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I've been tinkering with a new list, and while I see some of its shortcomings I think it's a pretty versatile. My fear is horde armies, largely because of the low model count, but I'm thinking it might have enough firepower to overcome.

HQ
Commander Dante

Elite
5x TH SS Terminators -- Dedicated transport: Land Raider
3x Sanguinary Priests -- 2x JP 1x Bike

Troop
5x Sanguinary Guard -- Chapter Banner
5x Sanguinary Guard
10x Assault Squad -- 2x Meltagun, Sarge with PF

Fast Attack
3x Attack Bike w/Multi-Meltas

Heavy Support
1x Stormraven Gunship -- Hurricane sponsons, TL Plasma cannon, TL Multi Melta, Locator Beacon

--------------
Strategy
Essentially the heart of the list is having too many high-profile targets to deal with. The locator beacon on the Stormraven has one primary purpose: To deep strike the landraider and get the termies into combat quickly. For tank busting I think the MM bikes work, and with T5 as FNP (from the bike priest) they should be pretty survivable. Between the LR, SR, bikes, and meltaguns on the assault squad -- it's hard to imagine much armor will pose a threat.

Not 100% sure where the other priests are going. I know one will be with Dante and the unit of SG with the banner, but I can't decide whether the second should go with the AM or the second set of SG.

Fears
It will be a very sparse board on turn one. Dante will be deep striking, as will the landraider, and the Stormraven starts in reserves. If the reserve rolls don't go in my favor, it could get very ugly.

The other fear is horde armies. I'm not worried about tanks, but the idea of a whole bunch of boyz is very scary -- simply because the roll odds aren't good that the high-expense troops will live.

Ah yes, a list I don't have to tell to put in MM attack bikes.

Don't reserve the land raider. It's not worth it. Yeah, this will lose to green tide. Like very time. It's a gimmick army, what did you expect?

I don't think horde armies are going to be the only issue; I think practically any other decent build will ruin your day. Your models numbers are seriously low and don't have a huge amount of staying power due to low unit sizes. A shooty, assaulty or even hordey list will just ruin this.

You're best ditching the Land Raider to free up points to get more infantry.

Foot slogging assault terminators stink. If he ditches the land raider, he's better off beaming in shooty terminators with a teleport homer. The shooty terminators are not bad for BA because of FNP and 5++ vs plasma.

Thanks for the input.

I know the logical move is to ditch the SG all together, and replace them with more AM. I'm such a sucker for SG though -- and in 6th they seem to have really come into their own.

I'm loathed to ditch the LR, only because of slogging the Assault termies. I suppose I could make them shooty, as suggested above -- but that feels like making it a jack of all trades list that wont do much really well.

The SG are fine if you want them, it just gets tough using both them and Terminators and Dante.

Are you opposed to switching the Terminators for assault marines?

Shooty terminators have power fists and 2+ armor in HTH just like assault terminators. Plus they can drop a heavy flamer template the turn they come in, instead of stand there and wave a shield around. Mathematically, BA FNP terminators are almost as good as TH/SS vs plasma, the #1 terminator killer. Plus, the stormbolters let your flamer template kill lots of dudes outside template range. They are a viable choice.

SG are very good under the right circumstances, but die like slime to plasma. Still, I think they are a better value than the DC since they are not nearly as vulnerable to spoiling assaults.

reps0l wrote:
The SG are fine if you want them, it just gets tough using both them and Terminators and Dante.

Are you opposed to switching the Terminators for assault marines?

Definitely not opposed to the idea. Shifting from Termies to a 10xAS with two Meltas and a PF on sarge saves 25pts overall.

That might be a good idea, because you have no teleport homers or locator beacons in the list. Those really make reserved shooty terminators effective. You can put the heavy flamer guy right where you want him.

Auswin wrote:Definitely not opposed to the idea. Shifting from Termies to a 10xAS with two Meltas and a PF on sarge saves 25pts overall.

I would definitely do this. You can even make the argument on switching the PFs to meltabombs and add another Attack Bike. With the termie switch, your list is pretty close on how I would run Dante

Martel732 wrote:Mathematically, BA FNP terminators are almost as good as TH/SS vs plasma, the #1 terminator killer.

2+/5++ FNP is really all that close to having 2+/3++ FNP?

Okay -- so the idea of putting 10xAS in the LR instead of the termies got me thinking.

Since I'm already dropping the packs from the AS, is it worth shifting one of the jump priests into Corbulo? Since he's basically assault priest without a pack, but the extra initiative would be handy -- not to mention the "All Seeing Eye" for a critical failed charge, or bad miss.

I mean vanilla terminators lacking FNP. Two 5++ is almost as good as 3++. Obviously BA terminators with TH/SS would get 3++/5++ vs plasma.

The primary problem being now is that Dante himself is kind of a tool. But he makes SG score.

Auswin wrote:Okay -- so the idea of putting 10xAS in the LR instead of the termies got me thinking.

Since I'm already dropping the packs from the AS, is it worth shifting one of the jump priests into Corbulo? Since he's basically assault priest without a pack, but the extra initiative would be handy -- not to mention the "All Seeing Eye" for a critical failed charge, or bad miss.

I think it depends on how you plan on using the Land Raider and it's squad. If you are going to ram up the front lines with everything else, he could work. But if you are using a Lascannon LR and hanging back at home objectives, he's an overly expensive priest for objective squatters. I really wish he had the option for a jump pack.

Martel732 wrote:I mean vanilla terminators lacking FNP. Two 5++ is almost as good as 3++. Obviously BA terminators with TH/SS would get 3++/5++ vs plasma.

Ok that is fine, I got confused on why you would bring in Codex Marines comparisons into this.

Because most people don't play with FNP terminators, and they all still use TH/SS terminators. So I was trying to equivocate BA FNP terminators with standard terminators. Obviously, BA TH/SS terminators are even harder to kill with plasma, although for the 3++/5++ situation, the 5++ is contributing less because fewer wounds get through the 3++. FNP TH/SS goes from 66% chance to save to 78%. Shooty terminators go from 33% to 55.5%. So the bump for shooty terminators is more important statistically speaking, as they gain more of an increase in save chance.

I used to roll a terminator librarian with some shooty terminators. Having FNP on the squad made a HUGE difference to how nasty they can be.

It's legit. As legit as anything in the BA codex atm. Especially when you beam them in with a teleport homer or locator beacon and they are packing a heavy flamer.

Martel732 wrote:
Foot slogging assault terminators stink. If he ditches the land raider, he's better off beaming in shooty terminators with a teleport homer. The shooty terminators are not bad for BA because of FNP and 5++ vs plasma.

Indeed, but I didn't say foot slog them there's still a Stormraven you know.

I pretend the Stormraven isn't a transport. It's much safer that way.

@Martel732 I was just saying it is moot to compare the two when the thread is about helping some dude with a BA army.

Right. That was pretty misleading now that I think about it. The real number then is 78% for FNP TH/SS vs 55% for FNP shooty terminators. Personally, I'll take the shooting and try to teleport in away from the high STR stuff. A deep striking heavy flamer plus 4 storm bolters can just end a squishy unit relying on cover saving them an assault.

Now those are numbers that are relevant AND interesting

Martel732 wrote:
I pretend the Stormraven isn't a transport. It's much safer that way.

My personal rule is: The only "thing" a stormraven should transport is Mephiston. (Disclaimer - this is not an endorsement of the use of Mephiston in anyway)

Yeah in a sea or horrible BA schemes, Mephiston on a Stormraven is not horrible. It's still 500 pts reserved, but it has the potential to do a lot of damage. You might as well jack him up on biomancy at that point.

Martel732 wrote:
Yeah in a sea or horrible BA schemes, Mephiston on a Stormraven is not horrible. It's still 500 pts reserved, but it has the potential to do a lot of damage. You might as well jack him up on biomancy at that point.

pl

One way to look at that 500 points reserved is as a detriment since its no in the board turn one. Another way to view it as you have a turn or two with which to eliminate any target that can bring down that SR.