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2013/03/07 21:52:24
Subject: 1750 - Jy2's Road to the Bay Area Open GT - Hive Fleet Pandora (Army Pics on p.3, Game #3 on p.5)
jy2 wrote:Anyways, congrats. Despite the 2 early losses, whigwam would come back strong and go on to finish 5-2. I believe he also won Best Daemons? (Liz couldn't win Best Daemons because she won something better. )
I did win Best Daemons (finished 18th overall)...on a technicality. But I'll take it. I would also agree that Daemons needed more variety. I'm as happy as anyone else here to see the two big, blue tentpoles (Flamers and Screamers) supplanted by an all-around better tent. And hey, both of those units are still entirely usable, while not being quite as "spammable." Good deal, I say!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/07 21:53:23
2013/03/07 22:30:28
Subject: 1750 - Jy2's Road to the Bay Area Open GT - Hive Fleet Pandora (Army Pics on p.3, Game #3 on p.5)
Red Corsair wrote: IDK I thought for sure he would have gone or the Biovores and gone up 3-0 turn one due to big guns, not sure I understand wasting expensive screamers on gargoyles (or do these bonus pints only count to BG?) . Your had -1 to his reserve and a comms relay, meaning he should have been able to keep his HQ off the board until turn 4 (maybe he did do this) and DS him conservatively away from the doom and the flayrants, either way it would be close but I think those early 3 points would have really helped, especially being able to deny your BG objective.
Good game though, I think skarbrand is looking better and better for this type of match in the new demons book, considering he can instant death stuff with his MELEE!
edited: Sorry didnt have demon books with me Still liking him more and more though!
The biovores were a little tougher to get to as they were all the ways in the back. However, gargoyles will probably give his daemons more problems. They've got the volume-of-attacks necessary to hurt daemons and they've got the mobility to go after his troops or to react to his assaults. Overall, the gargoyles may be more dangerous than the biovores, at least that was probably how my opponent must have felt.
Can't wait to get the new daemon codex. Will probably get it today and then it's army-list-building we go.
jy2 wrote:Anyways, congrats. Despite the 2 early losses, whigwam would come back strong and go on to finish 5-2. I believe he also won Best Daemons? (Liz couldn't win Best Daemons because she won something better. )
I did win Best Daemons (finished 18th overall)...on a technicality. But I'll take it. I would also agree that Daemons needed more variety. I'm as happy as anyone else here to see the two big, blue tentpoles (Flamers and Screamers) supplanted by an all-around better tent. And hey, both of those units are still entirely usable, while not being quite as "spammable." Good deal, I say!
Yeah, can't wait to try out the new daemons. Originally, I was planning to go back to my grey knights after the BAO, but now it looks like they're going to have to wait. Next up, daemons and my fun-crons.
Heah JY2, just wanted to say thanks for all the Battle Reports. It is one thing for an experienced tournie player to type up a codex review, it is quite another to have someone develop numerous battle reports that details how nids function against numerous opponents.
Now if only we could get Jankith to post up his battle reports as he runs a different army list than yours . That or bribe you to play more matches against his nids ;D.
Budding nid players should also check up on Jifel's battle reports as well.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/07 23:11:45
wyomingfox wrote: Heah JY2, just wanted to say thanks for all the Battle Reports. It is one thing for an experienced tournie player to type up a codex review, it is quite another to have someone develop numerous battle reports that details how nids function against numerous opponents.
Now if only we could get Jankith to post up his battle reports as he runs a different army list than yours . That or bribe you to play more matches against his nids ;D.
Budding nid players should also check up on Jifel's battle reports as well.
Should be quite a few of those in a bit! Think Monday. I can only hope I get them up to Jy2s level though, I admit he's the reason I even started writing Batreps!
@jy2: Great two wins, bummer about that round 1, but I'm glad to hear you took best Nids!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/08 01:15:19
2013/03/08 01:23:59
Subject: 1750 - Jy2's Road to the Bay Area Open GT - Hive Fleet Pandora (Army Pics on p.3, Game #3 on p.5)
jy2 wrote:Anyways, congrats. Despite the 2 early losses, whigwam would come back strong and go on to finish 5-2. I believe he also won Best Daemons? (Liz couldn't win Best Daemons because she won something better. )
I did win Best Daemons (finished 18th overall)...on a technicality. But I'll take it. I would also agree that Daemons needed more variety. I'm as happy as anyone else here to see the two big, blue tentpoles (Flamers and Screamers) supplanted by an all-around better tent. And hey, both of those units are still entirely usable, while not being quite as "spammable." Good deal, I say!
The new daemons look really fun although at first glance it appears they will lack some serious consistency given all the random things that happen on a turn by turn basis.
TK - 2012 40K GT Record 18-5
4th in 2nd bracket Feast of Blades 2012 (IG/SoB); 4th Overall Midwest Massacre (IG/SW); 5th Overall Indy Open (IG); Final 16 Adepticon Open (IG)
TK - 2013 40K GT Record 24-4
Best General Indy Open (Crons/CSM)
Top 5! Bugeater GT (TauDar)
Final 4 Nova Invitational (Eldau)
Best Overall Midwest Massacre (Crons/CSM)
jy2 wrote:Anyways, congrats. Despite the 2 early losses, whigwam would come back strong and go on to finish 5-2. I believe he also won Best Daemons? (Liz couldn't win Best Daemons because she won something better. )
I did win Best Daemons (finished 18th overall)...on a technicality. But I'll take it. I would also agree that Daemons needed more variety. I'm as happy as anyone else here to see the two big, blue tentpoles (Flamers and Screamers) supplanted by an all-around better tent. And hey, both of those units are still entirely usable, while not being quite as "spammable." Good deal, I say!
The new daemons look really fun although at first glance it appears they will lack some serious consistency given all the random things that happen on a turn by turn basis.
Honestly the random element is very much in the players control. Warp storm has almost no impact if you play a mono god or dual god army. The rewards are also fairly simple and are easy if you just want the basic weapon by default. I really don't see them being any more inconsistent then they are now considering they can deploy or deep strike and don't have the wonky demonic assault. I would actually claim they are very much more consistent.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/08 02:41:30
wyomingfox wrote: Heah JY2, just wanted to say thanks for all the Battle Reports. It is one thing for an experienced tournie player to type up a codex review, it is quite another to have someone develop numerous battle reports that details how nids function against numerous opponents.
Now if only we could get Jankith to post up his battle reports as he runs a different army list than yours . That or bribe you to play more matches against his nids ;D.
Budding nid players should also check up on Jifel's battle reports as well.
Thanks. I've played my share of the bugs. Now it's time to give them a little rest. Both Janthkin and I are going to be exploring the new daemons codex (daemons + CSM for Janthkin). But I will continue to write my reports and I will get a game against Kevin again. The bugs, just like my crons, will show up once in a while though for the time being, it's going to be mainly chaos. I hope to provide as much insight with the new daemon codex as I have with the bugs.
And don't worry....we will have that bug on bug action one of these days.
Red Corsair wrote: You will enjoy the new demon codex for sure. It is very different but I see many ultra fast hard hitting combos with high volume of attacks.
Oh yeah. Had my first game today and absolutely loved the new dex. I actually bought the book and played with it right away. I'm sure I missed out on a lot of stuff but I love the feel of the new daemons. Now I've got 1 week to consume the codex before I play a real game next week (and perhaps my first official new daemon batrep).
Should be quite a few of those in a bit! Think Monday. I can only hope I get them up to Jy2s level though, I admit he's the reason I even started writing Batreps!
@jy2: Great two wins, bummer about that round 1, but I'm glad to hear you took best Nids!
Thanks. I've actually read some of your batreps on your blog and find them quite entertaining as well as informative. You've actually influenced my bugs as well. I took your advice to give my tervigons 3 psychic powers. And now I am contemplating giving the ymgarls a try again.
Regarding best bugs, I wasn't sure I would get it. After Day 1, I was 3-1. There were probably 2-3 undefeated tyranid players at that point, including Janthkin who was a perfect 4-0. Even in my last game (Game #7), there were 2 tyranid players on a table ahead of me (ironically, playing against each other). Thus, I was almost sure that one would end the day 6-1 and would get Best Bugs. Finding out that I actually won it was a surprise to me.
whigwam wrote: I did win Best Daemons (finished 18th overall)...
What did all the "Best Of" winners get as their prize?
k0v wrote: I think the "Best Of" winners got to wear "Bracelets of Russ" for 5 seconds before Reece took them back...
LOL. We each got a $50 Gift Certificate redeemable at Frontline Gaming. But to me, the G/C didn't really mattered compared to the fact that I was able to achieve something with my bugs.
The new daemons look really fun although at first glance it appears they will lack some serious consistency given all the random things that happen on a turn by turn basis.
That's something I'd be happy to find out. The "exploration" phase is always the fun part.
Honestly the random element is very much in the players control. Warp storm has almost no impact if you play a mono god or dual god army. The rewards are also fairly simple and are easy if you just want the basic weapon by default. I really don't see them being any more inconsistent then they are now considering they can deploy or deep strike and don't have the wonky demonic assault. I would actually claim they are very much more consistent.
If they didn't have some random effects, then they wouldn't be daemons. I guess I will find out soon enough how "consistent" they are.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/08 07:32:37
I've actually played against Steve before. Back then, Steve, a member of Team Zero Comp, brought Space Wolves to the Golden Throne GT last year and I played against him in my game #3:
If he's playing against me, he must be 2-1 also. He is an ok player (and a very nice guy) but he isn't quite as devious a tactician as I am. I look at his list and there is nothing there that really scares me. I think this is going to be a tough, tough fight for my opponent.
Mission:Bay Area Open Scenario #4 - The Crusade (4pts) & The Emperor's Will (3pts)
The way the BAO scenarios work is this. There are always 2 book missions, one worth 4 points and the other worth 3 points. There are also the 3 bonus points - First Blood, Slay the Warlord and Linebreaker - for a possible total of 10 points. Whoever gets the most points wins. In scenario #4, Crusade is worth 3-points and The Emperor's Will worth 4-points.
There is absolutely nothing here that I fear. I can deal with any of his units. His daemon allies will get clobbered if they get too close. His heldrakes won't be able to do enough damage except to my gribblies. Then next turn my flyrants will just fly past them to get rear shots against their vulnerable behinds. He doesn't have enough shooting to deal with my big guys, especially my flyrants. Honestly, I think that this is going to be a route.
Though the last time I felt that way in the tournament (Game #1), I lost. List is only 1/3 the battle. You've then got the skill of the general (another 1/3) and 1/3 luck as well. So assuming he isn't a tactical genius and luck is not too extreme....honestly, I think that this is going to be a route.
His Greater Unclean One and fiends come in. He deepstrikes his fiends conservatively into his own deployment zone (or perhaps they scattered into there).
Screamers deepstrike more aggressively (and unsupported as well).
I forget that his blastmasters ignore cover. Fortunately, he only manages to put 1W on my Warlord.
He also puts 1W on a tervigon, kills 1 gargoyle and insta-gibs 1 biovore.
Tyranids 1
Spoiler:
Tyranids cast their psychic powers and move out.
Flyrants swoop.
Shooting takes out 5 noise marines, including the Icon bearer.
I put 1W on the GUO.
Finally, the gargoyles shoot and assault the screamers.
I wipe them out for First Blood.
Chaos 2
Spoiler:
After seeing what my gargoyles did, he goes after them with his heldrake. Vector strike kills 2.
The other drake goes after my zoans but I make my saves against his vector strike.
His 2 plaguebearers also come in.
Fiends advance. Noise marines move up as well.
Focus-fire from his noise marines (including cover-ignoring blastmasters and his Chaos Lord's Brand) wipes out my gargoyles.
The other heldrake goes after my scoring unit but only kills 4. I am still in synapse range (my flyrant) and hence fearless.
Heldrake takes off another 1W from my tervigon (4W remaining) and roasts 5 gants.
Despite fleet, his fiends would fail their charge.
Tyranids 2
Spoiler:
Warlord prepares to assault his noise marines. The other flyrant swoops and gets ready to shoot down the heldrake.
Tervigon spawn 15 gants, who move into his drake's rear armor. I fail to hurt it with shooting, however.
My other tervigon spawn 9 gants and they go after the fiends. BTW, the tervigon is at T8 currently.
Gants spread out on objective. Biovores hide inside the ruins to get out of LOS.
The flyrant shoots down the helturkey. Biovores kill only 1 plaguebearer.
Shooting reduces the fiends to just 1 model left. I then charge it.
Finally, my Warlord shoots and assaults the noise marines.
The fiend gets wiped out.
Only 1 noise marine survives to tie up my Warlord.
I'd say my opponent is in a world of hurt right now. My tervigon and probably flyrant will be able to assault his noise marines next turn, and he doesn't have much offense left.
Chaos 3
Spoiler:
His heldrake vector strikes and kills 1 biovore.
Shooting kills 7 gants and puts 1W on my tervigon.
His plaguebearers then assault my hive guards. We draw combat with 1W each.
Finally, my Warlord finishes off his noise marines.
Tyranids 3
Spoiler:
The End comes in....I mean, the Doom comes in.
I've got both tervigons and my flyrant going after his noise marines. Tervigon spawns 9 gants without rolling doubles.
My Warlord goes after his plaguebearers. I shoot down 1 only.
Spirit Leech and shooting takes out 6 noise marines, including his Icon.
And then, both tervigons assault.
With that, my opponent concedes.
I've got Crusade 2-0.
I've also got my Emperor's Will objective. He doesn't have his.
I also get all 3 bonus points to win it 10-1.
Crushing Victory by Hive Fleet Pandora!!!
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2013/03/08 22:15:33
JY2: I see a trend of you going second. Did your opponents win the roll offs each time or did you request to go second. That gives you the last grab for objectives but at the expense of having to endure a shooting phase without your psychic buffs.
wyomingfox wrote: JY2: I see a trend of you going second. Did your opponents win the roll offs each time or did you request to go second. That gives you the last grab for objectives but at the expense of having to endure a shooting phase without your psychic buffs.
I don't remember exactly, but sometimes, they won and chose to go first and sometimes, I win and choose to go 2nd. I only choose to go 2nd on objectives games if my opponent's army isn't too shooty. If he has good long-range shooting, then obviously I would want to go first. If he has a good flyer alpha-strike (i.e. lots of flyers coming in on T2), then I would also want to go 1st.
I believe in Game #1, I chose to go 2nd. In Game #2, my opponent won the initiative and chose to go first. Game #3, I believe I won and went 2nd. In this game, my opponent chose to go first (which was fine because I wanted to go 2nd anyways).
Traceoftoxin wrote: Going second with Tyranids is such a massive liability. I don't imagine he chose to do so.
It really depends on the matchup. Usually, you would want to go first against alpha-strike armies, drop pod armies or gunline armies (or even against flyer armies which will alpha-strike on T2). Otherwise, I actually prefer to go 2nd in objectives games where your opponent can't really hurt you from a distance.
Ugh...as a Tyranid player, it's always painful to see Zoanthropes with Smite, Haemorrhage, and Life Leech.
Is there a scenario in which you would keep their book powers? Warp Blast is still nasty against MEQ, and Warp Lance is still decent against vehicles and instagibbing HQs.
Also, I'm just going from memory, so I might be completely wrong on this one...can the Chaos Lord get 3 different weapons (brand, melta, claw)? I believe he only comes with a bolt pistol and cc weapon to trade in.
2013/03/08 18:51:06
Subject: 1750 - Jy2's Road to the Bay Area Open GT - Hive Fleet Pandora (Army Pics on p.3, Game #3 on p.5)
jy2 wrote: It really depends on the matchup. Usually, you would want to go first against alpha-strike armies, drop pod armies or gunline armies (or even against flyer armies which will alpha-strike on T2). Otherwise, I actually prefer to go 2nd in objectives games where your opponent can't really hurt you from a distance.
So 75% of armies then?
But seriously, most armies do have the ability to pick up a flyrant turn 1, so making sure he's in the air is clinch, as you know. On the off chance your facing someone with very little first turn firepower and/or fliers, I concur on taking second.
2013/03/08 22:18:25
Subject: Re:1750 - Jy2's Road to the Bay Area Open GT - Hive Fleet Pandora (Army Pics on p.3, Game #3 on p.5)
Poor chaos player. I bet his army would crush a lot of space marine armies with all that AP3 ignores cover. I bet he had zero idea what he was in for against your army though.
Edit: also I'm constantly surprised by how people can just toss squads around unsupported into enemy lines. Having put the screamers closer to his other troops may have helped immensely(probably not but you know what I mean)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/08 22:23:24
2013/03/08 22:29:15
Subject: 1750 - Jy2's Road to the Bay Area Open GT - Hive Fleet Pandora (Army Pics on p.3, Game #3 on p.5)
Siphen wrote: Ugh...as a Tyranid player, it's always painful to see Zoanthropes with Smite, Haemorrhage, and Life Leech.
Is there a scenario in which you would keep their book powers? Warp Blast is still nasty against MEQ, and Warp Lance is still decent against vehicles and instagibbing HQs.
Also, I'm just going from memory, so I might be completely wrong on this one...can the Chaos Lord get 3 different weapons (brand, melta, claw)? I believe he only comes with a bolt pistol and cc weapon to trade in.
Probably if I am playing against land raider-spam.
They're a support unit so I always give them book powers in order to try to get Endurance or Enfeeble. And if not, then I can always swap out for Smite.
In any case, having the zoanthropes allows me to play much more aggressively with my tervigons as I don't need to babysit my backcourt units with them.
I believe the Brand you can buy separately, no matter what the other 2 weapons were. He can still use only 1 shooting attack, however.
Well played on game 3 against the Daemons. Daemons put up a good fight, but were overwhelmed by the number of units and enfeeble at your disposal.
I look forward to seeing how your list does against Helldrakes.
Thanks. That daemon army would be absolutely brutal for anyone else to play against. Unfortunately for my opponent, he drew the one army that actually matches up well against his army - tyranids. Still, it isn't an easy fight for my bugs unless I get the right powers and my gant-spawning is strong. Fortunately for me, I did and they were.
jy2 wrote: It really depends on the matchup. Usually, you would want to go first against alpha-strike armies, drop pod armies or gunline armies (or even against flyer armies which will alpha-strike on T2). Otherwise, I actually prefer to go 2nd in objectives games where your opponent can't really hurt you from a distance.
So 75% of armies then?
But seriously, most armies do have the ability to pick up a flyrant turn 1, so making sure he's in the air is clinch, as you know. On the off chance your facing someone with very little first turn firepower and/or fliers, I concur on taking second.
Lol. Yeah, that sounds about right.
Also, sometimes you have to take into consideration other factors....like LOS-blocking terrain where your flyrants can hide, night-fight and the range of the opponent (i.e. 24" for grey knights and necrons). If I can get away with going 2nd in an objectives game, I usually try to. But more often than not, I'd probably want to go first.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Chancetragedy wrote: Poor chaos player. I bet his army would crush a lot of space marine armies with all that AP3 ignores cover. I bet he had zero idea what he was in for against your army though.
Edit: also I'm constantly surprised by how people can just toss squads around unsupported into enemy lines. Having put the screamers closer to his other troops may have helped immensely(probably not but you know what I mean)
Yeah, putting the screamers there was just a mistake on his part. Though I suspect his fiends were supposed to support his screamers as a counter-charge unit. They just happened to scatter back into his deployment zone.
But overall, I don't think he knew what he was getting into against my army.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/08 22:32:06
Wondering why he didn't focus both turkeys on taking out the non-iron armed Flyrant. At 36 " and you having advanced up the board, it is pretty easy to VS and still flame something else.
wyomingfox wrote: Wondering why he didn't focus both turkeys on taking out the non-iron armed Flyrant. At 36 " and you having advanced up the board, it is pretty easy to VS and still flame something else.
Because of a weird FAQ by the BAO. This was up there with flyers being able to shoot straight down and with vehicles being able to deny objectives.
From the BAOFAQ's:
Flyers and Flying Monstrous Creatures
• Any attacks or special abilities that can cause damage (i.e. hits, wounds and/or vehicle damage) without rolling to hit (e.g. an Ork Weirdboy’s Zzap psychic power, Imotekh’s Lord of the Storm or Njal’s Lord of Tempests special rules) have no effect on Zooming Flyers and Swooping Flying Monstrous Creatures. This is true even if the attacking unit has the Skyfire special rule. [pg. 3, W40KRB FAQ]
Before the match, we double-checked with one of the judges and he confirmed this restriction. Both of my flyrants were swooping at the time.
I have a question for you jy2. Because it seems your list is pretty balanced but if you were to have something killed first turn that would throw you off your game what would it be? A flyrant? A tervigon? It's so hard to figure out target priority in your list and I very rarely get to play against nids. It seems people go after your gargoyles a lot and I can't imagine that's always the right choice...
2013/03/09 01:07:00
Subject: 1750 - Jy2's Road to the Bay Area Open GT - Hive Fleet Pandora (Army Pics on p.3, Game #4 on p.6)
That's a straight-up blown call by the judge. While, IMO, the BAOFAQ is completely correct and consistent with the 40k rules, the Vector Strike errata (on page 1 of the main rulebook FAQ) specifically and explicitly allows Vector Strike to hit Flyers. Ah well, mistakes happen.
The Burning Brand does require the swap of a weapon; which is why you can't get both it and the Black Mace on a Daemon Prince; because he only comes with one weapon to swap. However the bike does come with twin-linked bolters, which are a weapon and many people believe are legit to swap out as one of the model's weapons for a purchased weapon. And that swap was explicitly ruled to be legal in the BAOFAQ:
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/03/09 01:07:51
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Lol. Yeah, that sounds about right.
Also, sometimes you have to take into consideration other factors....like LOS-blocking terrain where your flyrants can hide, night-fight and the range of the opponent (i.e. 24" for grey knights and necrons). If I can get away with going 2nd in an objectives game, I usually try to. But more often than not, I'd probably want to go first.
Just be careful not to make that assumption all the time. Letting a 24"gunline army like Necs and us GK can turn around to bite you hard because it allows us to get in range of your army. To have total board control range to shoot at you for the rest of the game, if we have to move to you, is a risky strategy in an objective game. Sometimes it's that extra movement up that makes the difference between a win and a loss because you forced us to move in range of your army ie now we can shoot at your army (the backfield campers that shouldn't be getting shot at) in addition to your frontal force if the strategic value of wiping that gant squad staking you off the emperors will objective in the back for say is worth the risk loss of the purifier squad etc.. Worrying about tide of grimmles and flyrants and not the biovores and gant obj holders in the back should be 24" armies main priority but given a break in the tide the game may really turn in our favor. Jus a little something to think about, hope you take it to heart
2500pts 2000
2013/03/09 02:23:49
Subject: Re:1750 - Jy2's Road to the Bay Area Open GT - Hive Fleet Pandora (Army Pics on p.3, Game #4 on p.6)
Chancetragedy wrote: I have a question for you jy2. Because it seems your list is pretty balanced but if you were to have something killed first turn that would throw you off your game what would it be? A flyrant? A tervigon? It's so hard to figure out target priority in your list and I very rarely get to play against nids. It seems people go after your gargoyles a lot and I can't imagine that's always the right choice...
Not if you kill 1 unit. If you kill 2 VIP targets (i.e. flyrants and/or tervigons), then that may throw me off, like in my Game #1. Still, tyranids are rugged enough such that they can still come back from such a pounding. Despite losing 1 flyrant and 1 tervigon on Turn 2 and then my other flyrant on Turn 3, I still felt that I had a good chance to win this game. That's what makes my list so hard to fight. There is a lot of redundancy and my TMC's (tyranid monstrous creatures) are so hard to take down.
The gargoyles are what I would call secondary targets. They are fast and dangerous and much easier to kill. That's why a lot of people go after them. They aren't as important as my flyrants and tervigons, however, if you don't deal with them, they will hit your lines on T2 and tie up a lot of units. So it's kind of a pick-your-poison type of situation. Focus on the tough-to-kill big guys and let the small but fast guys hit your lines or focus on the easier-to-kill small guys so that your units will be free to continue shooting.
Personally, I would go after the tervigons if the opportunity presents itself. If the tervies are too hard to kill (i.e. with Iron Arm, Endurance and/or cover), then I would go after the easiest-to-kill-2nd-most-important targets.
Mannahnin wrote: That's a straight-up blown call by the judge. While, IMO, the BAOFAQ is completely correct and consistent with the 40k rules, the Vector Strike errata (on page 1 of the main rulebook FAQ) specifically and explicitly allows Vector Strike to hit Flyers. Ah well, mistakes happen.
The Burning Brand does require the swap of a weapon; which is why you can't get both it and the Black Mace on a Daemon Prince; because he only comes with one weapon to swap. However the bike does come with twin-linked bolters, which are a weapon and many people believe are legit to swap out as one of the model's weapons for a purchased weapon. And that swap was explicitly ruled to be legal in the BAOFAQ:
I don't disagree. This was one of those FAQ rules that went against RAW. It also actually makes flyers stronger, as you can't vector-strike another flyer as long as it is flying. Thus, flying monstrous creatures can't even down flyers with vector strikes!
In any case, I'm sure a lot of players probably overlooked this FAQ ruling.
Lol. Yeah, that sounds about right.
Also, sometimes you have to take into consideration other factors....like LOS-blocking terrain where your flyrants can hide, night-fight and the range of the opponent (i.e. 24" for grey knights and necrons). If I can get away with going 2nd in an objectives game, I usually try to. But more often than not, I'd probably want to go first.
Just be careful not to make that assumption all the time. Letting a 24"gunline army like Necs and us GK can turn around to bite you hard because it allows us to get in range of your army. To have total board control range to shoot at you for the rest of the game, if we have to move to you, is a risky strategy in an objective game. Sometimes it's that extra movement up that makes the difference between a win and a loss because you forced us to move in range of your army ie now we can shoot at your army (the backfield campers that shouldn't be getting shot at) in addition to your frontal force if the strategic value of wiping that gant squad staking you off the emperors will objective in the back for say is worth the risk loss of the purifier squad etc.. Worrying about tide of grimmles and flyrants and not the biovores and gant obj holders in the back should be 24" armies main priority but given a break in the tide the game may really turn in our favor. Jus a little something to think about, hope you take it to heart
Agreed. That wasn't a blanket statement that you should always go 2nd against mid-range armies. Rather, there is more flexibility for a tyranid player against a mid-range shooting army. It depends on what type of shooting they bring (massed plasmas would hurt!), but it wouldn't be the end of the world if tyranids have to go 2nd against these types of armies. You know you can always deploy the flyrants outside of their threat range and still zoom 24" to threaten them on your turn. However, there are also advantages to going 1st against these types of armies and I did so against 1 of my GK opponents. So you really have to make a judgement call to see what you want to do. However, against certain armies like Space Wolves long fang-spam, Tau, gunline IG or shooty DE, you almost always want to go first.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/09 02:25:08
Thanks, I appreciate the info! I sort of figured your army was distributed well like that from the batreps. It's always cool to learn about an army you don't get experience with.
2013/03/09 02:41:39
Subject: 1750 - Jy2's Road to the Bay Area Open GT - Hive Fleet Pandora (Army Pics on p.3, Game #4 on p.6)
wyomingfox wrote: Wondering why he didn't focus both turkeys on taking out the non-iron armed Flyrant. At 36 " and you having advanced up the board, it is pretty easy to VS and still flame something else.
Because of a weird FAQ by the BAO. This was up there with flyers being able to shoot straight down and with vehicles being able to deny objectives.
From the BAOFAQ's:
Flyers and Flying Monstrous Creatures
• Any attacks or special abilities that can cause damage (i.e. hits, wounds and/or vehicle damage) without rolling to hit (e.g. an Ork Weirdboy’s Zzap psychic power, Imotekh’s Lord of the Storm or Njal’s Lord of Tempests special rules) have no effect on Zooming Flyers and Swooping Flying Monstrous Creatures. This is true even if the attacking unit has the Skyfire special rule. [pg. 3, W40KRB FAQ]
Before the match, we double-checked with one of the judges and he confirmed this restriction. Both of my flyrants were swooping at the time.
But the rulebook specically states you can vector strike Flyers...lol. And
Automatically Appended Next Post: So if the FAQ wasnt intrtpreted that way, would you have moved your flyrants differently. If so how?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/09 02:52:20
But the rulebook specically states you can vector strike Flyers...lol. And
Automatically Appended Next Post: So if the FAQ wasnt intrtpreted that way, would you have moved your flyrants differently. If so how?
Yeah, some of the BAOFAQ's are actual rule changes, such as the one about flyers being able to shoot a vertical 180 degrees and that scoring vehicles can also contest.
But say that the heldrakes can VS my flyrants. What would I do differently? Nothing.
Let's say both birdies VS the non-Iron Armed flyrant. First of all, I'd give him FNP if I think that he is going to be in harm's way (i.e. the heldrakes). So can they kill him? The 2 turkeys would average (2D3+2)/2 hits or 4 hits, of which 2.67 wounds (round up to 3W). I then make 1 FNP save so on average, they would do 2W to my flyrant. He'd still be alive and next turn, both flyrants would go after both helturkeys. Most likely, I would have taken out both of his flyers.
In the worst-case scenario, he kills my non-Iron Armed flyrant. Next turn my Iron Armed flyrant would take out 1 dragon. The turn after that, I would go after his noise marines on his Emperor's Will objective. The results would have been the same, only he'll probably survive 1 turn longer and he gets my Warlord.
The rules change would have only delayed the inevitable perhaps 1 or 2 turns longer. Honestly, his army wasn't designed to be able to take on my army. They still can, but they would probably require the same amount of luck that my Game #1 opponent had.
)
Still liking him more and more though!
.....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids 
.....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
I guess I will find out soon enough how "consistent" they are.
2500pts 
2000 
