time, if there's some way for those pledging for already completed models to get them around the original timeframe ("wave 1") that'd be very Very much appreciated. Nothing more, nothing less! It's just that I backed these models for use for a project in the early fall, so the timeframe does affect what I'd use them for.

Yeah, if the production side can be sorted out, then giving the option would probably be beneficial. Ship out pledges when all the units for that pledge are completed, and if someone wants to split pledges, charge them actual shipping for the extra shipment.

I know you said that didn't fit how you did production, but if that can be worked around, nobody will be annoyed at you providing more options for the campaign.

Very upsetting that your not giving us what we want....a chance to later complain about flip flopping . You obviously are new to the kickstarter game.

The problem with early shipping (even if it is feasible, and funded voluntary by the backer) is that some other backers may get cheesed off

either just from a 'I've not got mine, why has he got his' perspective (which you even see during normal shipping of a big KS) despite it being stupid

or from a 'I backed before him so I should get priority' perspective (not taking into account when stuff is actually finished)

both could end up souring the comments and potentially end up giving Paulson grief on forums even if he does everything right so he certainly has to give it a lot of thought about risk versus reward

I agree, it definitely requires some thought. However, I would again point to Dreamforge and the waves that things were split up into- everyone knew the full-size Crusader and infantry were done, so they were the first wave. It was well understood that the Mortis wouldn't ship until wave 2, and that unless a backer paid extra for split shipping, they'd have their entire order held until wave 2 shipped.

However, I am just happy that Paulson will be looking into this (I hadn't realized that he would be based on the wording of the update). If the answer is "No", that is fine, I just thought it was worth asking about. Now that he is looking into it I won't bring it up again... but I do think it's evident that others were wondering the same thing, I just expressed it!

The main reason for my asking now was in light of if the campaign had a very strong last week and unlocked the Quads. That would signifcantly shift the fulfillment dates, and so doing a partial fulfillment in the late summer / early fall and a final fulfillment at the end of the year or early 2015 seemed like something worth considering. If it can't be done, it can't be done! But logistically, it's something to look at and consider. Especially because long waits tend to kill the momentum of new games, even in big campaigns, so getting the things that were done out earlier makes sense in that light. You run the risk of dissatisfied backers either way, but from what I've seen the best way to have satisfied backers is good communication... so looking into it and then clearly explaining why it's not possible ("It would disrupt the workflow too much, even if backers paid for their own shipping") would be totally fine.

Even at the extrended date 6-8 months is hardly a long wait for KS product to arrive, even a 12 months delivery time is lightning fast compared to a lot of KS projects. I love his stuff and this isn't to knock Dreamforge at all but what's their stretch in between waves? All of Mark's production and distribution is handled by WGF so all of his time can be devoted to the design process, where I'm split doing all aspects of my company myself (3d/production/distrbution). It's hardly an even or fair comparison as our businesses and offered products are completely different animals.

I also don't think it'll be much of an issue for the game momentum, if they want to play in the meantime the rules will available online as well as printable card stock proxies

I actually agree with regardes to the timeline posted for the heavies, which would make this all kind of moot . I guess I was just thinking ahead to if the quads unlocked, as I wasn't sure what kind of herculean design effort they might require. But I guess we can cross that bridge when we get there

Total Carnage is exactly what I was waiting for, but man... $340... I'll have to think about it.



(I'll probably do it )

I know it's not cheap, but it's also two complete armies with lots of spare upgrade weapons.

If it helps just think about what 12 dreadnoughts from GW or FW would run and it's not so bad



(plus all the 15mm Mecha Front models are much bigger then dreads)

 paulson games wrote:
Even at the extrended date 6-8 months is hardly a long wait for KS product to arrive, even a 12 months delivery time is lightning fast compared to a lot of KS projects.

Getting kicked in the nuts is better than being shot with a gun, but given the choice I'd rather avoid both events.

I think I am going to bail on this. If wave shipping becomes a thing I'll reconsider, but a small campaign that looked to provide quick results now looks like it will turn into every other Kickstarter out there with uncertain fulfillment dates.

Congrats to Paulson Games for having a campaign blossom in such a positive way. You don't need my money and I don't need the hassle of dealing with more Kickstarter delays so good luck to everyone involved!

Well, you should definitely only back projects your certain you want to, but saying "it's turning into every other KS with uncertain fulfillment dates" is unfair.

Many KS's get themselves into trouble promising to triple the product line and double what they're sending to backers, somehow without ever noticing that these expansions might take a bit more time.

PG notifying us that the expansion of his product line will take more time should be something to be applauded.

Not to say you should stick it out despite reservations, I just think associating good business practices in the same breath as the bad ones so many companies exhibit does PG's transparency to the backers a serious disservice.

Quick question, are the 4K/5K and 15K stretch goals applicable to the micro armor size?

Also, it might be a good idea to list the 13K goal right up there after 12K, I think at a glance folks might think there's nothing unlocking until 15K, when there is in fact a heavy mech coming at 13K!! (The mech unlocks are listed at the bottom of the page, unlike the other unlocks, so it might not be clear that there is one coming very soon)

 Forar wrote:
Well, you should definitely only back projects your certain you want to, but saying "it's turning into every other KS with uncertain fulfillment dates" is unfair.

Many KS's get themselves into trouble promising to triple the product line and double what they're sending to backers, somehow without ever noticing that these expansions might take a bit more time.

PG notifying us that the expansion of his product line will take more time should be something to be applauded.

Not to say you should stick it out despite reservations, I just think associating good business practices in the same breath as the bad ones so many companies exhibit does PG's transparency to the backers a serious disservice.

I was waiting for this.

Look, it is my money. I signed on to the campaign because it had a short fulfillment window.

That window now became:

The current delivery estimate is now October-November.

*This may need to be extended further depending on how high funding climbs and if quads are unlocked.

That is rather uncertain in my book.

This isn't a campaign that will miss my $50, and my pulled pledge in no way threatens to derail the campaign. PG's honesty about the increased fulfillment period is great and should be applauded. I did just that. Twice even. But I am now responding to the changing dynamic of the campaign and it is one I no longer want to be a part of. So I reject outright your claim that this is a disservice to PG. If anything it is saving me as a potential customer because PG didn't piss me off with an over-extended Kickstarter (as other companies have done).

So, thanks, but no thanks, Forar.

As I said, I'm not saying you should stick around. A moved delivery date might change RiTides participation as well. Read my post again, I specifically stated that if you didn't feel this was the project for you, then you shouldn't back it. Don't give me your "it's my money" indignation, I never said otherwise.

But this is something the KS community should embrace.

Not this bullgak about delivering twice as much stuff in the same time.

Palladium Books, I'm looking at you.

Creators should be honest with their backers. Would you rather he have just left it at August and watched the updates roll in as the months went by, nothing a slipping delivery target?

Shouldn't we applaud creators actually planning ahead and recognizing that an expanded product line will probably take longer than the very core releases?

Yup. I think its awesome that Paulson is totally up front.



I also totally get what DT was saying. For him, part of the draw was the quick nature of delivery. That is no longer a draw. Strikes me as a really sane approach, and one I wish I'd taken in previous projects.

What would you like me do for Paulson Games Forar?

I already thanked the company for revealing this change in the schedule. It just so happens to be exactly the kind of change that I wasn't interested in so unfortunately I am taking my money with me and walking. That doesn't change the fact that what PG did was a good thing and I am certain the lack of bad PR that would normally come with delays will be avoided as backers now have plenty of opportunity to weigh their options before the campaign ends. Plus, this set a precedent. People can now point to this campaign and say, "See? That is how schedule changes should be handled."

All good things in my opinion. I don't understand where your concern lies.

Yep, I agree that it's great that Paulson was upfront, and it's much better to manage those expectations now! To be clear, I am staying in the campaign no matter what

But it's better to be clear about it now and only have folks onboard who are willing to wait. As DarkTraveler says, this transparency on Paulson's part actually keeps DarkTraveler from being unhappy with the campaign and preserves him as a later potential customer.

But I'm here to stay

I would have dropped RRT in a heartbeat if they'd been honest in their campaign and be much happier for it. Definitely applaud PG on his communication.

I like the new pledge tiers, but I am disturbed by the lack of quads in them. I am right on the cusp of upping my pledge, bu I want my Tiger and Kodiak!

Also, I'm OK with one shipping wave in Autumn, FWIW.