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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/01 12:58:20
Subject: Re:Warp Talons
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Terrifying Wraith
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This topic change my mind for the WT. I see now I most used them like playing a poker game to understand how to use it. For now, the only thing I saw them useful is for striking small unit in the back like IG heavy weapon team etc...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/01 13:09:12
Subject: Re:Warp Talons
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Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets
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minigun762 wrote:Talons compete with Possessed for the award of awesome models, trash rules. .
What's funny is that in the new Chaos Daemons codex, Talons and Possessed are the only two units heralds can join -- as they are daemons and battle brothers.
While I doubt that passing SnP/Shrouded/ FNP to a squad of Nurgle Possessed would be all that awesome, there you are.
Maybe if you inflitrated them using Huron as your warlord? While they are SnP, they are still Fleet. (riddle me that batman)
Warp talons could take a tzeentch herald on a disk, or slaanesh herald on a seeker, or khorne herald on a juggernaut. While they don't help talons from sucking like they do, they can act as a good delivery mechanism for the facebeating that is a herald. (especially khorne heralds on juggernaut)
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/03/01 13:13:21
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/01 15:26:58
Subject: Re:Warp Talons
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Veteran Wolf Guard Squad Leader
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labmouse42 wrote: minigun762 wrote:Talons compete with Possessed for the award of awesome models, trash rules. .
What's funny is that in the new Chaos Daemons codex, Talons and Possessed are the only two units heralds can join -- as they are daemons and battle brothers.
While I doubt that passing SnP/Shrouded/ FNP to a squad of Nurgle Possessed would be all that awesome, there you are.
Maybe if you inflitrated them using Huron as your warlord? While they are SnP, they are still Fleet. (riddle me that batman)
Warp talons could take a tzeentch herald on a disk, or slaanesh herald on a seeker, or khorne herald on a juggernaut. While they don't help talons from sucking like they do, they can act as a good delivery mechanism for the facebeating that is a herald. (especially khorne heralds on juggernaut)
I second that, getting that herald in would be amazing. I wouldnt even mark the talons in that situation though
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/01 16:06:47
Subject: Re:Warp Talons
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Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets
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You would have to. The wording of heralds is that they can only join units of daemons of the same alignment.
Unless GW FAQs it the other way, your talons and herald would need to be of the same daemon.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/01 18:07:51
Subject: Warp Talons
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Build them as raptors with dual melta, and stick all the twin LC on your slaanesh terminators.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/01 18:50:37
Subject: Re:Warp Talons
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Nurgle Veteran Marine with the Flu
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You guys just made me buy a box of Warp Talons. Shucks.
I'll keep you posted how they turn out. I love the idea of gettting the most out of Blind / and deepstriking multiple threats.
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Fly Molo of Dark Future Gaming!
http://darkfuturegaming.blogspot.com/ |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/01 20:20:59
Subject: Warp Talons
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Nurgle Predator Driver with an Infestation
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I was originally going to run a squad of 10x WT, but now I think I will run 2 squads of 5x WT. One with MoT and another with MoK. Not sure on the GoM yet though.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/01 21:26:26
Subject: Re:Warp Talons
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Battleship Captain
Oregon
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labmouse42 wrote: minigun762 wrote:Talons compete with Possessed for the award of awesome models, trash rules. .
What's funny is that in the new Chaos Daemons codex, Talons and Possessed are the only two units heralds can join -- as they are daemons and battle brothers.
While I doubt that passing SnP/Shrouded/ FNP to a squad of Nurgle Possessed would be all that awesome, there you are.
Maybe if you inflitrated them using Huron as your warlord? While they are SnP, they are still Fleet. (riddle me that batman)
Warp talons could take a tzeentch herald on a disk, or slaanesh herald on a seeker, or khorne herald on a juggernaut. While they don't help talons from sucking like they do, they can act as a good delivery mechanism for the facebeating that is a herald. (especially khorne heralds on juggernaut)
I thought demons could only join with other units with instability.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/02 00:43:45
Subject: Re:Warp Talons
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Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets
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So the wording is this.
"Daemons can only join units that are comprised entirely of Daemons of the same alignment as themselves (i.e. a Herald of Slaanesh may not join a unit of Plaguebearers)"
Your unit of talons/mutilators/oblits/possessed are daemons. The herald can join matching those criteria.
Now the question is this. Does having a Mark of X count as being a daemon of the same alignment? This will need a FAQ as the arguements have already started up on the news and rumors thread.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/02 00:45:30
Subject: Re:Warp Talons
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Dour Wolf Priest with Iron Wolf Amulet
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Brymm wrote:You guys just made me buy a box of Warp Talons. Shucks.
I'll keep you posted how they turn out. I love the idea of gettting the most out of Blind / and deepstriking multiple threats.
Good luck.  If that fails though, start trying them deploying normally and see how they work out.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/02 01:21:29
Subject: Re:Warp Talons
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Regular Dakkanaut
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labmouse42 wrote:So the wording is this.
"Daemons can only join units that are comprised entirely of Daemons of the same alignment as themselves (i.e. a Herald of Slaanesh may not join a unit of Plaguebearers)"
Your unit of talons/mutilators/oblits/possessed are daemons. The herald can join matching those criteria.
Now the question is this. Does having a Mark of X count as being a daemon of the same alignment? This will need a FAQ as the arguements have already started up on the news and rumors thread.
You forgot the rule directly following this one: Demonic Instability which says in the first sentence that a model with this USR cannot be joined by a model without.
That being said raptors are good units that just happen to cost way to much to be competitive. I do use them in fun games in 2 units of 5 and infiltrate them behind LOS blocking terrain using Huron. I have actually gotten pretty good results with them this way. I run them with a mark of slannesh and Votlw so when they hit MEQ they tear it up.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/02 03:01:41
Subject: Re:Warp Talons
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Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets
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But the model with daemonic instability is not being joined by a unit, hes joining a unit.
It seems clear that CSM cannot join daemons.
The inverse is not as clear.
Either way, I'm hoping GW clears this up in a FAQ soon.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/02 05:40:01
Subject: Warp Talons
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Dakka Veteran
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The funniest way I can think of using Warp Talons is by dropping them down in front of an assault unit going for one of your squishier units, then your opponent has a rough time trying to get through or assaults the WT and I'd say MoS them so that they get to rip and tear a new one on the assaulting enemy before they even have a chace to finish their charge. and this way you get into CC without having to go to the enemy in cover.
They are no mere speed bump, not for that price, they are a mountain that your opponent must climb, they will have to climb through the blood, sweat and tears to finally get to the virgin valley beyond but at that point they should be so bloodied from the climbing and falling rocks that a mere mountain goat can kick them over
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/02 14:12:36
Subject: Re:Warp Talons
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Regular Dakkanaut
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labmouse42 wrote:But the model with daemonic instability is not being joined by a unit, hes joining a unit.
It seems clear that CSM cannot join daemons.
The inverse is not as clear.
Either way, I'm hoping GW clears this up in a FAQ soon.
Joining is a 2 way street. If you meet a friend out on the street and you guys go eat together then you joined each other. To join is always an act of coming together and the word applies to all parties involved. Hence if a herald joins a unit the unit is also joining the herald. Now if the faq comes out and says otherwise I will truly surprised. That being said it seems pretty obvious the intention was to stop daemons and CSM from mixing.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/04 09:31:25
Subject: Re:Warp Talons
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Dakka Veteran
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labmouse42 wrote:But the model with daemonic instability is not being joined by a unit, hes joining a unit.
It seems clear that CSM cannot join daemons.
The inverse is not as clear.
Either way, I'm hoping GW clears this up in a FAQ soon.
It is clear. Possessed, Mutilator, Warp Talons and Obliterators aren't Daemons of any alignment; they have Marks of Chaos which isn't the same thing. It's only the same thing if you stretch it to Mark of Khorne, etc. + Daemon USR = Daemon of Khorne, etc. But as it is right now, there's no indication that that's the case. Fluff-wise though, then we could agree that a Possessed Marine with Mark of Khorne could also be called a Daemon of Khorne, but I'm quite sure that in this case it's meant as the technical wording Daemon of Khorne, Nurgle, etc. Automatically Appended Next Post: krazykishere wrote: labmouse42 wrote:But the model with daemonic instability is not being joined by a unit, hes joining a unit.
It seems clear that CSM cannot join daemons.
The inverse is not as clear.
Either way, I'm hoping GW clears this up in a FAQ soon.
Joining is a 2 way street. If you meet a friend out on the street and you guys go eat together then you joined each other. To join is always an act of coming together and the word applies to all parties involved. Hence if a herald joins a unit the unit is also joining the herald. Now if the faq comes out and says otherwise I will truly surprised. That being said it seems pretty obvious the intention was to stop daemons and CSM from mixing.
That's a Meatloaf 1977 right there!
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/04 09:41:07
Andy Chambers wrote:
To me the Chaos Space Marines needed to be characterised as a threat reaching back to the Imperium's past, a threat which had refused to lie down and become part of history. This is in part why the gods of Chaos are less pivotal in Codex Chaos; we felt that the motivations of Chaos Space Marines should remain their own, no matter how debased and vile. Though the corrupted Space Marines of the Traitor Legions make excellent champions for the gods of Chaos, they are not pawns and have their own agendas of vengeance, empire-building vindication or arcane study which gives them purpose. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/04 10:54:41
Subject: Re:Warp Talons
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Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets
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krazykishere wrote: labmouse42 wrote:But the model with daemonic instability is not being joined by a unit, hes joining a unit.
It seems clear that CSM cannot join daemons.
The inverse is not as clear.
Either way, I'm hoping GW clears this up in a FAQ soon.
Joining is a 2 way street. If you meet a friend out on the street and you guys go eat together then you joined each other. To join is always an act of coming together and the word applies to all parties involved. Hence if a herald joins a unit the unit is also joining the herald. Now if the faq comes out and says otherwise I will truly surprised. That being said it seems pretty obvious the intention was to stop daemons and CSM from mixing.
Look at the wording of the rule. Imagine your out at a bar with your guy buddies. A girl from the nearby table comes over and joins you and your friends. Now imagine that instead you get up and walk over to the table of girls and start chatting them up.
That's the difference in the rule. Joining may be the act of coming together, but in the two examples I gave you there are different results. Automatically Appended Next Post: Chaospling wrote:It is clear. Possessed, Mutilator, Warp Talons and Obliterators aren't Daemons of any alignment; they have Marks of Chaos which isn't the same thing. It's only the same thing if you stretch it to Mark of Khorne, etc. + Daemon USR = Daemon of Khorne, etc. But as it is right now, there's no indication that that's the case. Fluff-wise though, then we could agree that a Possessed Marine with Mark of Khorne could also be called a Daemon of Khorne, but I'm quite sure that in this case it's meant as the technical wording Daemon of Khorne, Nurgle, etc.
My problem with that is that GW has already crossed that border.
Why can a Daemon of Khorne use the Axe of Blind Fury, which requires a Mark of Khorne to use? GW has already broken that barrier in their FAQs. I want some consistency. That's what irritates me.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/04 10:57:34
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/04 11:37:36
Subject: Warp Talons
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Warp-Screaming Noise Marine
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why not try blackheart infiltrate 1-3 squads jumpinto cover turn 1 pop out turn 2 and wreck some face
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/04 11:47:14
Subject: Warp Talons
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Dakka Veteran
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@labmoouse:
But they FAQed it, so the Axe of Blind Fury only can be used by a model with Mark of Khorne or by a Daemon of Khorne. Before that was FAQed only models with Mark of Khorne could use it, and it was only FAQed because the Chaos Space Marine codex have HQ choices in which some have "Daemon of ..." and some have Marks of Chaos.
Furthermore to back up the reply I gave before:
"Daemons can only join units that are comprised entirely of Daemons of the same alignment as themselves (i.e. a Herald of Slaanesh may not join a unit of Plaguebearers)"
They have worded the "... Daemons of the same alignment..." with a capital D for the daemons. That's another argument for that "Daemons of the same alignment" are meant as the technical term and not just the fluff term.
Page 64 also starts of with the impression that the following rules are for the Chaos Daemon forces only. If they would have meant that it also included how a Daemon of X could join a friendly unit with Mark of X and with the Daemon USR, I think it would have been clearer.
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Andy Chambers wrote:
To me the Chaos Space Marines needed to be characterised as a threat reaching back to the Imperium's past, a threat which had refused to lie down and become part of history. This is in part why the gods of Chaos are less pivotal in Codex Chaos; we felt that the motivations of Chaos Space Marines should remain their own, no matter how debased and vile. Though the corrupted Space Marines of the Traitor Legions make excellent champions for the gods of Chaos, they are not pawns and have their own agendas of vengeance, empire-building vindication or arcane study which gives them purpose. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/04 14:32:36
Subject: Warp Talons
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Stone Bonkers Fabricator General
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Crimson-King2120 wrote:why not try blackheart infiltrate 1-3 squads jumpinto cover turn 1 pop out turn 2 and wreck some face
because those squads are so expensive, get shot on turn 1, and then if the enemy is cover they get overwatch and attacks in the face before they get to strike, likely being reduced to nothing.
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Dark Mechanicus and Renegade Iron Hand Dakka Blog
My Dark Mechanicus P&M Blog. Mostly Modeling as I paint very slowly. Lots of kitbashed conversions of marines and a few guard to make up a renegade Iron Hand chapter and Dark Mechanicus Allies. Bionics++ |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/05 03:17:10
Subject: Warp Talons
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Dakka Veteran
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Warp Talons are only good for one thing, but they are really really good at it. They are cuisinarts when it comes to cutting through blobs. I do believe you need at least 10 to make this viable, and you're gonna need a good mutation on the champion due to challenges. It's a lot of gamble for a lot of meh. But dropping in and blinding everything when you have other units that are already in place for an assault will work, and it will work well. Mine seem to pair up really well with some zerkers, and I bet plague marines could benefit as well. That said, I'd still rather take 5 raptors with 2 meltas and a champ with lightning claws/power weapon. They can do the same job, just in a different way. Warp talons can cut through enemies that are in cover with no problem, where as raptors rely on a bit of shooting first. I use raptors as assassins and tank poppers, but warp talons are better at getting into and staying in combat and racking up kills en masse. It's just all about the target. Also WT are overpriced, heavily.
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