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Stranger83 wrote:

Eilif wrote:

Koppo wrote:

Stranger83 510337 5330089 null
4) wrote: Provide lockers that people can store their minis in to save them having to cart them to/from the club, you could even charge a small fee (£5 a month) for the locker key

^^^^THIS^^^^^

A stonkingly good idea there.

There's a club around here that has a bank of 10 to 15 lockers (around 1'x1'x2') that can be rented by the month. As far as I know they are always rented, even though the fee is something like 15 to 25 bucks a month.

If the FLGS has the space, it's a great idea, though you probably have to charge alot more than 5gbp ($7) to make it worthwhile to give the space to lockers instead of for sale merchandise.

True, though remember that you don't need a massive gym size locker, at most the "tallest" you're gonna need it to be is around 100mm and you could probably mainly get away with 50mm high lockers, that gives you a lot of lockers for a small space. In my head when I was planning this they were more like security deposit boxes than lockers, I figured it was better to charge £5 and have people with loads need to rent 2 than it was to charge £10 and have most people have half empty lockers, but this is all stuff you could work out yourself once you've done the market research of the area better and know more about where you'll actually be setting up shop.

I do think it's important to decide if its a store with gaming space or a pure gaming venue - personally I think all gaming stores are doomed to failure as you just can't compete with the internet, but others might think differently. I'd just scrap the idea of selling minis at all and focus full time on maximising the space of the venue side of things, which is something that you simply cannot get online cheaper.

1 Thing about location, it's all very good getting a large space with a car park on the outskirts of town (and indeed I recommend this and is definately the way to go) but that does leave the problem of telling people you are there - another area where not selling stuff may help as stores would, possibly, be more likely to promote you.

The design I actually have for the "lockers" is really more like safety deposit boxes at banks. Each one would be a fairly deep tray, but relatively shallow. Depending on the economy of it, you could go through and size them for something like the KR case trays or something along those lines. Doing it that way, you could quite easily have a hundred or so compartments that take up the space of regular locker style compartments. When someone comes in, they pull out their tray of miniatures...play their games or paint or whatever...then put them back in their tray and back behind the locked door. Minimal space, but maximum useful storage.

The location is a bit of an issue. The closer you get to prime real estate - you see rental/purchase prices go up dramatically. Most of the comparable facilities that I had looked at tended to be on the edges of areas that get foot traffic. It isn't as big of an issue in the US, as there are still plenty of ways of getting word out to potential patrons...even without cooperation of existing game stores.

 Sean_OBrien wrote:

The design I actually have for the "lockers" is really more like safety deposit boxes at banks. Each one would be a fairly deep tray, but relatively shallow. Depending on the economy of it, you could go through and size them for something like the KR case trays or something along those lines. Doing it that way, you could quite easily have a hundred or so compartments that take up the space of regular locker style compartments. When someone comes in, they pull out their tray of miniatures...play their games or paint or whatever...then put them back in their tray and back behind the locked door. Minimal space, but maximum useful storage.

You mean like this:



http://www.slingsby.com/c-3608-laptop-lockers-slingsby.aspx
http://www.slingsby.com/c-3549-8-and-16-door-lockers-slingsby.aspx



Automatically Appended Next Post:
When it comes to décor I'd advise some soft surfaces to reduce noise levels. Often it can be difficult to hear anything in the larger venues due to all the reflected sound. Hanging drapes (like banners) in the roof/ceiling space can help deaden this problem, as can carpets.

Koppo wrote:

 Sean_OBrien wrote:

The design I actually have for the "lockers" is really more like safety deposit boxes at banks. Each one would be a fairly deep tray, but relatively shallow. Depending on the economy of it, you could go through and size them for something like the KR case trays or something along those lines. Doing it that way, you could quite easily have a hundred or so compartments that take up the space of regular locker style compartments. When someone comes in, they pull out their tray of miniatures...play their games or paint or whatever...then put them back in their tray and back behind the locked door. Minimal space, but maximum useful storage.

You mean like this:



http://www.slingsby.com/c-3608-laptop-lockers-slingsby.aspx
http://www.slingsby.com/c-3549-8-and-16-door-lockers-slingsby.aspx



Automatically Appended Next Post:
When it comes to décor I'd advise some soft surfaces to reduce noise levels. Often it can be difficult to hear anything in the larger venues due to all the reflected sound. Hanging drapes (like banners) in the roof/ceiling space can help deaden this problem, as can carpets.

Exactaly like that, at £5 a locker you have (on the 16 door locker) £80 a month for very little space. If someone needs more room than 1 locker you could always rent out 2. If you could push it to £10 a locker (and again, this is what you would have to work out based upon the market in your area) then thats £160 a month right there.

I've actually looked in to this recently too.

Our FLGS and GW are literally opposite eachother and between the two have 3 4x4 tables (in GW so covered in stuff) and 2 4x6 tables with no terrain in the foulest upstairs room. The 3 games clubs in town are all over the place and go wherever they can.

I'm looking at a over 2,300 sq ft place in the town centre which comes with its own car park with 16 spaces. It already has A3 licensing and I've had a personal alcohol license since 2010 so applying for a fresh premesis license for that won't be too difficult.

It also, already comes with 60 lockers and a commercial kitchen as its last useage was as a community centre.

The layout is quite perfect as a gaming centre too as you have a mezzanine where the bar serves in too which would be great as a chillout area/painting area with video games and TV's too. Considering a few gaming spec PC's too. Basically make it Nerdvana.

So, you have a nice mezzanine which over looks the actual gaming hall which has over 1,300 sq ft of space. Male, Female and Disabled toilets, a bar/kitchen installed and the foyer is a reasonable size to be a dedicate store, however there is also an entrance directly in to the main hall.

The rent is £14,000pa inc VAT. so I reckon there is a lot of scope, I've previously been involved in bars and shops before but since I received my inheritance I wanted to do something which would be a great community thing as well as keep me steady.

Koppo wrote:
I'd go on a road trip to the dedicated gaming venues in the UK. Off the top of my head they are:

Firestorm Games in Cardiff
Eye of the Storm in Mansfield (was part of Maelstrom Games, still exists as a venue)
The Northwest Gaming Centre in Manchester
and if course Warhammer World

All offer an on site store, gaming clubs and refreshments. All have good to excellent terrain and plenty of boards.

The best venue in my mind is Warhammer World, the bar (Bugman's) serves good beer and good food, the terrain is excellent, the tables are excellent the event staff are both good fun people and organised.

As far as I know none of the venues charge for casual gaming, they make thier money at events and through the shop. WW obviously is not playing on a level field with the others on this but still charges a premium for it's events, which enough people are willing to pay to fill their events.

Been to most of these. What does anyone else think about them.

Most important thing for me, knowing that i can go on certain nights when it would be 18+ only and thus not having to deal with any children because i am a miserable sod...

Oh and food and drink is always a bonus, as is decent modular scenery boards

Take a look through the galleries for this store

http://www.endgameoakland.com/

http://picasaweb.google.com/endgameoakland

They have a very nice upper level with one half dedicated to miniature gaming tables and the other half dedicated to smaller tables that are good for magic, board games, and RPGs.

Thanks for all the feedback guys. I really appreciate your thoughts. Now I just need to discuss it with my buddy and see if we are capable to do all of this, within a reasonable budget in our local area. Hopefully we would have a fair bit of support from the gaming community if we decided to pull this one off.

Always willing to listen to other ideas so please feel free to keep them coming!

Out of interest does anyone have any opinions on the UK gaming scene venues currently around. Just wondering what people felt about them - clearly if they are doing a fantastic job in their area then I don't want to set up a rival one on their doorstep! If you don't want to publicly post a comment please feel free to PM me.

I was actually going to say No Eating.

I see that a few people have said food. But if I walked into a gaming store where people were eating there is no way I would want to game there. In fact I'd probably leave right away without buying anything. I wouldn't want to buy from a store where the stock had been handled by greasy fingered gamers.

Yes the greasy food on the tables is something you need to look at and could be a problem – a separate “eating area” would solve this, it cuts into your gaming space but I believe would be very useful and definitely bring in more cash than another gaming table or 2 – particularly if you are “out of town” with no eating place nearby. I’d limit food at the table to snacks with full meals not allowed in the gaming area to cut down mess.

I’ve already pointed out why I think trying to sell stock in a gaming venue is dead space so I wouldn’t need to work about greasy products on the shelf, but if you go ahead with a “store with gaming area” then that is also something to consider, though you could just sell non greasy food and safe yourself the hassle.

I think most of the bases have been covered, if you managed to do everything here then you’re definitely onto a good start. One other thing to think about is trying to get a place close to public transport. If you’re going to host large national tournaments then being within 5 minutes walk of a train station is very useful. Failing that then if you can be a short hop on a single bus (I.E. not having to change busses at all) that’s a good second. If you plan on holding full weekend events then getting a deal with a local hotel also shows that you care about your customers, if the hotel is far away from the venue you could make an arrangement with a minibus company to get people to the place on time.

As for UK location, being based in Yorkshire I’ve very aware that all the good gaming centres in the UK are in Nottingham or further south – I’ve always found this odd considering that 6 of the 10 most populated cities in the UK are in the M62 corridor, I think a top notch gaming centre “in the north” would really be a big sell, but of cause this depends on if you are willing to relocate or not (presuming that you’re not in the north already). I’d recommend Leeds due to the fact that it is pretty central to the M62 corridor, but Manchester could work too and Manchester is larger giving the potential for more "regulars".

Plenty of windows for light. Nothing worse than a room thats only lit by artificial means.

Stranger83 wrote:
...but Manchester could work too and Manchester is larger giving the potential for more "regulars".

The Northwest Gaming Centre is in Stockport making it competition for any Manchester venue (although it's web presence is terrible, I found a possible link to a facebook page http://www.facebook.com/groups/350460062435/ )

Personally I'd love one in Liverpool as I work there.

Koppo wrote:

Stranger83 wrote:
...but Manchester could work too and Manchester is larger giving the potential for more "regulars".

The Northwest Gaming Centre is in Stockport making it competition for any Manchester venue (although it's web presence is terrible, I found a possible link to a facebook page http://www.facebook.com/groups/350460062435/ )

Personally I'd love one in Liverpool as I work there.

Wow, that really is well hidden – and falls into what I said earlier about actually getting yourself known. If your gonna do this kind of thing you really have to advertise yourself well, you can’t just stick up a facebook page and hope people find you. I’m reasonably active in the local area, I’m a member of 4 clubs, and not 1 member of any of them knew that place existed despite it being about 70 miles from my home.

Liverpool, though having a lot going for it, might not be the best location.

Say, as a rough guide, that a top notch venue has a catchment area of 50 miles for “regulars” (tournament players obviously being willing to travel further but also won’t pay your bills week in week out), if your based in Liverpool then a large portion of your catchment area is the sea – your cutting off a lot of potential customers. I’m not saying it couldn’t work, but it’s definitely something you’d need to think about.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
OK, after near an hour of searching I finally managed to find a single forum post about this place – advertiseing it’s opening in 2010, but I’d have never have found it if I didn’t know that it existed and was based in Stockport.

Now, I know nothing about this place, maybe it’s packed full every day and couldn’t handle the extra custom if it came along. But why, considering that we are only “down the road” and have a pretty active and easy to contact website, did they not contact any of my gaming clubs to let us know they exist? Why can a highly tailored google search for them only find 1 post from 2010? It baffles me that people open these places and just expect people to magically know they exist, and falls into what someone else said about the “secret hand shake” type of club that puts me off going, after all all that I can find about it is from 2010 – I have no idea if it’s even still open.

I'm pretty sure its open, I attended a small tournament there some time last year. But yeah, any venue should have, at the very least, a dedicated website with an address.

So to the OP, make sure you market yourselves.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think the NWGC is associated with http://www.maraudergames.co.uk but then I cannot even find an address on that website. Anyway back to the thread.

Three drink minimum is a must.

1. Good sized room(s) with plenty of tables ready to go. Maybe some bar stools to sit on.
2. Regularly run month long campaigns.
3. Regularly run tournaments
4. Sell miniatures, paints, etc for the games you want people to play; at a reasonable discount. I know some people say that they only buy online; I only buy locally. Mainly because if there is something I want, I want it then not 3 days or a week from now.
5. Sell food / drink. Doesn't have to be much but I'd rather buy a soda or water or what not while I'm gaming then have to leave and go to a corner store. Some people will absolutely bring their own, but that's okay. One store owner on this board talked about how he determines what to drop depending on if they bring in more or less money than his "coke" products. Obviously he must be making something selling food/drinks.
6. Depending on the make up of your clientele, alcoholic drinks. Of course, if you have a high teenage population this is probably not a good thing. Also, you'll want to have limits here to keep any type of rowdiness down and certainly wouldn't want to serve "hard" liquor.
7. Quiet background music. Music is good, quiet background is great. If I have to raise my voice to be heard then it's too loud.
8. Clean and comfortable store. I don't mean a plethora of oversized couches; but maybe a few bar stools to be able to sit while playing.
9. Advertise the fact that you exist; let people sign up for notifications about up coming events or sales. In other words, engage and communicate with your clients. Let dakka and some of the other sites know you exist and where you are at. Make sure you have a web site that at least gives enough information so that when people put "game store" or "warhammer" into maps search that you show up.
10. Big clock on the wall, with a list of upcoming events below that. Sounds silly in today's world but it's just one of those touches that just works.

Depending upon your focus you could either charge for table time or encourage people to buy something in order to be at the tables. Although you might want to gauge interest without fees first to draw people in. If you're making enough off of ancillary items then don't worry about it. I know a few stores require either a $10 buy in or $20 purchase for tournaments with some type of prize at the end; seems to work out very well for them. You could do a similar thing for campaigns.

Regarding #8 - this is pretty important to me. I absolutely hate going into those comic stores that are absolutely crammed full of stuff to the point that I'm afraid to walk down some aisles for fear of knocking stuff over. (I am by no means a big guy at 150 pounds, 5'7"). Walmart recently started changing their stores to provide more lighting, plenty of aisle space etc. Think about that. I'm not saying that you need wall to wall carpet or what have you, but I'd like to be able to walk through the store and not wonder if something is hiding around the next bend; there are stores in town that my wife won't even walk into because of this. This certainly helps to reduce crime/theft anyway. Not only does keeping it clean attract people, but people are more likely to clean up after themselves when done if it was clean to begin with.

My favorite store right now is Texas Toy Soldier in Addison, TX. Click the link, they have a couple of pics of the store and tables. It's clean, well lit, well laid out and easy to see where everything is. The pic of that gaming table is a little deceiving as they actually have a couple rooms. I think that room has 4 tables in it. They have regular league play and regular tournaments.

Which leads me back to #1 and #4. You should have any terrain that is on the tables as a purchasable item: rivers, trees, buildings, whatever. It's actually a great way of letting people touch and feel the product prior to buying it.

A large open space with big windows. Cramped dark areas tend to be uncomfortable and grimy.

Koppo wrote:
I'm pretty sure its open, I attended a small tournament there some time last year. But yeah, any venue should have, at the very least, a dedicated website with an address.

So to the OP, make sure you market yourselves.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think the NWGC is associated with http://www.maraudergames.co.uk but then I cannot even find an address on that website. Anyway back to the thread.

Had a look and I see what you mean! It is close ish to the area we thought about. What do you think of it? Would it be a great example of a gaming venue to emulate? Would it beat other competition from the area - I mean is it too good to compete against?

One thing I did want to add is that events are very important.

In addition to regular tournaments etc you'll want to have things like:

Paint workshops,
Intro to 40k/warmahordes/infinity/whatever night,
Tactics / Strategy discussions - maybe for a paricular game system, maybe themed to a particular army depending on what's popular.

Basically think of things to draw people that might last for an hour or so.

You could certainly engage local people to do this. If you do that, try and rotate them around based on feedback. Be sure to have a calendar on your site letting people sign up for these as well as to plan for them.

Dont think it was mentioned but was skimming through,

Cameras and secured area (parking play area, storage)

its a personal thing because iv gotten plenty of thing stolen in the past. (mostly ccg, and bits and figures. once i had a paint pot pilfered)


the second a store because known to be unsecured, people will leave.

nanook wrote:

Koppo wrote:
I'm pretty sure its open, I attended a small tournament there some time last year. But yeah, any venue should have, at the very least, a dedicated website with an address.

So to the OP, make sure you market yourselves.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think the NWGC is associated with http://www.maraudergames.co.uk but then I cannot even find an address on that website. Anyway back to the thread.

Had a look and I see what you mean! It is close ish to the area we thought about. What do you think of it? Would it be a great example of a gaming venue to emulate? Would it beat other competition from the area - I mean is it too good to compete against?

Going from my last visit the shop bit was OK but the room lacked atmosphere and the event lacked organisation (it was not run by the venue but by an independent). The terrain was not great and the refreshments not that good.

There is a blog about it here http://22michaelb.wordpress.com/2012/02/29/north-west-gaming-centre/

I would not emulate it. The best venue I've been to (aside from WW, which has a different business model) is Eye of the storm. It has very good terrain, a decent sized bar area, kitchen, loads of parking, well run events etc.

Personally I'd like one in Liverpool centre or Warrington (I work in the former and live in the latter) but actually getting a city/town centre location with parking my be difficult.

Have you thought about de-consecrated churches, like this one? http://goo.gl/maps/lt1kh They usually have land for parking, have electric and water, toilets etc and are also quite cool buildings.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
never mind about that church, it's been let http://www.cpm1.co.uk/commercial---to-let.html

but indicative price was £100 PCM. Rental of lockers could pay for that alone. Also Warrington has two clubs already who meet near there.

Damn, I should have done this myself.

Hey, I just found this place in Liverpool

http://www.scytheandteacup.co.uk/

Which seems to be a shop and venue combo, so again you may need to consider the location.

I'll fire you a pm Koppo

We also play in a pub.

Pubs rarely fill their function rooms regularly and are normally more than happy to let gamers take it every week for free and store their stuff for free, in return for gamers buying drinks. We just charge £1 per night for scenery upkeep, to manage attendance, and keep the club finances healthy.

One cool thing my LGS has is a common computer hooked up to a printer so that you can print out army lists and such. Also so you can reference the BoLS Infinity tutorials to explain how dropping a smoke grenade works. There's a drop box for donations (to pay for ink and paper) and it's worked out well. Just hope that an RPG'er isn't camped out there for hours trying to build a character.

EXCELLENT CUSTOMER SERVICE I can honestly tell you that if my patronage of gaming store came to an end, it was because the store staff said or did some thing rude or stupid.

If I ordered something and you told me it would take two weeks to come in. Then I ask you once a week about it, starting on week 3, and you get pissy about it, you can keep it.
(New England Comics- Ordered Aiegis Defense Line in beggining of August and it arrived for Thanksgiving in November)

If I play a game, you sold me, and then you trash talk that game in front of me .
(Grandmasters)

When I ask you once a week for 2 months to order me something, skip 3 weeks, then you tell me I missed the window to order it.
(Scholars)

I introduce you to a new game and agree run regular demos and tournaments for you, so that the manufaturer will reward me with free swag, only to have you bump me so you can get the free swag for yourself.

 adamsouza wrote:
EXCELLENT CUSTOMER SERVICE I can honestly tell you that if my patronage of gaming store came to an end, it was because the store staff said or did some thing rude or stupid.

That's key to any and every retail outlet ever.

Most of my concerns stem from the owner or proprietor of the venue, so that's where I'm directing this.

Do's
Have decent stock of the games I play.
Clean, and gamer stank free
Decent tables, with decent terrain. About 6 tables or more.
Know enough about the games rules to referee in a jam, and be trusted enough to do this well.
Have a good approach, or system for eliminating problem gamers.
A working restroom (why I don't go to the GW store.)


Don't
Be a condescending ass. We all know gaming, and can spot fanboyism from a mile away
Don't trash game A, and expect me to buy it or play it there.
Don't lie, again, we all have the Internet, so confirming your latest BS is just a google search away.

steve2112 wrote:
Beer ... and Beer!

Yes! ... and YES!

Regarding the food; I don't think you really need a full kitchen. I'm not expecting particularly fancy food when gaming, just something to keep me going. I've seen a lot of places that essentially have a couple of fridges with soda/juice and sandwiches and candy/chocolate, which should be enough for most people.

Having some way of mitigating spillage might help, but most of the places I've seen have been happy enough to have cans on the tables, though they have all been with older (20+) customer bases who have more scenery sympathy.

Otherwise my main concerns are:

Access; easy to get to venue with decent local parking is required, even if it's in an industrial estate somewhere.

Scenery; providing more than I have myself (unpainted RoB board and some various bits) for various scales/periods would be enough to encourage me to game there rather than at home.

But the things that'd prevent me coming to a club are: no parking, no snacks or no restrooms.