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Is there any Eldar melee weapons that are AP2? I've been looking for a way to counter those pesky Terminators without D-Cannons, are the only real options Witchblades and Power Swords? And if so, which is the best kill terminators?

Besides using wraithlords and/or the avatar in melee and giving an autarch a power axe eldar are lacking good ap 2 stuffs.

Of course you could always use harlies with kisses, but that's just getting rending.

Eldar are seriously deficient in AP2 but can spam attacks really well. My advice for meleeing terminators is striking scorpions. Volume of attacks is what will carry the day for you. Contrary to the guy above wraithlords are not very effective against terminators given that it has no invul save and they all have power weapons. You can bank on them not being able to wound it enough but your best bet is the Avatar (unless your opponent allows forgeworld and then run a wraithseer). By and large the best advice I have for you is to keep them at a distance and throw all your scatter lasers at them for a turn or until they no longer pose a threat.

I think the entry for Howling Banshees says that they have "Power Weapons" rather than power swords specifically, so you could argue that they are equipped with power axes, but that is probably a bit beardy.

that was FAQ'd to include the executioner, they are all power swords now

 fleet of claw wrote:
...are the only real options Witchblades and Power Swords? And if so, which is the best kill terminators?

At this point yes and I would go with Witchblades by far for the simple wound on a +2 to help spam. Power Swords are otherwise pointless against 2+'s. Though Scorpions do get more attacks and are a bit safer to use and can be more plentiful over Warlocks, they just lack the 4++ if that even helps.

I believe mirror swords are worded as "ignore armor saves" rather than being power weapons. Thus they are sorta AP2

SS and Khandaris have powerfists. Fuegan ignores armor saves.

Craftworld Eldar ap2...

- Yriel's Spear of Twilight has the ignores armour rule. Essentially making it ap2 at initiative 7. Doubly fun because it always wounds on a 2+, and he can detonate his eye once per game as well.

- Fuegan as noted by Exergy, strikes like a MC, so has ap2 from Smash attacks

- Also as noted by Exergy, Karandaras and Striking Scorpion Exarchs can take power fists (Ap2)

- Mirror Swords and powered blades takeable by Banshee and Warp Spider exarchs both have the "ignores armour" rule. So get ap2 at initiative.

-Wraithlords and the Avatar are MC, so ignore armor as well.

- Power Weapons can be taken by Dire Avenger Exarchs, Swooping Hawk Exarchs, Shining Spear Exarchs, and Autarchs. Those power weapons could be Axes for ap2 at I1.

As has been said though, Eldar really shouldn't be looking to deal with ap2 in close combat. Feugan lacks an invulnerable save which makes fighting terminators dangerous especially if he cannot kill the entire squad in one go, this is doubly true for Yriel who gets instant killed by anything as strong as a power maul. I generally just ignore terminators, but if I have to deal with them focus fire and make them take a bunch of armour saves.

Since battle brothers practically means your the same army, why not branch into dark eldar? They have, while not a massive selection, an effective selection of AP2 cc weapons. Incubi are ace going round with 3 AP2 str 4 (5 after a meal ) at WS5 is amazing. Thats a 5++ save on a terminator from each incubi you have, before they strike. Granted if they DO get struck they go down like flies, but what doesnt in the world of LIVING eldar.

The Archon can get his hands on a huskblade which is AP2 and causes insta death, but suffers from classic eldar str 3 syndrome. But it can be mitagated greatly by doom, he will be cutting down 2/3 termies a turn, then saving a 2++ (hopefully :S).

But if you really want termies dead, look no further then a ravager. For pure termie killing fun go triple dissies for 9 BS4 str 5 plasma shots a turn. FUN!

Simple...

Don't fight terminators in melee. Kill them with torrent of fire. There is usually only five of them in a squad so if you make them roll enough dice then they will die.

Put faith in your numerous str. 6 weapons and make those Terminators roll lots of saves.

Farseer14 wrote:Eldar are seriously deficient in AP2 but can spam attacks really well. My advice for meleeing terminators is striking scorpions. Volume of attacks is what will carry the day for you. Contrary to the guy above wraithlords are not very effective against terminators given that it has no invul save and they all have power weapons. You can bank on them not being able to wound it enough but your best bet is the Avatar (unless your opponent allows forgeworld and then run a wraithseer). By and large the best advice I have for you is to keep them at a distance and throw all your scatter lasers at them for a turn or until they no longer pose a threat.

What is the Wraithseer? I have not seen the rules for the Wraithseer so I am not too sure about its strengths or weaknesses :/ I have gotten the impression it is the cross between a Wraithlord and a Farseer, would that be a fair guess? My local hobbystore has no problem with FW, infact they love the stuff, living in NZ we dont see much of that stuff so I can brag a bit about it... lol.

Castiel wrote:I think the entry for Howling Banshees says that they have "Power Weapons" rather than power swords specifically, so you could argue that they are equipped with power axes, but that is probably a bit beardy.

I dont think that would work, (a bit hazy) but I am pretty sure it says in the 40K rulebook the entry for power weapon says that if the codex doesnt define which power weapon it is then choose the one that looks the most like the one on your model, therefore Banshees would be Power Swords.

Exergy wrote:I believe mirror swords are worded as "ignore armor saves" rather than being power weapons. Thus they are sorta AP2

SS and Khandaris have powerfists. Fuegan ignores armor saves.

I am personally against powerfists on eldar models because they are base strength 3 so strength 6(doubled), the greatest strength imo for the eldar in cc is their high initiative, when you dont strike first you get destroyed because they are relatively thin armoured.

warpspider89 wrote:Simple...

Don't fight terminators in melee. Kill them with torrent of fire. There is usually only five of them in a squad so if you make them roll enough dice then they will die.

Speaking of FW models, I have two Warp Hunters which in my last game destroyed 5 termies who, thanks to deep strike formation, fat snuggly under the Aether Rift template.

 fleet of claw wrote:

Farseer14 wrote:Eldar are seriously deficient in AP2 but can spam attacks really well. My advice for meleeing terminators is striking scorpions. Volume of attacks is what will carry the day for you. Contrary to the guy above wraithlords are not very effective against terminators given that it has no invul save and they all have power weapons. You can bank on them not being able to wound it enough but your best bet is the Avatar (unless your opponent allows forgeworld and then run a wraithseer). By and large the best advice I have for you is to keep them at a distance and throw all your scatter lasers at them for a turn or until they no longer pose a threat.

What is the Wraithseer? I have not seen the rules for the Wraithseer so I am not too sure about its strengths or weaknesses :/ I have gotten the impression it is the cross between a Wraithlord and a Farseer, would that be a fair guess? My local hobbystore has no problem with FW, infact they love the stuff, living in NZ we dont see much of that stuff so I can brag a bit about it... lol.

You pretty much got it, a Wraithseer is a Wraithlord with psychic powers that mostly buff wraith constructs, but also have +1WS, +1W, +1A, a 5++ and an be upgraded to carry a D-Cannon. It also Counts as a spirit seer and allows any construct within 12" to worsen the defenders cover save by 1. What detracts from it is its requirement to serve with at least one unit of Wraithguard, takes up an HQ slot but cant be the only HQ and has none of the fun anti/pro psyker gear that a farseer has. It is a core part of my army which is very similar to an Iyanden style list. And the Warp Hunters you mentioned earlier are a great compliment to this style list, though unless you go double FOC they detract from the number of Wraithlords you can take. It makes for a very tough and intimidating list to see a Wraithseer, 2 Wraithlords, and a Warp Hunter on the table at one time.

hmmm im not to sure about wraithlords, due to the lack of invulnerable save, but i like the sound of the Wraithseer

 fleet of claw wrote:
..... I've been looking for a way to counter those pesky Terminators ...... And if so, which is the best kill terminators?

Hit and run.

If you end up in cc with Terms, run away, and lay waste to them with firepower.

But, as mentioned, power weapons for Eldar are scarce. Witchblades aren't any use, and the PWs we do get are AP3 swords.
Certain codex weapons didn't get nerfed, like the Banshee Exarch's weapons (not the axe model, see the FAQ), and the Warp Spider's blades.
Do lances get AP2 on the charge? Keep some Shining Spears around, and call them in when a unit gets charged.

Fire Prisms can fire an AP2 blast?
Starcannons can be expensive, but War Walkers might be needed.

No cc weapon but pathfinders for range

I may be wrong, but isn't the Scorpion's Claw (power fist) for the Striking Scorpion Exarch AP2?

Yes the Scorpions Claw, Mirror Swords, Warp Spider Exarch's Power Blades and Yriel's staff all are AP2 or better but the problem is that they are 1 model against a unit of terminators which (especially if they strike last) makes them almost completely useless in this situation. Granted a Banshee Exarch may take down a terminator in cc but unless the rest of the unit can take down the rest of the terminators, then squish. Something like the Avatar who will almost certainly be able to dish out enough punishment to make them regret attacking, coupled with his 4++ makes him more ideally suited for this role but as most people have said, try not to let yourself get tangled in cc.


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 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Since battle brothers practically means your the same army, why not branch into dark eldar? They have, while not a massive selection, an effective selection of AP2 cc weapons. Incubi are ace going round with 3 AP2 str 4 (5 after a meal ) at WS5 is amazing. Thats a 5++ save on a terminator from each incubi you have, before they strike. Granted if they DO get struck they go down like flies, but what doesnt in the world of LIVING eldar.

The Archon can get his hands on a huskblade which is AP2 and causes insta death, but suffers from classic eldar str 3 syndrome. But it can be mitagated greatly by doom, he will be cutting down 2/3 termies a turn, then saving a 2++ (hopefully :S).

But if you really want termies dead, look no further then a ravager. For pure termie killing fun go triple dissies for 9 BS4 str 5 plasma shots a turn. FUN!

When allies first came out, I ran a lot of DEldar allies though I have stepped back from them quite a bit. But 4 trueborn with darklances/blasters and an Archon with a blast pistol husk blade combo makes for a very effective TEQ killer, Incubi are great, but as stated, fragile. Or you can dump a Raider full of wyches on them. They have a nice cc invul save and will drown most opponents in attacks.it mostly depends on the flow of your main Eldar army that determines what TEQ killing allies you are best suited to take.

Grab a harlequin squad and eldrad.

40A, 27 hit, 4.4 rends, reroll all other, 3.7 additional rends and7 wounds. Total of 8.15 rends and 7 wounds means 6.5 dead terminators. Plus another 1.1 dead from eldrad.

Therefore, before the terminators could even swing at init 4, they have 7.6 dead. Id call that a pretty effective way to kill terminators in melee. You would also have a 5+ inv with rerolls to absorb the ~2 wounds coming back at you from a 10 man squad.

Plus, eldrad+harlequins is pretty much immune to shooting if you play it right. 2+ rerollable cover save. Its 460 points, but i just showed it killing 300 points of terminators in a single round of combat plus that was only two of eldrad's powers and didnt even include pistols or fusion pistols

With SS your only real option is to force saves. DA+Bladestorm+ Doom= profit. Or just run scatter walkers with guide.

 Skinnereal wrote:

 fleet of claw wrote:
..... I've been looking for a way to counter those pesky Terminators ...... And if so, which is the best kill terminators?

Do lances get AP2 on the charge? Keep some Shining Spears around, and call them in when a unit gets charged.

It is my understanding that Laser Lances are AP3 on the charge not AP2.

 zephoid wrote:
Grab a harlequin squad and eldrad.

40A, 27 hit, 4.4 rends, reroll all other, 3.7 additional rends and7 wounds. Total of 8.15 rends and 7 wounds means 6.5 dead terminators. Plus another 1.1 dead from eldrad.

Therefore, before the terminators could even swing at init 4, they have 7.6 dead. Id call that a pretty effective way to kill terminators in melee. You would also have a 5+ inv with rerolls to absorb the ~2 wounds coming back at you from a 10 man squad.

Plus, eldrad+harlequins is pretty much immune to shooting if you play it right. 2+ rerollable cover save. Its 460 points, but i just showed it killing 300 points of terminators in a single round of combat plus that was only two of eldrad's powers and didnt even include pistols or fusion pistols

With SS your only real option is to force saves. DA+Bladestorm+ Doom= profit. Or just run scatter walkers with guide.

So how many men in the harlequin squad? Is it just maxxed out with Harlequins and then the Death jester, shadowseer etc?

I have had some great success with the Bladestorm+Doom combo :3 Killed a 30 man squad of boyz with two squads of DA in one turn

 fleet of claw wrote:

 zephoid wrote:
Grab a harlequin squad and eldrad.

40A, 27 hit, 4.4 rends, reroll all other, 3.7 additional rends and7 wounds. Total of 8.15 rends and 7 wounds means 6.5 dead terminators. Plus another 1.1 dead from eldrad.

Therefore, before the terminators could even swing at init 4, they have 7.6 dead. Id call that a pretty effective way to kill terminators in melee. You would also have a 5+ inv with rerolls to absorb the ~2 wounds coming back at you from a 10 man squad.

Plus, eldrad+harlequins is pretty much immune to shooting if you play it right. 2+ rerollable cover save. Its 460 points, but i just showed it killing 300 points of terminators in a single round of combat plus that was only two of eldrad's powers and didnt even include pistols or fusion pistols

With SS your only real option is to force saves. DA+Bladestorm+ Doom= profit. Or just run scatter walkers with guide.

So how many men in the harlequin squad? Is it just maxxed out with Harlequins and then the Death jester, shadowseer etc?

I have had some great success with the Bladestorm+Doom combo :3 Killed a 30 man squad of boyz with two squads of DA in one turn

It could be 10 strong no death jester & no troop master... Personally, I find that a bit heavy. Usually 7-8 will do the trick. That is, of course, provided that they are used to back up your forces with counter strikes rather than leading the charge.

I stand by the Avatar. You have shown the math and proven the harlies work, but I run a wraithguard heavy list and so both points and elite slots are at a premium and dedicating an HQ to the situation is more worth my while. Granted this also means that I always have something capable of dealing with TEQs, vehicles, and fortifications. However, hey are not my method of choice for dealing with TEQs.

I enjoy FW models out of IA11. I referred to the wraithseer, and the warp hunter was brought up as well, but now ill mention the hornets. For 125pts you get 2 pulse lasers (you can also swap out the weapons for what you feel) on an 11F 11S 10R chassis that has star engines standard. It can either throw out 4 S8 AP2 shots or contest objectives half way across the table. They come in squadrons of 1-3 and cause headaches for every one. They are expensive but well worth the points.

 Farseer14 wrote:
contest objectives half way across the table.

Vehicles aren't Denial units... (Sorry)

Sorry about that, I was under the mistaken belief that vehicles could still contest but still not cap

Avatar sounds like fun, but is he safe all by himself? Is it standard to have some people protecting him?

Hornets work (for Vehicle stand point), i have three and they are feared thro the table and gather fire nicely . Banshees don´t get any play in my 6th ed. games (i proxy them as Harlies). Annoying, that Eldrad doesn´t have Fleet, now i have to chuck a Farseer with the Harlies...

Having the Wraithseer around a Wraithguard troop choice + warlock + Eldrad (or at least a farseer) could give you the following:

3+ armor save, 5+ cover save, 4+ feel no pain. Rerollable.
Unless they are throwing you a vortex grenade or similar, you just show Terminator what true resilience is.

As to deal with Terminator I would suggest soften them up with Fire Dragons melta fire.

Avatar is wonderful, but suffers the problem of being solo in an army that deals with force multiplication. He often just gets shot to death before he can reach the enemy lines. He certainly is useable, but Yriel often gets the job done just as well but survives longer

Wraithwall is terrible. 12" range, no melee potential, and expensive (that unit is ~800 points). Precision shots can take out key parts of the unit (farseer, warlock) and they will have a long period of time to shoot at you before you can get into range. The wraithseer is decent, but suffers the same problems as the avatar. FNP is also a 5+ and is not rerollable as it is not a save.

Fire Dragons are largely a casualty of 6th. They are still as wonderful as ever, but the Wave Serpent simply has too many problems now to waste 130 points on it. Throwing 250 points into a 12/12/10 vehicle with 3 HP is simply asking for it to be blown off the board turn 1.

Hornets are expensive fire platforms with little survivability. Better than the Falcon, but they get shot to death within the first 2 turns/ During that time they can often make their points back, but they are largely hit or miss. Slot also contests with Nightwings, witch are better for 90% of the tasks you have.

warp hunters are insane. Single handedly they bring eldar back into the tournament scene. I bought 2 and have placed in every major tourney in the area since.

Edit: The Harlequin unit almost everyone runs is 10+kisses+ shadowseer (250pts). I often throw in a fusion pistol simply for utility. It has helped me out more than once when my harlequins lack targets and have to go for vehicles.

The "Deliverance" psy power of the Wraithseer grants fnp 4+ as per fw psyker faq update (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/p/Psykers.pdf).

Once they get assaulted they have good chance to stand even against powerfisting terminators, just to wait for the Harlequins to join the party. Not a strategy to rely upon, but Eldar benefits from synergy.