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So I've been playing as Necrons, Dark Angels and Dark Eldar a few times vs my brother's Khornate CSM army. He has a rather annoying Defiler called Rust-Gor that I just can't seem to put down. I can knock HP off it, but he has that rather annoying re-gen roll.

I've used missiles, Gauss cannon, Plasma destroyers (Deimos Predator Executioner), Lascannons, Dark Lances...

Good weapons to use?

Haywire grenades.

Better than most things, but I would prefer to use either something with melta.

For crons, you have the guys with the st.7 weapon, that allows you to roll 2 dice for armour pen- it's close combat weapon.

They also have those voltaic staffs, which have the haywire special rule. I think they glance on 4 +? and they are assault 3 or 4, but the range is 12" only.

If your quick, get as many rear shots for as many penetrating shots as you can. Good luck and don't let the Daemon enging get his "it will not die" roll.

With 4 HP and IWND! , you need to go for the kill vs stripping hull points.
Anything AP1/2 is your first choice, after that you want armorbane or just high S.

Night Scythe = 100 pts (Str 7, averaging 6 hits when shooting)
Stormtek w/ Voltaic Staff = 25 points (Glances on 2+, pen on 6, 4 shots)
x5 warriors = 65 points (Glance on 6's rapid fire)

Laugh as any vehicle in the game goes up in flames

 iGuy91 wrote:
Night Scythe = 100 pts (Str 7, averaging 6 hits when shooting)
Stormtek w/ Voltaic Staff = 25 points (Glances on 2+, pen on 6, 4 shots)
x5 warriors = 65 points (Glance on 6's rapid fire)

Laugh as any vehicle in the game goes up in flames

so that is nearly 200 points, and you cant guarentee to put down the defiler with it's 4HP and 5++. If you dont kill it, it will run up, flame or battlecannon your squad down to size and then finish off in CC.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 angelofvengeance wrote:
So I've been playing as Necrons, Dark Angels and Dark Eldar a few times vs my brother's Khornate CSM army. He has a rather annoying Defiler called Rust-Gor that I just can't seem to put down. I can knock HP off it, but he has that rather annoying re-gen roll.

I've used missiles, Gauss cannon, Plasma destroyers (Deimos Predator Executioner), Lascannons, Dark Lances...

Good weapons to use?

haywire grenades will kill anything with an armor value.

iGuy91 has this right.
Night Scyth does 6 hits, 1 glance 1 pen
10 warriors get 6.7 hits, 1 glance
voltaic gets 2.7 hits, 1.7 glances, .5 pens

So you have 1.5 pens, 3.7 glances Thats at least 3 hp after saves and probably stops the defiler from shooting. Even if the worst case scenario and the defiler survives and can shoot, he can fire a battlecannon and miss half the time or flamer and probably kill 3. If you positioned or made your LOS, the cryptek should be alive and the overwatch fromt he squad stands a good chance of killing the defiler. OK, worst case again and he kills the unit. OK, now you lost 90 points to strip 3 HP off it and stop it from shooting for a turn. Defilers are 180 points also, and you still have a flying gunship that can simply shoot it again and kill it.

 zephoid wrote:
iGuy91 has this right.
Night Scyth does 6 hits, 1 glance 1 pen
10 warriors get 6.7 hits, 1 glance
voltaic gets 2.7 hits, 1.7 glances, .5 pens

So you have 1.5 pens, 3.7 glances Thats at least 3 hp after saves and probably stops the defiler from shooting. Even if the worst case scenario and the defiler survives and can shoot, he can fire a battlecannon and miss half the time or flamer and probably kill 3. If you positioned or made your LOS, the cryptek should be alive and the overwatch fromt he squad stands a good chance of killing the defiler. OK, worst case again and he kills the unit. OK, now you lost 90 points to strip 3 HP off it and stop it from shooting for a turn. Defilers are 180 points also, and you still have a flying gunship that can simply shoot it again and kill it.

how is 1.5 pens (1 pen after the 5++) supposed to stop a Daemon engine from firing? The daemon special rule allows you to ignore stun and shaken easily.
so the flamer kills some, even if it doens't he assaults, no overwatch in return because of the dirge caster. So he wipes the unit in assault.

Sure you still have your Night Scythe, but the defiler is still there. It fired turn 1 and 2, killing stuff. You spent 200 points to try and blow it off the board and you might not be able to do that(3 average HP down means you are just as likely to leave it nearly fully functional as you are blowing it up. Mild damage being very very common) The night scythe now has to turn to avoid going off the board and wont be able to hit the defiler so it will get to fire again at another target likely, unless you invest more into killing it. If there is a warpsmith around, and with IWND you could be facing a full health defiler by the time your night scythe comes around.


Scarabs are better, 20 strong bricks are better, guys with warsythes are better. The drop a volttec isnt a relaible way to kill a defiler, and it has 0% chance of killing it before the defiler can shoot at least once.

Scarabs will get blown away by templates. Helldrakes will insta-gib 2 bases per wound they cause, and they are almost an auto-include in any chaos list
Good luck getting them close to a defiler with a halfway decent Chaos player.

If the suicide squad doesn't do it for you, throw a few more warriors in there, should guarantee a kill, and you might be able to take out another vehicle if they survive.

If you are honestly that worried about a single battle cannon, you need to learn how to deploy better.

yep wyches in venoms with haywires is your answer, otherwise a ravager with dark lances should handle it well, cant speak for other armies

I now have a Razorwing fighter... Think that could help if I can keep it away from my brothers Heldrake long enough...assuming he has it in his list...
Also got a Reaper handy.

 angelofvengeance wrote:
I now have a Razorwing fighter... Think that could help if I can keep it away from my brothers Heldrake long enough...assuming he has it in his list...
Also got a Reaper handy.

if you are having trouble with daemon engines and heldrakes the void raven is a better take than a razorwing

 Exergy wrote:

 angelofvengeance wrote:
I now have a Razorwing fighter... Think that could help if I can keep it away from my brothers Heldrake long enough...assuming he has it in his list...
Also got a Reaper handy.

if you are having trouble with daemon engines and heldrakes the void raven is a better take than a razorwing

True. Still as vulnerable though.

My crons have never had much difficulty taking out armor:

Gauss - Not reliable but effective
Haywire - On average should glace a tank to death
War Scythes - Murder to anything with a Av value and hell even stuff that doesn't
LanceTeks - Cheap S8, I normally use them for +2Sv killers but still good AT.
Wraiths - S6 + D6 + D3 If the dice are on your side you can glance Land Raiders.

The Defiler does out range most of my army but a Battle Cannon on a weak platform isn't that scary, sure you can get upgrades but makes the cost even more bloated

Since it costs so much I am pleased to see it on the table as it means my opponents will have less to spend on the good units and when that happens I normal chat to them and ask if they want to play my fun lists which has stuff like the Monolith and C'tan.

I think I'll just keep my lists secret when playing lol. That way they won't know what to expect.

 angelofvengeance wrote:
I think I'll just keep my lists secret when playing lol. That way they won't know what to expect.

Thats what me and my homie do that play every weekend, no clue which army or build is coming. We still go over what is in the list in detail before the match but no changes to our list. I really enjoy it that way so theres no list tayloring

 angelofvengeance wrote:

 Exergy wrote:

 angelofvengeance wrote:
I now have a Razorwing fighter... Think that could help if I can keep it away from my brothers Heldrake long enough...assuming he has it in his list...
Also got a Reaper handy.

if you are having trouble with daemon engines and heldrakes the void raven is a better take than a razorwing

True. Still as vulnerable though.

AV11 is more survivable than AV10 against most weapons in the game.

with DE haywire grenades are the 'most efficient', you can bugger them over with lances but AV12 is in the little sweet spot where you need a number of shots to take them out...

marines have it better, lascannons meltaguns and the like, or lob a dreadnought/ terminators at it if you are feeling brave...

necrons- lord on a barge should do the trick that warscythe is nasty, necron shooting is a little worse off- those stalkers with that melta weapon (i don't play them btw...) should help. Othwerwise spam them with firepower and you will eventually roll enough 6s

though defilers are a bit naff these days, to be fair the forge/maulerfiends are quite decent

I think defilers might be one of the worst things to try and glance to death. Of course it's possible but they are about as durable as can be to haywire or gauss.

 minigun762 wrote:
I think defilers might be one of the worst things to try and glance to death. Of course it's possible but they are about as durable as can be to haywire or gauss.

very true. These guys are tough to glance to death. The wyches with haywire grenades have the advantage of delivering far more glances than even they can survive, AND they lock them in combat with the 4++ they have they will finish the job if they dont get it first turn.

10 wyches average 5.55 damange results a combat(defilers are WS3). They also get .5 on the charge from throwing one. Sure they might not kill the defiler on the first turn, but the defil cant do much. It needs 4s to hit, 2s to wound and then get through the 4++. The wyches are going to stay there, and the next turn put out similar damange. IWND and a warpsmith cannot recoup that type of damage. Now getting 10 wyches into combat with them can be tough. The heavy flamer will kill some in overwatch and the CSM army is going to shoot them a lot on their way in.

I say all this because the only time I have seen defilers used effectively is in a strange walker mech list. It ran 3 daemon engines, 2 helbrutes, 3 rhino pill boxes, and 2 heldrakes led by a warpsmith. Glancing things to death wasnt a good option.

 Exergy wrote:

 minigun762 wrote:
I think defilers might be one of the worst things to try and glance to death. Of course it's possible but they are about as durable as can be to haywire or gauss.

very true. These guys are tough to glance to death. The wyches with haywire grenades have the advantage of delivering far more glances than even they can survive, AND they lock them in combat with the 4++ they have they will finish the job if they dont get it first turn.

10 wyches average 5.55 damange results a combat(defilers are WS3). They also get .5 on the charge from throwing one. Sure they might not kill the defiler on the first turn, but the defil cant do much. It needs 4s to hit, 2s to wound and then get through the 4++. The wyches are going to stay there, and the next turn put out similar damange. IWND and a warpsmith cannot recoup that type of damage. Now getting 10 wyches into combat with them can be tough. The heavy flamer will kill some in overwatch and the CSM army is going to shoot them a lot on their way in.

I say all this because the only time I have seen defilers used effectively is in a strange walker mech list. It ran 3 daemon engines, 2 helbrutes, 3 rhino pill boxes, and 2 heldrakes led by a warpsmith. Glancing things to death wasnt a good option.

I wouldnt wish that list on anybody, that sounds horrible even bringing lots of melta

Exalbaru wrote:

 Exergy wrote:

 minigun762 wrote:
I think defilers might be one of the worst things to try and glance to death. Of course it's possible but they are about as durable as can be to haywire or gauss.

very true. These guys are tough to glance to death. The wyches with haywire grenades have the advantage of delivering far more glances than even they can survive, AND they lock them in combat with the 4++ they have they will finish the job if they dont get it first turn.

10 wyches average 5.55 damange results a combat(defilers are WS3). They also get .5 on the charge from throwing one. Sure they might not kill the defiler on the first turn, but the defil cant do much. It needs 4s to hit, 2s to wound and then get through the 4++. The wyches are going to stay there, and the next turn put out similar damange. IWND and a warpsmith cannot recoup that type of damage. Now getting 10 wyches into combat with them can be tough. The heavy flamer will kill some in overwatch and the CSM army is going to shoot them a lot on their way in.

I say all this because the only time I have seen defilers used effectively is in a strange walker mech list. It ran 3 daemon engines, 2 helbrutes, 3 rhino pill boxes, and 2 heldrakes led by a warpsmith. Glancing things to death wasnt a good option.

I wouldnt wish that list on anybody, that sounds horrible even bringing lots of melta

It isnt super good, but in the age of foot sloggers and lots of plasma it catches a lot of people as a surprise. Bolters do jack, plasma tends to glance and bounce too much, the o I will just beat them in combat runs the risk of your 1 guy with melta bombs getting picked off and then your krak just glancing a bit. The helbrutes are there with their power scorges to lower your WS, and then the guys in the rhino pill boxes can get out and counter assault. It was fun to watch.

 Exergy wrote:

Exalbaru wrote:

 Exergy wrote:

 minigun762 wrote:
I think defilers might be one of the worst things to try and glance to death. Of course it's possible but they are about as durable as can be to haywire or gauss.

very true. These guys are tough to glance to death. The wyches with haywire grenades have the advantage of delivering far more glances than even they can survive, AND they lock them in combat with the 4++ they have they will finish the job if they dont get it first turn.

10 wyches average 5.55 damange results a combat(defilers are WS3). They also get .5 on the charge from throwing one. Sure they might not kill the defiler on the first turn, but the defil cant do much. It needs 4s to hit, 2s to wound and then get through the 4++. The wyches are going to stay there, and the next turn put out similar damange. IWND and a warpsmith cannot recoup that type of damage. Now getting 10 wyches into combat with them can be tough. The heavy flamer will kill some in overwatch and the CSM army is going to shoot them a lot on their way in.

I say all this because the only time I have seen defilers used effectively is in a strange walker mech list. It ran 3 daemon engines, 2 helbrutes, 3 rhino pill boxes, and 2 heldrakes led by a warpsmith. Glancing things to death wasnt a good option.

I wouldnt wish that list on anybody, that sounds horrible even bringing lots of melta

It isnt super good, but in the age of foot sloggers and lots of plasma it catches a lot of people as a surprise. Bolters do jack, plasma tends to glance and bounce too much, the o I will just beat them in combat runs the risk of your 1 guy with melta bombs getting picked off and then your krak just glancing a bit. The helbrutes are there with their power scorges to lower your WS, and then the guys in the rhino pill boxes can get out and counter assault. It was fun to watch.

The fact is some folks will go footslogging and then bump into a mech list thats been 'tweaked' for 6th and then find out the hard way... i find it amsuing that people automatically assume that everyone ditched the vehicles to go for a walk. At my club at least mech armies are still common so we always pack the weapons to deal with it, though it is revealing when a forgefiend or two go and dominate the shooting phase. Coupled with the fact that folks are trying to brace themselves for the entrance of El Heldrake (ok i'll admit a second one is in the works- no one at my club has tried it yet so i'll take the accusations) it can get messy as they try to kill them, especially if you are sneaky and have taken advantage of cover.

as you say it might not be on the WAAC radar but daemon engines are a nasty threat on the odd occasion its a case of mopping up whats left