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Recently I've gotten the itch to start fielding experiements of artillery vehicles just for fun since I've been working hard on my kreig army and I wanted to share a few thoughts and hopefully get some additional input in how to run a proper artillery park now a days.

Overall tactics - I tend to like a bastion if I'm just running 1-3 tanks as I can hide them decently well if they are barrage and the 2 sticking off the side to claim a 3+ cover from fortification obscuring sight. I've generally not found the points to slap cammo cloaks or even hard top on them but this has worked decently enough

If I'm running bigger squadrons like 2+ squads of 2 tanks, I've gone for an aegis with big blobs of guardsmen out front and around for deep strike and outflank protection.

On smaller games where I've only had 1-2 artillery pieces in total, I've just hid them behind ruins cause I have no points to spare and they are still fire magnets.

In almost all the scenarios above, I've deployed them in something of a refused flank position as range is not a big deal to me and I want to try and avoid getting shot back if at all possible by deploying 2nd and hiding in a corner. When forced to deploy first, I tend to leave at least some firing lanes towards to closest deployment edge for my opponent which is something the bastion does really well.

To complement the above, I generally take the vendetta like most folks do but I tend to stick some vets onborard or a spare infantry platoon just for some mobility in the list. I tend to go infantry squads over mech vets for more area denial and spread out the cover saves along with assault bubble wrap unless I'm doing GK allies where by I depend more on warp quake and coteaz. I've also done some space wolf allies where the librarian buffs the barrage squad of tanks and this has been pretty damn amazing. A scatter dice has 2 hits out of 6 sides so you are looking at 33% chance to hit which is similar to bs 2 if you think about it. Rerollable makes it up to 55.56% to hit which is usually a bit higher as your scatter distance will probably hit something anyway.

Onto the units -

Basilisk - I've run these again way in the corner most times and found them to be pretty average. Anything out in the open is nicely shredded and they are relatively cheaper than other pieces but I've found them to be less than super as alot of things get cover saves even in the open at range now and knowing I have these makes people either close fast with something to within the 36' min range which on a normal table is not that hard. Great at annoying people's back lines but not very useful vs terminators or the like. So far less than really useful in my opinion. I rate it a C but probably cause I'm expecting too much out of this thing. Probably really good on apoc games though as the range is insane

Medusa - on normal sized tables I've not had too much problem with the range on the guns. It's meant for high armor tarets like land raiders and tarminators which with proper positioning at deployment, you shouldn't have too much problem predicting where they will go and will be in range often by turn 2. The upgrade to bastion breacher shells is a tough call. I like the increased range but large pie plates tend to scare alot more people. I've generally had most folk's anti-tank fire focused on the medusas as they are a really big threat to most so I tend to try and find ways to get it a 2+ cover by having camo on it along with fortification or bolstered ruins saves. This way it lets the rest of my units get free hits in. I do place the medusa into the line of fire to mostly use it as a static fire magnet so this may be somewhat contrary to other methods. It also cannot fire barrage so this is unfortunately necessary anyway. Planning around this with other support fire weapons that may be more squishy like other arty or even draw fire away from DK's shunting forward has been my favorite strat to use with these guys. Every once in a while, it gets to fire back too and when it lands, things tend to die alot lol.

Colossus - I hate not having a model for this thing but other than that I actually really like this thing. Ignore cover on an AP3 weapon that wounds on 2's vs MEQ is pretty damn good. With divination buffs, I hit over 50% of the time directly and I'm usually clipping at least 2-3 guys even with some drift on it. While I like the multiple barrage rules in some ways, I tend to see a lot of MSU so I'm not able to usually get more than one pie plate on what I want. Devestating against blobs of IG or orks and I've taken out big swaths of necrons too. Some people dislike it as it doesn't have much armor pen qualities on it but with the meta changed to alot less transports I've liked this thing alot for digging marines out of objectives. Having a lower minimal range has let me fire this more often as well. I love the ignore cover rule especially as too many things are getting area terrain and great saves in the open.

Griffon - I've tried to like this thing and it is dirt cheap so in smaller games I tend to try one but again my local meta sees more small squads so I don't tend to get much benefit from attaching this thing to my basilisks or colossus units. I do see a fair bit of xenos 4+ amor saves so it does have uses but it is a rare day that I find them out of area terrain of some sort. I see it more as a harrassment weapon to be honest. I'd love to hear more opinions on this

Manticore - Maybe people are getting better or building better lists around here and tabling is rather rare I dunno but I tend to have games go well into 5-6th turns and I really dislike the ammo limit on this thing. The str 10 is great vs a lot of stuff but marines still getting their 3+ save as well as having no real armor pen on the damage table usually sees me stripping hullpoints more than completely destroying vehicles with it. I've got a soft spot from 5th edition with this rocket but not as pleased with it in 6th. The multiple barrage rules at least tend to help me a bit here at least as I get a lot of board coverage if I get lucky 3 rockets and as I tend not to buff this in any way, the drift generally clips quite a few things.

Deathstrike - I've only ever used it in one game for lol's so I have no idea how it would really function. It got glanced to death by turn 2 so I never even got to shoot it. Not enough to form an opinion but on paper it seems horrible for the points as lot of people build good redundency or have good invul saves now a days (looking at you DA 4++ bubble)

Favorite compositions - either basilisk or colossus or more often a griffon to hide behind a bastion squadroned with a medusa that is attracting fire. If the medusa dies, I still dont give up a kill point due to squadron rules and since they are not both barrage weapons I tend to get more shots on target but some are invariably wasted as the target priority is different. This will let my infantry built with lascannons receiving orders to kill tanks and the really hidden colossus to mop up infantry.

I'd love to hear what other people are doing with their artillery in 6th edition now a days as I'm still new to this and have only a dozen games or so in with arty units so far and each time was trying different things vs random opponents so kind of hard to form too many opinions.

 sudojoe wrote:

Basilisk - I've run these again way in the corner most times and found them to be pretty average. Anything out in the open is nicely shredded and they are relatively cheaper than other pieces but I've found them to be less than super as alot of things get cover saves even in the open at range now and knowing I have these makes people either close fast with something to within the 36' min range which on a normal table is not that hard. Great at annoying people's back lines but not very useful vs terminators or the like. So far less than really useful in my opinion. I rate it a C but probably cause I'm expecting too much out of this thing. Probably really good on apoc games though as the range is insane

I'm not entirely sure if you know this because of the way you write it, so I'll just quickly point it out. It isn't enough to get within the 36" minimum range of the basilisk because it can still fire indirectly at targets.

You mean fire directly right?

My guns tend to be behind something LOS so they generally never get LOS of much anything.

Inside the minimum range you always fire indirectly, even if you have unobscured direct line of sight to the target. You would just always scatter the full roll of the dice unles a hit is rolled. You trade not being able to shoot inside that minimum, for being able to shoot inside your minimum wihout the ability to reduce the roll by your ballistics skill.

Huh?
I thought inside minimum range you had to have los or you can't fire at your target.

Read Page 34 first bullet point under barrage rules

So in 6th, what's the point of minimum range on a barrage weapon

Awestrn wrote:
So in 6th, what's the point of minimum range on a barrage weapon

You can't use your BS to modify scatter if shooting within the minimum range.

Best thing to do is completely forget everything you know about barrage from 5th, it has all changed. Even the terms like direct and indirect mean different things now.

Well, tactics-wise, it's pretty easy. You deploy them with the most cover you can, and then...

1.) point
2.) click
3.) repeat

As for the qualities of the different one, I agree that the basilisk is ho-hum, but the one thing you get is S9 for low cost. If, depending on how your list building is going, you have the choice of, say, 4 artillery pieces and a few points left over, or 5 basilisks, I think I'd be tempted by the basilisks. Only would work for higher points games or when your points are really in a jam.

Medusas get shot up early, but that's because they're the biggest target, because they're the best artillery piece, and I also like the colossus, but it does suffer from a fatal weakness - vehicles. It can throw hull points off of transports just fine, but once you get to side armor of 12, they're really struggling. I don't know if I'd ever take more than like one of these for that reason.

Another question I keep running into is if I want to get closed top upgrade for my guns. Do you guys really find it useful at all?

Also would like some additional input on the bastion breacher shells. Worth it just for the range benefit to start sniping much eariler (albeit with a smaller template)

It's a tough call.
I mean after hitting with a small blast (which can be rough) its almost a guaranteed pen. Then on a 4+ vehicle explodes which rocks. But I think I prefer a large blast on a bs3 vehicle.

 sudojoe wrote:
Another question I keep running into is if I want to get closed top upgrade for my guns. Do you guys really find it useful at all?

Not really. Artillery is still pretty fragile, especially now that you die after three glances/pens anyway. Maybe if I had some spare points and one Medusa to take it on I'd consider it, but the longer-ranged guns are going to benefit more from camo netting, and taking it on multiple guns eats up too many points.

Also would like some additional input on the bastion breacher shells. Worth it just for the range benefit to start sniping much eariler (albeit with a smaller template)

Depends on your intended role.

The BBS Medusa is a powerful tank/fortification killer, but not all that effective against anything else.

The standard Medusa is less effective against AV 14, but still good enough against light/medium vehicles and a major threat to heavy infantry (especially multi-wound death stars).

So you need to look at the rest of your list and what you already have, compare it to your expected opponents, and decide whether it's more important to deal with heavy tanks and fortifications or elite infantry.

The current list I got going is essentially bastion as a "bunker" for the fire base with Medusa hiding behind the AV 14 and acting as a big fire magnet with cammo squadroned to a griffon behind the bastion directly to deny kill point/hold objectives (not sure this is entirely wise but hey it's what I'm trying this week lol)

The anti-tank role is shared in part by divination long fangs and platoon squads with las cannons in it. I don't have alot of different targets I can point at each turn but what ever I do tends to go up nicely. (yes, I have 2 rune priests one of which usually has JAWS. I generally lack points for more than 1 power at 1500's)

Additional anti-tank is covered by vendettas x2

I got also 1 colossus hidden usually (behind the bastion as well but further back) trying to pick off the other MEQ. Mostly depending on my lasguns for better or worse to hopefully wipe hordes (FRFSRF + divination is pretty damn good too)

For mobility, I only have a 5 man squad of grey hunters (foot slog it up the side and all they have is a plasma gun) and 1 vets squad (usually grav chute out of one of the vendettas)

Everything else is a giant fire base park. Suffice it to say, nightfighting is one thing this list is horribly weak on. I don't have too many saerchlights and trying to squeeze in a sacrifical chimera or two to hopefully balance that part out.

A note on odds and scatter weapons:

You state a base of 33% to hit, given the nature of the scatter die. I don't think you are giving your scatter weapons enough value.

Your ballistic skill of 3 modifies the scatter odds as well. The diameter of the blast marker also modifies the odds another bit for every inch of radius (as you could still hit your target if the template is still above some part of the base). For large blast markers which have a radius of 2.5 inches this means given the right circumstances a large blast template hits a good deal of the time.

 Haeslich wrote:
Your ballistic skill of 3 modifies the scatter odds another 18%. The diameter of the blast marker also modifies the odds another 9% for every inch of radius (as you could still hit your target if the template is still above some part of the base). For large blast markers which have a radius of 2.5 inches this means given the right circumstances a large blast template hits 73% (33 + 18 + 22.5) of the time.

You might want to review how probability works. The probability of each value on a 2D6 role does not change at an even interval.

Fixed.

oh I agree, you'll get a bunch of partial hits and I was only saying exact hits above, the partials may or may not be as much value but are much harder to actually calculate as I can't predict if the arrow will be in favor or not. When indirect firing for barrage, the ballestic skill doesn't matter anyway so an average of 2d6 will probably go some 7' off causing misses most of the time even with a 5' plate but again, not sure how to model the math on arrows and 360' rotation.

All I can predict is the hit marker, that's about it.

This thread has got me thinking - basilisk sound yummy.

How well do two of them do in a squadren (all other HS slots are assumed filled)?

I wouldn't put more than 2 together. IMO it's too risky. But they are effective at why they do.

Awestrn wrote:
I wouldn't put more than 2 together. IMO it's too risky. But they are effective at why they do.

I wouldn't say risky, more just over-kill. You're likely to kill whatever you hit (if you hit) with those 2 templates. A third is just obscene.

In fact with Hull Points, putting 3 together will likely increase the survivability of the squad as a whole, especially as you can move and shoot ordnance now...Unless of course you get hit by 3 meltaguns at once.

Just hate to sink 375 points to a 12 inch scatter.