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 PunkNeverDie110 wrote:

 Super Ready wrote:
I think a lot of people get suckered into their own trap with this one. Space Marines are also sexually inactive and monastic in EXACTLY the same way that Sisters are... and I'm not seeing the chastity belt thing if I'm honest. So why is it ok for Marines to be repressed and not Sisters? Sexist. (I jest of course.)

Nope. In fact all the augmentation in the MEHREENZ bodies increase the production of testosterone

Which results in sexual dysfunction, prostate failure and cancer, liver failure, heart conditions, stunted growth in adolescents, and a whole mess of other things. Having too much testosterone is less healthy in men than in women.

There is a lot of weird misconceptions about the so-called "sex hormones".

 Psienesis wrote:
<shrugs>

Religion. It's weird like that.

Well if nothing else, we have found a probable reason for why the Emperor approves of the Ecclesiarchy.

 Melissia wrote:

 PunkNeverDie110 wrote:

 Super Ready wrote:
I think a lot of people get suckered into their own trap with this one. Space Marines are also sexually inactive and monastic in EXACTLY the same way that Sisters are... and I'm not seeing the chastity belt thing if I'm honest. So why is it ok for Marines to be repressed and not Sisters? Sexist. (I jest of course.)

Nope. In fact all the augmentation in the MEHREENZ bodies increase the production of testosterone

Which results in sexual dysfunction, prostate failure and cancer, liver failure, heart conditions, stunted growth in adolescents, and a whole mess of other things. Having too much testosterone is less healthy in men than in women.

There is a lot of weird misconceptions about the so-called "sex hormones".

Yeah, but that would take a lot of testosterone to cause that.

 Amaya wrote:

 Melissia wrote:

 PunkNeverDie110 wrote:

 Super Ready wrote:
I think a lot of people get suckered into their own trap with this one. Space Marines are also sexually inactive and monastic in EXACTLY the same way that Sisters are... and I'm not seeing the chastity belt thing if I'm honest. So why is it ok for Marines to be repressed and not Sisters? Sexist. (I jest of course.)

Nope. In fact all the augmentation in the MEHREENZ bodies increase the production of testosterone

Which results in sexual dysfunction, prostate failure and cancer, liver failure, heart conditions, stunted growth in adolescents, and a whole mess of other things. Having too much testosterone is less healthy in men than in women.

There is a lot of weird misconceptions about the so-called "sex hormones".

Yeah, but that would take a lot of testosterone to cause that.

It doesn't take much to exceed the body's normal limits and produce nasty side effects. The only way it'd really work for Space MArines is if they had lore stating that Space Marines were inherently unhealthy without a constant stream of chemicals and the like, but while some fluff DOES give that impression, GW and BL especially is very hit and miss with this.

 Psienesis wrote:
The line "cleave only unto the God-Emperor", oft-quoted in their Codices and other publications, is a 40K version of a similar statement found in the Bible. Basically, the only person they'd sleep with is the God-Emperor ("cleave to" means "remain sexually faithful with")

http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/cleave+to

.. if you want some reference.

I don't know if we should think real life words apply here. The Ciaphas Cain series shows otherwise. *shrug* One can say that they should all be nuns but some among them do otherwise. Although I seriously doubt them being nuns seeing as we have the Sister Famulous and the fact that they deal with the nobility and even arrange secret liasons for their charges. Its possible that they have had to sleep with nobles so as to do their jobs.

*shrug*

The Ciaphas Cain series is also from a notoriously unreliable narrator who has a very specific hate and dislike for Sisters.

So you can probably take it with a grain of salt.

 Void__Dragon wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
<shrugs>

Religion. It's weird like that.

Well if nothing else, we have found a probable reason for why the Emperor approves of the Ecclesiarchy.

I don't think the Emp likes the Ecclesiarchy at all.

The SOB's are the daughters of the Emperor. They were only called brides by Vandire who used them for himself. So I doubt the being sexually faithfull part and instead think it means that they are supposed to be loyal only to the Emp.

What do you guys think?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Melissia wrote:
The Ciaphas Cain series is also from a notoriously unreliable narrator who has a very specific hate and dislike for Sisters.

So you can probably take it with a grain of salt.

Why would he care if the Sisters are chaste or not? IIRC, it was Amberley so said that the SOB's aren't chaste.

Corporal_Reznov wrote:
I don't think the Emp likes the Ecclesiarchy at all.

The SOB's are the daughters of the Emperor. They were only called brides by Vandire who used them for himself. So I doubt the being sexually faithfull part and instead think it means that they are supposed to be loyal only to the Emp.

What do you guys think?

Nah.

Corpse God x Saint Celestine OTP.

Also, IIRC the Inquisition War novels show that the Emperor does, as of the 41st Millennium, not disapprove of the Ecclesiarchy.

Sisters of Battle being chaste is very problematic. This only goes to reinforce the Madonna-Whore complex. Why should anyone care if they feth anyone? Religious fanatism only goes so far.

 Void__Dragon wrote:

Corporal_Reznov wrote:
I don't think the Emp likes the Ecclesiarchy at all.

The SOB's are the daughters of the Emperor. They were only called brides by Vandire who used them for himself. So I doubt the being sexually faithfull part and instead think it means that they are supposed to be loyal only to the Emp.

What do you guys think?

Nah.

Corpse God x Saint Celestine OTP.

Also, IIRC the Inquisition War novels show that the Emperor does, as of the 41st Millennium, not disapprove of the Ecclesiarchy.

I recall parts of that novel where the Emp said is the current state of the galaxy the only way to save humanity or something like that.

Wait, I'm confused. Sisters being nuns reinforces the idea that they're whores?

I guess I'm just not in the know about the Madonna-Whore complex... aside from Madonna being an admitted whore.

That said, I do agree that the Sisters being celibate is problematic. It kind of takes a dump on my Space WolfXSpace Nun fantasies.

BlaxicanX wrote:
Wait, I'm confused. Sisters being nuns reinforces the idea that they're whores?

I guess I'm just not in the know about the Madonna-Whore complex... aside from Madonna being an admitted whore.

This has to be the funniest thing I've read all week. You don't know anything about Christianity, specifically Catholicism, do you?

 Amaya wrote:
Sisters of Battle being chaste is very problematic. This only goes to reinforce the Madonna-Whore complex. Why should anyone care if they feth anyone? Religious fanatism only goes so far.

I wasn't even talking about chastity in specific, myself.

I would say that Sisters are generally just too busy and too secluded for society to bother with that sort of thing in the overwhelming majority of cases. I would also say, and I'm certain this will cause a bit of childishness, that they are likely more likely to find solace in the arms of another Sister than in the arms of an outsider, simply because of the similar experiences, outlooks, and responsibilities they have, along with the fact that for the most part that's who they're around more often than not.

I still think that even then, such a thing would be rare, and it would be carefully monitored by the head of the order to prevent it from getting in the way of their duties.

 Amaya wrote:

BlaxicanX wrote:
Wait, I'm confused. Sisters being nuns reinforces the idea that they're whores?

I guess I'm just not in the know about the Madonna-Whore complex... aside from Madonna being an admitted whore.

This has to be the funniest thing I've read all week. You don't know anything about Christianity, specifically Catholicism, do you?

Nope, I'm an islamo-facist.

I'm glad I made you laugh though. Wanna trade pics?

BlaxicanX wrote:


That said, I do agree that the Sisters being celibate is problematic. Personally, it takes a dump on the fluff of my space marine fan-chapter, in that all the marines are married to sisters. :(

Careful, you're about to trigger nerd rage.

 Amaya wrote:

BlaxicanX wrote:
Wait, I'm confused. Sisters being nuns reinforces the idea that they're whores?

I guess I'm just not in the know about the Madonna-Whore complex... aside from Madonna being an admitted whore.

This has to be the funniest thing I've read all week. You don't know anything about Christianity, specifically Catholicism, do you?

Nor does he understand the trope mentioned, either.

Perhaps this link will help him?

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MadonnaWhoreComplex

 Amaya wrote:
Sisters of Battle being chaste is very problematic. This only goes to reinforce the Madonna-Whore complex. Why should anyone care if they feth anyone? Religious fanatism only goes so far.

For thematic reasons, or perhaps to adhere to the standards set by those they take from, out of setting?

Jeanne D'Arc, whom the Sisters borrow from, was chaste, for example.

Thematically, well, a Sister of Battle fan could probably argue that better than I could.

 Melissia wrote:

 Amaya wrote:
Sisters of Battle being chaste is very problematic. This only goes to reinforce the Madonna-Whore complex. Why should anyone care if they feth anyone? Religious fanatism only goes so far.

I wasn't even talking about chastity in specific, myself.

I would say that Sisters are generally just too busy and too secluded for society to bother with that sort of thing in the overwhelming majority of cases. I would also say, and I'm certain this will cause a bit of childishness, that they are likely more likely to find solace in the arms of another Sister than in the arms of an outsider, simply because of the similar experiences, outlooks, and responsibilities they have, along with the fact that for the most part that's who they're around more often than not.

I still think that even then, such a thing would be rare, and it would be carefully monitored by the head of the order to prevent it from getting in the way of their duties.

Quite possible.

BlaxicanX wrote:
Wait, I'm confused. Sisters being nuns reinforces the idea that they're whores?

I guess I'm just not in the know about the Madonna-Whore complex... aside from Madonna being an admitted whore.

That said, I do agree that the Sisters being celibate is problematic. It kind of takes a dump on my Space WolfXSpace Nun fantasies.

Space Wolves only ride other Space Wolves.

It is known.

 Melissia wrote:

 Amaya wrote:

BlaxicanX wrote:
Wait, I'm confused. Sisters being nuns reinforces the idea that they're whores?

I guess I'm just not in the know about the Madonna-Whore complex... aside from Madonna being an admitted whore.

This has to be the funniest thing I've read all week. You don't know anything about Christianity, specifically Catholicism, do you?

Nor does he understand the trope mentioned, either.

Perhaps this link will help him?

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MadonnaWhoreComplex

I specifically stated that I wasn't aware of the Madonna-Whore complex.

... That would imply, that I don't know what the Madonna-Whore complex is.

Basing an entire organization on single person is great and all...but it fails to account for the fact that every large organization has some degree of corruption and that it is insane to expect that everyone would remain upright and pure at all times.

In case you've forgotten....they do have this group called the Sisters Repentia for a reason.

 Amaya wrote:
Basing an entire organization on single person is great and all...but it fails to account for the fact that every large organization has some degree of corruption and that it is insane to expect that everyone would remain upright and pure at all times.

In case you've forgotten....they do have this group called the Sisters Repentia for a reason.

Oh I have no doubt that at some point Sisters might have broken their oaths, whatever that may be, and indeed that is largely an absolute fact, as the Repentia show. I was speaking in general.

I don't think Sisters are ever explicitly supposed to be chaste, but I can see why some would prefer it that way. That doesn't preclude the possibility of some violating this hypothetical oaths though.

I'm pretty sure that Sisters Repentia are basically sisters that accidentally whipped themselves only 98 times in the morning instead of the required 99, or forgot to pray to the God-Emprah before eating your vegan-burger.

Considering that being a Repentia basically means that you get to run around naked with a giant chainsaw until you die, I'd argue that it isn't really a "punishment" per say, certainly not one fitting the sin of having steamy rage-sex with Calgar.

Yes, Sisters Repentia are those who failed, either put there for their failures by the superiors of the convents, or who put themselves there for perceived failures.

They are at once both holy outcasts, and revered icons, their fervor considered a testament to their faith, their deathseeking nature a sign of their desire to atone for their sins.

It is at once a deterrence, a punishment, and, in their world view, a reward-- because they know that even if they fall from grace, the path they have chosen allows them glory on the battlefield and redemption through service and, eventually, death.

 Melissia wrote:


They are at once both holy outcasts, and revered icons, their fervor considered a testament to their faith, their deathseeking nature a sign of their desire to atone for their sins.

And their punishment being fething awesome.

I can sense the in-coming shitstorm, but let's be honest here.

Who wouldn't want to run around naked, swinging a giant chainsword?

Corporal_Reznov wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
The line "cleave only unto the God-Emperor", oft-quoted in their Codices and other publications, is a 40K version of a similar statement found in the Bible. Basically, the only person they'd sleep with is the God-Emperor ("cleave to" means "remain sexually faithful with")

http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/cleave+to

.. if you want some reference.

I don't know if we should think real life words apply here. The Ciaphas Cain series shows otherwise. *shrug* One can say that they should all be nuns but some among them do otherwise. Although I seriously doubt them being nuns seeing as we have the Sister Famulous and the fact that they deal with the nobility and even arrange secret liasons for their charges. Its possible that they have had to sleep with nobles so as to do their jobs.

*shrug*

The Ciaphas Cain series is also a send-up of the grimdarkness of the rest of the setting. It's an intentional parody/satire done as an in-universe series.

Also as to why they probably take vows of chastity and celibacy? Because Vandire used them as sex-slaves, and during his reign they allowed him to nearly tear the God-Emperor's Imperium asunder. They will not let themselves be distracted from their sacred duties again.

 Psienesis wrote:

Corporal_Reznov wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
The line "cleave only unto the God-Emperor", oft-quoted in their Codices and other publications, is a 40K version of a similar statement found in the Bible. Basically, the only person they'd sleep with is the God-Emperor ("cleave to" means "remain sexually faithful with")

http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/cleave+to

.. if you want some reference.

I don't know if we should think real life words apply here. The Ciaphas Cain series shows otherwise. *shrug* One can say that they should all be nuns but some among them do otherwise. Although I seriously doubt them being nuns seeing as we have the Sister Famulous and the fact that they deal with the nobility and even arrange secret liasons for their charges. Its possible that they have had to sleep with nobles so as to do their jobs.

*shrug*

The Ciaphas Cain series is also a send-up of the grimdarkness of the rest of the setting. It's an intentional parody/satire done as an in-universe series.

Yeah I know. Still its a part of the fluff until GW says otherwise.

Also as to why they probably take vows of chastity and celibacy? Because Vandire used them as sex-slaves, and during his reign they allowed him to nearly tear the God-Emperor's Imperium asunder. They will not let themselves be distracted from their sacred duties again.

uh... you have yet to show an actual vow of chastity. Just the word cleave brings this up:

merriam webster wrote:
1 cleave
intransitive verb \ˈklēv\
cleaved or clove also clave cleavedcleav·ing

Definition of CLEAVE
: to adhere firmly and closely or loyally and unwaveringly

So we are at something of an impasse for this one. I have already posted rationalizations above.

BlaxicanX wrote:

 Melissia wrote:


They are at once both holy outcasts, and revered icons, their fervor considered a testament to their faith, their deathseeking nature a sign of their desire to atone for their sins.

And their punishment being fething awesome.

I can sense the in-coming shitstorm, but let's be honest here.

Who wouldn't want to run around naked, swinging a giant chainsword?

I would personally prefer the comfort of TDA and perhaps a powerful cannon of some sort so that I may engage my enemies from a great distance instead of relying solely on a constant adredeline rush and zealous faith.

Corporal_Reznov wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:

Corporal_Reznov wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
The line "cleave only unto the God-Emperor", oft-quoted in their Codices and other publications, is a 40K version of a similar statement found in the Bible. Basically, the only person they'd sleep with is the God-Emperor ("cleave to" means "remain sexually faithful with")

http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/cleave+to

.. if you want some reference.

I don't know if we should think real life words apply here. The Ciaphas Cain series shows otherwise. *shrug* One can say that they should all be nuns but some among them do otherwise. Although I seriously doubt them being nuns seeing as we have the Sister Famulous and the fact that they deal with the nobility and even arrange secret liasons for their charges. Its possible that they have had to sleep with nobles so as to do their jobs.

*shrug*

The Ciaphas Cain series is also a send-up of the grimdarkness of the rest of the setting. It's an intentional parody/satire done as an in-universe series.

Yeah I know. Still its a part of the fluff until GW says otherwise.

Also as to why they probably take vows of chastity and celibacy? Because Vandire used them as sex-slaves, and during his reign they allowed him to nearly tear the God-Emperor's Imperium asunder. They will not let themselves be distracted from their sacred duties again.

uh... you have yet to show an actual vow of chastity. Just the word cleave brings this up:

merriam webster wrote:
1 cleave
intransitive verb \ˈklēv\
cleaved or clove also clave cleavedcleav·ing

Definition of CLEAVE
: to adhere firmly and closely or loyally and unwaveringly

So we are at something of an impasse for this one. I have already posted rationalizations above.

And with your definition, I would pose that, if a Sister is emotionally involved with another person, male or female, then she cannot "cleave only unto the God-Emperor", then, can she?


Here's some more links, all religious in nature, further supporting that interpretation:
http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/cleave+to
http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=ec0d2150a447b010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____
http://thebigpicture.homestead.com/files/LEAVE.
http://www.byui.edu/Documents/Admin_Offices/Housing/Student%20Living%20Lessons/Lesson%20Nine.pdf
http://bible.cc/genesis/2-24.htm
http://www.standingstrong.org/index_files/what_does_it_mean_to_cleave_to_your_spouse.htm

 Amaya wrote:

BlaxicanX wrote:

 Melissia wrote:


They are at once both holy outcasts, and revered icons, their fervor considered a testament to their faith, their deathseeking nature a sign of their desire to atone for their sins.

And their punishment being fething awesome.

I can sense the in-coming shitstorm, but let's be honest here.

Who wouldn't want to run around naked, swinging a giant chainsword?

I would personally prefer the comfort of TDA and perhaps a powerful cannon of some sort so that I may engage my enemies from a great distance instead of relying solely on a constant adredeline rush and zealous faith.

A man after my own heart