Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So as the title says did he? On the Lexicanum it says that the imperial fist retain both of Dorn's hands and it doesn't mention him losing one at any point.

This question has been bothering me for a while now as i cant find any evidence of Dorn losing a hand. However in the book Legion of the damned Zachariah Kersh is almost thrown out of the feast of blades tournament for cutting an opponents hand off. The author makes a direct link to Dorn losing a hand saying it was an "insulting echo of Dorns severed hand".

So do you guys know if he really lost a hand or is it just authors changing fluff as they see fit?

He's dead.

That's how they got his hands. By him dying.

He isnt confirmed dead. All that was returned was a hand in a glove and his gear, not his body. But yes, he did lose his hand.

 thenoobbomb wrote:
He's dead.

That's how they got his hands. By him dying.

He's dead Jim.


Actually I believe (source eludes me at the moment) there was a retconn from the older fluff and only his gauntlet, not his actual hand was recovered when he went all chuck norris and stormed the chaos battleship himself.

In the older fluff, his skeleton is kept preserved.

And his hands, they keep those separately. They scrimshaw the name of each Imperial Fists Chapter Master onto the bones.

I only know this line from the Index Astartes:

"They boarded the Sword of Sacrilege before it could flee and recovered what remained of Rogal Dorn. His engraved skeletal hand continues to be maintained in stasis, their holiest icon, and serves as a constant reminder of the commitment expected of a Space Marine."

Learned not to write off a guy as dead in wh40k as long as you don't see a corpse specially if matt ward is concerned

 Lynata wrote:
I only know this line from the Index Astartes:

"They boarded the Sword of Sacrilege before it could flee and recovered what remained of Rogal Dorn. His engraved skeletal hand continues to be maintained in stasis, their holiest icon, and serves as a constant reminder of the commitment expected of a Space Marine."

And from the sources I have tread in the last year or two this is surely going to be rewritten once the HH get's there.
I mean, they have rewritten Ferrus Manus fate from Index Astartes. And how fluff is going I am sure they will rewrite Dorn's death too.

Ferrus Manus's fate was unknown in Index Astartes.

Brother Captain Alexander wrote:And from the sources I have tread in the last year or two this is surely going to be rewritten once the HH get's there.
I mean, they have rewritten Ferrus Manus fate from Index Astartes. And how fluff is going I am sure they will rewrite Dorn's death too.

Well, novels reinterpret the fluff all the time.
They couldn't even decide on a hair colour of one of the Primarchs in-between some of the HH books, iirc.

As long as such controversies do not find their way into the Codex material, I won't complain.

 Void__Dragon wrote:
Ferrus Manus's fate was unknown in Index Astartes.

It was rumored that he is on Mars and helping Mechanicus. It was rumor about his fate until "Fulgim" came out anyway.

 Lynata wrote:

Brother Captain Alexander wrote:And from the sources I have tread in the last year or two this is surely going to be rewritten once the HH get's there.
I mean, they have rewritten Ferrus Manus fate from Index Astartes. And how fluff is going I am sure they will rewrite Dorn's death too.

Well, novels reinterpret the fluff all the time.
They couldn't even decide on a hair colour of one of the Primarchs in-between some of the HH books, iirc.
.

perhaps he had it coloured - because he is worth it

Bah, he didn't lose a hand. He lost everything else, and kept the hand!

copied and pasted from lexicanum

Rogal Dorn died fighting on board a Chaos ship, after attacking a Black Crusade fleet with a vastly outnumbered force. Seeing the importance of attacking the enemy fleet while they were still preparing he relied on hit-and-run attacks until his reinforcements could arrive. Dorn died on board the Despoiler Class Battleship Sword of Sacrilege after leading a desperate attack on its bridge. His remains were recovered and his engraved skeletal hand is kept in stasis by his chapter.[2]

Dorn's skeleton without his hands is kept within a chapel, and embedded in clear amber contoured to the body form of the Primarch himself. Dorn's skeletal fists are kept within two shrines, the bones intricately engraved with the heraldry of all the Chapter's previous Masters. Only the Chapter Master has the right to engrave his name upon the bones. Each bone corresponds to former commanders. Left hand, the first metacarpal: Lords Bronwin Abermort, Maximus Thane, Kalman Flodensbog, the first phalanx of the thumb, Ambrosian Spactor, etc.[

 kevlar'o wrote:
copied and pasted from lexicanum

Rogal Dorn died fighting on board a Chaos ship, after attacking a Black Crusade fleet with a vastly outnumbered force. Seeing the importance of attacking the enemy fleet while they were still preparing he relied on hit-and-run attacks until his reinforcements could arrive. Dorn died on board the Despoiler Class Battleship Sword of Sacrilege after leading a desperate attack on its bridge. His remains were recovered and his engraved skeletal hand is kept in stasis by his chapter.[2]

Dorn's skeleton without his hands is kept within a chapel, and embedded in clear amber contoured to the body form of the Primarch himself. Dorn's skeletal fists are kept within two shrines, the bones intricately engraved with the heraldry of all the Chapter's previous Masters. Only the Chapter Master has the right to engrave his name upon the bones. Each bone corresponds to former commanders. Left hand, the first metacarpal: Lords Bronwin Abermort, Maximus Thane, Kalman Flodensbog, the first phalanx of the thumb, Ambrosian Spactor, etc.[

copied and pasted form 40k wikipedia:

"Rogal Dorn allegedly died fighting onboard a Chaos Space Marine starship in the late 31st Millennium, after attacking the 1st Black Crusade's warfleet with a vastly outnumbered Imperial force. Seeing the importance of attacking the enemy fleet while they were still preparing to invade Imperial space, he relied on hit-and-run attacks until his reinforcements could arrive. Dorn was slain on board the Chaos Despoiler-class Battleship Sword of Sacrilege after leading a desperate attack on its bridge.
According to Ian Watson's novel Space Marine, Dorn's skeleton, without its hands, is encased in clear amber, which is formed in the shape of the Primarch's body. Dorn's skeletal fists are kept within two shrines, the bones intricately engraved with the heraldry of all the Imperial Fists Chapter's previous Masters. Only the current Chapter Master has the right to engrave his name upon the bones. Even with minuscule script, ten thousand years of history have left the bones covered with names, giving a list of the Imperium's greatest heroes. Each bone corresponds to former commanders. Left hand, the first metacarpal: Lords Bronwin Abermort, Maximus Thane, Kalman Flodensbog, the first phalanx of the thumb, Ambrosian Spactor, etc.

However it has recently been revealed that Dorn and his veteran Space Marines stormed the Chaos ship and were cut down to a man. Later, the Imperial Fists would pick up an escape pod from one of their own ships, which contained the effects of the Primarch when he went onboard the ship and a single skeletal fist of the Primarch. Where the true Rogal Dorn or his body is and what his fate may have been, no one yet knows."

And when it comes to who is right I will rather believe sources from year or two then sources from a novel from 1993 and a book from 2003 ( whose fluff already changed to a degree ).

Sidenote:

Wikis are only as reliable as the people who edit them - meaning, the fans. That includes all of you people, so quoting a wiki is about as reliable as quoting another dakkanaut. Don't take stuff for granted, and always, always try to hunt down the original source whenever possible.

Even Lexicanum has outright lied in the past when it claimed a book said something that wasn't actually the case - not to mention its editors' habit of interpreting and re-interpreting things in an effort to merge fluff from sources that were never meant to co-exist / tie into each other.

And from the sources I have tread in the last year or two this is surely going to be rewritten once the HH get's there.
I mean, they have rewritten Ferrus Manus fate from Index Astartes. And how fluff is going I am sure they will rewrite Dorn's death too.

Did Dorn not die after the heresy ?

 Lynata wrote:
Sidenote:

Wikis are only as reliable as the people who edit them - meaning, the fans. That includes all of you people, so quoting a wiki is about as reliable as quoting another dakkanaut. Don't take stuff for granted, and always, always try to hunt down the original source whenever possible.

The difference being that in order for something to be put up on the wiki, it has to be cross-examined by multiple other people, and generally needs to be backed up by a source.

Whereas on the other hand, people on Dakka can say all kinds of silly things all willy-nilly.

Not saying Laxicanum is the gospel of truth, but it's far more reliable than any of the crap people tend to peddle around here.

 Brother Captain Alexander wrote:

copied and pasted form 40k wikipedia:

"Rogal Dorn allegedly died fighting onboard a Chaos Space Marine starship in the late 31st Millennium, after attacking the 1st Black Crusade's warfleet with a vastly outnumbered Imperial force. Seeing the importance of attacking the enemy fleet while they were still preparing to invade Imperial space, he relied on hit-and-run attacks until his reinforcements could arrive. Dorn was slain on board the Chaos Despoiler-class Battleship Sword of Sacrilege after leading a desperate attack on its bridge.
According to Ian Watson's novel Space Marine, Dorn's skeleton, without its hands, is encased in clear amber, which is formed in the shape of the Primarch's body. Dorn's skeletal fists are kept within two shrines, the bones intricately engraved with the heraldry of all the Imperial Fists Chapter's previous Masters. Only the current Chapter Master has the right to engrave his name upon the bones. Even with minuscule script, ten thousand years of history have left the bones covered with names, giving a list of the Imperium's greatest heroes. Each bone corresponds to former commanders. Left hand, the first metacarpal: Lords Bronwin Abermort, Maximus Thane, Kalman Flodensbog, the first phalanx of the thumb, Ambrosian Spactor, etc.

However it has recently been revealed that Dorn and his veteran Space Marines stormed the Chaos ship and were cut down to a man. Later, the Imperial Fists would pick up an escape pod from one of their own ships, which contained the effects of the Primarch when he went onboard the ship and a single skeletal fist of the Primarch. Where the true Rogal Dorn or his body is and what his fate may have been, no one yet knows."

And when it comes to who is right I will rather believe sources from year or two then sources from a novel from 1993 and a book from 2003 ( whose fluff already changed to a degree ).

The bit you've bolded has been added by enthusiastic fans, it's not a part of the original text. Dorn's repeatedly been referred to as dead from from an in and out of universe perspective. No sources 'from a year or two' have come out, shedding more light on Dorn's death.

Or it may be a hint that fluff is going to change soon, usually this kind of fan stuff is removed in few days ( I can vouch for that myself when I wrote on Ultramarines page that they are the best Space Mairne Chapter ever - it was removed in few hours ). However this is standing there for two years now, and with so much sources stated there it is hard to find out where the info may come from.

I am not to enthusiastic here but seeing how HH series is going and that they already changed fluff for Ferrus ( from missing into super dead ) there is a good chance that they will left Dorn just missing, it will be a smart move because the number of traitor and loyal alive Primarchs would be even.

We shall see what the future brings.

They won't be 'leaving' Dorn as missing because he isn't missing.
He is recorded as dead. Dead. Not missing.
The Imperial Fists have his body.
If they change it it will be changed into him being missing.
GW doesn't give hints any more, they don't tell us anything.
There isn't a source for that 'Recently it has been revealed bit'. There is a source for him being dead. Very dead.

He lost more than his hand....

If I'm not mistaken only 4+2 primarchs are 100% Confirmed dead, Horus, Sanguinus, Curze, Manus and then primarchs 2 or 11. It should stay like this, no more dead primarchs please.

Dorn was confirmed dead.

 purplefood wrote:
Dorn was confirmed dead.

+1
/thread

I thought they retconned his death?

Nope.

Not yet at least.
For now he is missing

No.
He's dead.
D.E.A.D.
Dead.
Not alive.
Ceased to breathe.
Passed away.
Shuffled off this mortal coil.
Moved on.
Deceased.
Dead.
The Imperial Fists have his body and guess what? He's dead.

They have only his arm, not his body.
Where is the body?