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Again, it's not the ISPs monitoring your traffic that gets you. It's the media companies compiling lists of seeders and downloaders and forwarding that to the ISP.

Not according to the OP.

As long as the strikes are clearly presented to me and not hidden behind multiple menus on an ISP's online account management I have no problem with this.

Although I am curious what the specific plan my ISP has. Would anybody know where to find this information for Centurylink (Old Qwest)?

Will it be the same as the laws they tried to put through for take downs and freezing bank accounts where suspicion is proof of guilt?

How 40k...

Glad I live in the land of the free and the vaguely sensible rather than the US

 Rented Tritium wrote:
Laws like HIPAA apply to private corps. LOTS of countries have written similar things to cover all types of industries, not just medical.

And they have done so without our constitution.

Oh I'm not saying they might not reveal the information. I'm saying there's nothing stopping them from looking at it internally incoluding HIPAA. Is there a HIPAA for telephone companies? I'll wait.

This is disgusting. It's so offensive I can't even organize a coherent comment on it; my mind's running down a dozen tracks at once, most of them written entirely in obscenities.

 Frazzled wrote:

 Rented Tritium wrote:
Laws like HIPAA apply to private corps. LOTS of countries have written similar things to cover all types of industries, not just medical.

And they have done so without our constitution.

Oh I'm not saying they might not reveal the information. I'm saying there's nothing stopping them from looking at it internally incoluding HIPAA. Is there a HIPAA for telephone companies? I'll wait.

Idk about british law, but there are laws like hipaa for phone companies, yes.

Ok, the rage has subsided a little.

The problem is, piracy can't hurt anyone who doesn't, honestly, deserve it. The recording industry's future is withering away because of the massive proliferation of independent artists who don't feel like being beholden to some cokehead suit, and so should be ignored as insane and already dead. The film industry is making money hand over fist, boasting record breaking profits with every year, and so should be ignored as quite blatantly lying. The games industry is also making money hand over fist, with consistent and honestly ridiculous growth in a very short time.

The people in the center mainstream benefit from it, as people are more likely to chance what money they do spend on a sure bet so far as quality is concerned, and the people who are on the fringe because they are unknown benefit from the effective publicity piracy of their works brings them. The only people who suffer are those who are on the fringe because they produce a terrible (in quality terms) product, like the porn industry, or the more insufferable and reprehensible proper film directors (like Uwe Boll and whoever's behind those "[genre] Movie"s these days).

The further galling issue that a communication's service can be disrupted by unsubstantiated allegations from a quite demonstrably unreliable source has been covered quite well by others already.

Industry giants steal songs from indie artists all the time. Piracy absolutely can hurt people who don't deserve it.

Unfortunately, the indie artists aren't given the right to demand universal's internet connection be slowed down.

 Seaward wrote:

 LuciusAR wrote:
My ISP should have no more right to monitor what I do on-line than my phone company should have to listen in on my calls.

It’s disturbing how many people seem willing to give up their privacy rights to protect big companies profits.

You're assuming that your ISP monitoring your traffic is how most torrenters get caught.

It should be noted that they don't actually have to monitor anything, they just have to claim they did. These claims have never put to the test. Also that would at best get them a public IP, which is associated with an account holder. Not with the friend/roommate/child/random dude outside on the wi-fi who actually did any downloading. If any downloading did in fact occur, and they're not just randomly coming up with a list of IPs.

 Rented Tritium wrote:
Industry giants steal songs from indie artists all the time. Piracy absolutely can hurt people who don't deserve it.

Unfortunately, the indie artists aren't given the right to demand universal's internet connection be slowed down.

That's more a matter of plagiarism than anything.

I suppose I should tack on bootlegging: that absolutely is harmful. It's exactly the same parasitic rubbish the recording industry does, and is genuinely unfair competition because it targets people who are willing to pay, but cheap, and can do so because it isn't burdened with the cost of actually producing anything in the first place.

 Rented Tritium wrote:
Industry giants steal songs from indie artists all the time. Piracy absolutely can hurt people who don't deserve it.

Like this recent Jonathan Coulton / Glee happenings

It's a side point, but they don't lose billions. Most people downloading can't afford it and simply wouldn't buy the material so they lost nothing and gained some word of mouth. They need to quit making it sound worse than it is.

 Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:
It's a side point, but they don't lose billions. Most people downloading can't afford it and simply wouldn't buy the material so they lost nothing and gained some word of mouth. They need to quit making it sound worse than it is.

The situation's even worse than that: the reason most don't have money to spend is because they've already spent their disposable income on media. So when the industry attacks pirates, it's literally attacking its best customers.

It's just such a ridiculous and depressing issue. On the one side, you have the antiquated executives and their outdated views of business, and on the other you have the next generation of creators, and all the generations beyond that. We've all but won the war, but the losing side still holds sway in this age, and keeps pulling off obscene rubbish like this.

As long as they don't feth with my emulators... I know they have "virtual console" bs, but those systems will lose support sooner or later and I'd like the games to be preserved. I'm just sentimental like that

 Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:
As long as they don't feth with my emulators... I know they have "virtual console" bs, but those systems will lose support sooner or later and I'd like the games to be preserved. I'm just sentimental like that

Uh but its so hard to play Rogue Squadron without a N64 controller

I have an army of USB controllers. I play nearly EVERYTHING on my fight stick though XD
http://compare.ebay.com/like/251188394870?var=lv<yp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar

Not a bad deal there. Honestly worth it just for Rogue and Shadows of the Empire alone.

 DutchKillsRambo wrote:

 Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:
As long as they don't feth with my emulators... I know they have "virtual console" bs, but those systems will lose support sooner or later and I'd like the games to be preserved. I'm just sentimental like that

Uh but its so hard to play Rogue Squadron without a N64 controller

I purchased a nice adapter for my N64 controllers so I could play multiplayer on my computer.

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:

 Rented Tritium wrote:
Industry giants steal songs from indie artists all the time. Piracy absolutely can hurt people who don't deserve it.

Unfortunately, the indie artists aren't given the right to demand universal's internet connection be slowed down.

That's more a matter of plagiarism than anything.

I suppose I should tack on bootlegging: that absolutely is harmful. It's exactly the same parasitic rubbish the recording industry does, and is genuinely unfair competition because it targets people who are willing to pay, but cheap, and can do so because it isn't burdened with the cost of actually producing anything in the first place.

It depends. In some cases, bootlegging becoming a problem can indicate a market problem. For instance, bootlegging is HUGE in countries where the industry doesn't bother selling their product.

I think a lot of these guys would be better off if they viewed that sort of thing as an opportunity. It's a sure sign that there are some unreached customers in that sector.

The regional problem is largely down to currency differences: to sell in some regions they'd have to cut the effective price way down, and while they'd probably still make a profit off the end sale versus the cost of making any one copy, they'd also be pumping out ready-made copies that could be exported to other countries and might eat into their sales there. Sure there's region lock rubbish on discs and hardware players, but with a computer all you need is a media player that just ignores them (for example: I had a dvd that wanted my computer's default media player to change it's region setting to "canada-america" or some such (I have no idea what its setting actually is, because no disc had ever complained before, and after I just stuck with vlc), so I just closed it and opened to disc with VLC, which offered no such complaint).

When it comes to bootlegging in first world countries, it targets either people who are just cheap, yet too stupid to just pirate it if they're not going to support the creator, or tries to masquerade as a legitimate source, profiting off confusion and deception (and in this case likely selling for full retail price as well).

And that's sort of where the problem with this is.

I don't think this will solve anything, but netflix and pandora will. So in the next 5 years or so, we'll see a great reduction in piracy because these awesome services are more efficiently delivering the content and people are content with it.

But then people in the industry will CLAIM that this scheme was what did it and they'll keep doing it/make it stronger.

I'm with Seaward. I am not a huge fan of this system, but I think it's actually sort of better than what we have now.

Currently, if you get caught downloading a (purportedly) copyrighted file, the IP owner sends you a settlement letter and threatens to sue. Under our laws they have every right to do this. In some cases, as a courtesy, they will instead send a nastygram to your ISP, and they have a random way of handling it, depending on ISP. Maybe they will disconnect you on the first warning, maybe they have 3 strikes, I dunno. And they are well within their rights to do whatever the hell they like anyway - they can cancel your service for a good reason, a bad reason, or no reason, just as you are free to vote with your dollars and walk away. But all of that stuff is a courtesy, again. The rights holder is free to cut right to where they take you to court and core your butthole with ruinous discovery fishing expeditions and other nonsense. And while that may not be fair, it's certainly legal.

Under this system, the court system never gets involved, you never wind up with a criminal record, and the worst that happens is you are forced to find another ISP.

Frankly, if you get 5 warning letters from your ISP without learning to use Usenet, you're too stupid to be on the internet anyway. You have no god-given right to infringe on other peoples copyright.

 Frazzled wrote:
Your phone company can listen to your calls boyo...

This is off-topic, but I feel I need to point out that as usual, your post is totally, completely made up nonsense. There are only a few, very specific instances when your home telephone calls may be legally accessed by your telco:

1.) Under a normal wiretap, and only then, the calls that are pertinent to the investigation can be listened to
2.) Under an approved wiretap from the FISA court
3.) As a service quality check to ensure their service is being properly delivered.

Anything else is a criminal violation of 18 U.S.C. 2511, punishable by a fine of $10,000 and/or 5 years in jail.

Stop making stuff up.

 Ouze wrote:


This is off-topic, but I feel I need to point out that as usual, your post is totally, completely made up nonsense. There are only a few, very specific instances when your home telephone calls may be legally accessed by your telco:

1.) Under a normal wiretap, and only then, the calls that are pertinent to the investigation can be listened to
2.) Under an approved wiretap from the FISA court
3.) As a service quality check to ensure their service is being properly delivered.

Anything else is a criminal violation of 18 U.S.C. 2511, punishable by a fine of $10,000 and/or 5 years in jail.

Stop making stuff up.

This got me wondering. Not too long ago came a story about a guy who had set up a 'private communication channel' between his company's intranet and a chinese company. I think he was a programmer, and basically outsourced everything he was told to do to a chinese company. The ISP (verizon) denounced him to the company after monitering their communications.

I'm in no way tech savvy, but how could they even get a hint of what the guy was doing without somehow monitering illegally his activity?

Also, again, happy to be canadian. Until Harper bend over and does the same thing.

 Kovnik Obama wrote:
I'm in no way tech savvy, but how could they even get a hint of what the guy was doing without somehow monitering illegally his activity?

In this case, the employee in question mailed his credentials and his RSA token to the chinese employee. The Chinese employee would make a VPN connection to the employee's work PC to work. Security logs showed that they had an unknown Chinese IP connecting every day for months. The company contacted Verizon since t they suspected some sort of hacker activity. I can't find information on this one way or the other, but chances are strong Verizon was their ISP - I formerly supported several large companies, and in many of their locations Verizon owns the pipe.

Eventually they pulled backups of the customer's PC and found all the receipts for what he contracted it out.

In this case the employee in question had absolutely no expectation of privacy, as he was using company equipment to connect to a company pipe. They have every right to see everything on his work PC, as well as monitor it's connection to their network.

Just as you know, and probably do know, your boss can (and statistcally, does) listen to your work calls if made on company equipment, and your emails made on the company's servers. There are some limitations on how long they can listen to if it's clear the call was of a personal nature but they've got pretty wide latitude on this, and you probably signed something authorizing even more then they had to begin with.

 Kovnik Obama wrote:

 Ouze wrote:


This is off-topic, but I feel I need to point out that as usual, your post is totally, completely made up nonsense. There are only a few, very specific instances when your home telephone calls may be legally accessed by your telco:

1.) Under a normal wiretap, and only then, the calls that are pertinent to the investigation can be listened to
2.) Under an approved wiretap from the FISA court
3.) As a service quality check to ensure their service is being properly delivered.

Anything else is a criminal violation of 18 U.S.C. 2511, punishable by a fine of $10,000 and/or 5 years in jail.

Stop making stuff up.

This got me wondering. Not too long ago came a story about a guy who had set up a 'private communication channel' between his company's intranet and a chinese company. I think he was a programmer, and basically outsourced everything he was told to do to a chinese company. The ISP (verizon) denounced him to the company after monitering their communications.

I'm in no way tech savvy, but how could they even get a hint of what the guy was doing without somehow monitering illegally his activity?

Also, again, happy to be canadian. Until Harper bend over and does the same thing.

Lol, he doesn't have to bend over because it's already here. Bandwidth throttling is a very common occurrence among Canadian ISPs, especially Rogers and Bell.

Also that outsourcing dude was caught because his company was getting access to their intranet from China.

Kovnik Obama wrote:Also, again, happy to be canadian. Until Harper bend over and does the same thing.

Highly unlikely. Bill C-20 (I think that's what it was called?) recently passed that effectively included methods of dealing if Internet piracy, and I don't believe it included this system. I have trouble believing that new legislation will follow to hotly on the heels of C-20, given how long C-20 took to begin with.

Ratbarf wrote:Lol, he doesn't have to bend over because it's already here. Bandwidth throttling is a very common occurrence among Canadian ISPs, especially Rogers and Bell.

For what it's worth, I think I can vouch for the fact that Rogers does not throttle bandwidth due to illegal downloading claims.

HAve you been written up?

Was a terrible plan when announced, and still is now. Lovely.

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:
Ok, the rage has subsided a little.

The problem is, piracy can't hurt anyone who doesn't, honestly, deserve it. The recording industry's future is withering away because of the massive proliferation of independent artists who don't feel like being beholden to some cokehead suit, and so should be ignored as insane and already dead. The film industry is making money hand over fist, boasting record breaking profits with every year, and so should be ignored as quite blatantly lying. The games industry is also making money hand over fist, with consistent and honestly ridiculous growth in a very short time.

The people in the center mainstream benefit from it, as people are more likely to chance what money they do spend on a sure bet so far as quality is concerned, and the people who are on the fringe because they are unknown benefit from the effective publicity piracy of their works brings them. The only people who suffer are those who are on the fringe because they produce a terrible (in quality terms) product, like the porn industry, or the more insufferable and reprehensible proper film directors (like Uwe Boll and whoever's behind those "[genre] Movie"s these days).

The further galling issue that a communication's service can be disrupted by unsubstantiated allegations from a quite demonstrably unreliable source has been covered quite well by others already.

If this whole screed was meant to be ironic, it's brilliant.

If you're serious, I'm not sure what to say. Media companies make a lot of money, so they deserve to have their products stolen?