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The list seems a little orders light if you want to make full use of the TO camoflauge.
IIRC, if you want to be invisible (and not just a camo marker, but totally invisible with TO), the orders are not counted in your order pool. This means you're looking at four orders first turn if you want to stay invisible with your TO models.
Furthermore, since you don't have that many effective orders, you'll find yourself hard-pressed to come out of TO and "rambo" effectively with a single model and still be able to react to your opponent on the board.
Finally, it seems like you like close combat. That's all well and good, but, unlike warhammer, CC is more of a defensive or situational skill in infinity, and not something to rely on. CC is also orders-heavy, as it requires one order per CC attack. That's not to say this list can't be done, but you may want to drop a few of the expensive TO guys and work in some cheerleaders to expand your orders pool.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/02/28 19:21:34
MRRF 300pts
Adeptus Custodes: 2250pts
2013/02/28 19:35:38
Subject: Re:Never played Infinity (Help with list)
The list seems a little orders light if you want to make full use of the TO camoflauge.
IIRC, if you want to be invisible (and not just a camo marker, but totally invisible with TO), the orders are not counted in your order pool. This means you're looking at four orders first turn if you want to stay invisible with your TO models.
Furthermore, since you don't have that many effective orders, you'll find yourself hard-pressed to come out of TO and "rambo" effectively with a single model and still be able to react to your opponent on the board.
Finally, it seems like you like close combat. That's all well and good, but, unlike warhammer, CC is more of a defensive or situational skill in infinity, and not something to rely on. CC is also orders-heavy, as it requires one order per CC attack. That's not to say this list can't be done, but you may want to drop a few of the expensive TO guys and work in some cheerleaders to expand your orders pool.
I literally have no idea what you are talking about.
Cheerleaders?
TO?
How would I make this list more viable?
WAR GAMES ON MOTORCYCLES!!!!
2013/02/28 19:57:35
Subject: Re:Never played Infinity (Help with list)
The list seems a little orders light if you want to make full use of the TO camoflauge.
IIRC, if you want to be invisible (and not just a camo marker, but totally invisible with TO), the orders are not counted in your order pool. This means you're looking at four orders first turn if you want to stay invisible with your TO models.
Furthermore, since you don't have that many effective orders, you'll find yourself hard-pressed to come out of TO and "rambo" effectively with a single model and still be able to react to your opponent on the board.
Finally, it seems like you like close combat. That's all well and good, but, unlike warhammer, CC is more of a defensive or situational skill in infinity, and not something to rely on. CC is also orders-heavy, as it requires one order per CC attack. That's not to say this list can't be done, but you may want to drop a few of the expensive TO guys and work in some cheerleaders to expand your orders pool.
I literally have no idea what you are talking about.
Cheerleaders?
TO?
How would I make this list more viable?
Cheerleaders = cheap unit options that sit in the backfield and provide orders without actually doing anything.
TO = Thermal optic camouflage. A unit that has this can be completely "invisible" on the board. Meaning that there are no markers to indicate where it is at.
There are different Levels of Camouflage, of which TO is the highest. You don't have to start your units as "invisible," but with the Oniwaban and the Shinobu it's probably a good idea. Especially if you want them to get in close to use that mono-filament weapon.
If you're just starting out, I'd recommend a 150 pt list with 3 swc. Like Kestril said, your heavy hitters in that list are all big in CC, and CC in Infinity isn't something that happens all the time.
Also, you'll want to pay attention to the AVA (availability) of the elite units. I'm not sure what they are for the ninjas and such forth, but if you're playing vanilla Yu Jing I can't imagine it'd be too high.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/02/28 20:04:17
2013/02/28 20:09:38
Subject: Re:Never played Infinity (Help with list)
This is what I came up with pretty quickly at work. It still keeps the Oniwaban and Saito, and includes enough models at the 150 point range to keep them viable. Personally, I'd avoid any of the slightly more "complicated" rules having to deal with TO and infiltration.
Full disclosure, Yu Jing is not a faction I know a whole lot about. So if any of the Yu Jing players see this and say I'm 100% wrong....feel free to correct me.
Play around with the list. As others will tell you, the game isn't about list building but rather how you strategize (my own made up word for "strategy.)
Cheerleaders are an odd concept when you start Infinity. Like, you wonder why you're paying points for models you're generally not going to even move out of your deployment zone.
Then you start playing, and you start realizing a few things. One, just how vulnerable those grunts are, so staying in cover in your deployment zone is a good idea. And two, that having units, on cover, in your deployment zone, with this games longer ranges and super high lethality, helps a lot. If you position your cheerleaders well, your opponent will need to rethink certain avenues of attack or risk a cheerleader braining his favourite guy as it outflanks you.
Basically, you position cheerleaders so that in your reactive turn, they can cover your guys that are out accomplishing something. It's not like 40k where if they get the drop on one of your models, and half of your army can see it, they sit around picking their nose. If that happens, half of your army will open fire.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/02/28 22:38:50
2013/02/28 22:46:39
Subject: Re:Never played Infinity (Help with list)
I literally have no idea what you are talking about.
Cheerleaders?
TO?
How would I make this list more viable?
Cheerleaders are low-point models which provide cheap orders for your more elite units. Elite units are waaay more effective when you have a lot of orders to fuel their rampage across the board.
TO is Thermo Optic Camouflage. It allows your model to be deployed invisibly! And it makes your model harder to shoot, even when the model is revealed! TO camo is pretty cool!
That said, lists are not the end-all-be-all of infinity. The advice above are like the pirate's code: More guidelines or suggestions then actual rules to build a list. It's not what you take, but how you use it. (and having more orders allows you to use it to full effectiveness)
I recommend trying a few games to get a feel for the system and some tactics used.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2013/02/28 22:53:02
MRRF 300pts
Adeptus Custodes: 2250pts
2013/03/01 03:18:54
Subject: Re:Never played Infinity (Help with list)
What he's saying is that the first list you got can work, it's just that it'll take a lot of skill to pull it off. Skill that I assume you don't currently have because you're just starting out.
I see that you have a lot of models with TO camo and I personally would want to pull off something like that. But the rule of thumb (you don't need to follow it, but it'll make your life extremely easier and I would stick to it when starting out) in list-making is that you have to have at least 8 regular orders per combat group. Fully using TO Camo (Ninja, Saito, Oniwaban and Shinobu) means them not contributing to the order pool until they reveal themselves. So in your first list you have... 4 orders while your opponent is more maneuverable with 8-10 orders. Having more orders means you can do and move more stuff.
2013/03/01 15:05:57
Subject: Re:Never played Infinity (Help with list)
Here is the Japanese Sectoral Army Boxed Set plus a Ninja. You can use the Saito model as a proxy. It's a point over but that's fine when you are first starting out. It's a viable army but it is very cc oriented. As mentioned CC is not easy in this game.
JAPANESE SECTORIAL ARMY ──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────
Here is another list with the Boxed set again but instead of Saito, It's adds Tokusetsu Doctor with a Yaozao helper bot, and another Keisotsu with Heavy Machine Gun. This list gives you one more order with a a bit more fire power. The doctor and Keisotsu HMG come in single blisters. I'm not sure if you can find the Yaozao in a bister anymore.
JAPANESE SECTORIAL ARMY ──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────
It still poses the problems of the first list: not enough orders and too much TO camo.
Have you bought any figures yet? If not, I really would recommend a Japanese Sectorial Army starter pack: it'll have tools you need (Oniwaban, Keisotsus) and a Kempeitai which would be useful as backup Lt. Then buy a Shinobu and a Saito Togan blister, since I'm guessing you love the models so much and would like to field them.
For smaller point games, use CDKs first list. For larger games, you can go fancier. Now, I'm having a hard time thinking of a list that can fit three TO camo units without resulting to a Keisotsu spam. Take note that I'm not an expert in JSA but it would at least be more manageable than the first list you posted. Also, "horde" armies have certain weaknesses as well. Anyway, here goes:
Spoiler:
Yu Jing - Japanese Sectorial Army | 17 models ________________________________________________________
That would require you to buy more Keisotsus. But if you already have minis from other games, proxy away.
Here's another list. Note that this does not contain three TO Camo, but just 2. The Oniwaban is swappable with Saito Togan--I would personally use Saito Togan more since he has smoke grenades that can help the Haramaki fireteam. This would also require you to buy a Haramaki box and a Haramaki ML blister.
Spoiler:
Yu Jing - Japanese Sectorial Army | 10 models ________________________________________________________
Shinobu and Saito Togan deploys forward, Haramaki fireteam moves forward while the two ninjas eliminate potential threats and cover their advance. Keisotsus there to cheer them on and Kempeitai as backup if the Lt. Keisotsu dies.
2013/03/02 11:12:22
Subject: Re:Never played Infinity (Help with list)
If you were going to use something like the first list i would drop the Keisotsu HMG for two more Keisotsus to get you up to a 5 man link team. You really need the 5 man bonus for a Keisotsu link team. But if you've never played before learning the game with a list full of TO camo is probably not a great idea. Its much better to start at smaller points levels (100 - 150) using some basic troops to get an understanding of the basic mechanics of the game rather than jumping straight in to TO heavy lists. Have a look at this thread to get an idea of what things to try and include when making a list. http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/477491.page
Cheerleaders are low-point models which provide cheap orders for your more elite units. Elite units are waaay more effective when you have a lot of orders to fuel their rampage across the board.
That said, lists are not the end-all-be-all of infinity. The advice above are like the pirate's code: More guidelines or suggestions then actual rules to build a list. It's not what you take, but how you use it. (and having more orders allows you to use it to full effectiveness)
I recommend trying a few games to get a feel for the system and some tactics used.
That's true, but many a special or heavy trooper has ignored the humble line infantry at their peril. I've scored wounds on TAGs, closed down snipers and all sorts of things with line infantry - the point being if you can make a good tactical move on someone (flanking them, attacking outside of that specialists comfort zone) they can still be very effective, and negate many of the advantages those other models might have. Heavy Infantry is all well and good, but a couple of rounds shooting from someone who has come round the side of them, even using just a rifle, will probably result in a kill.
So yes of course you should use your elite infantry for the special task that they are intended for, but I don't think line infantry should just be hidden away in your deployment zone and forgotten about!
MRRF 300pts
Adeptus Custodes: 2250pts 
Yu Jing | 7 models
Oniwaban (44|0)
Saito Togan (41|0)
Zhanshi Lieutenant (11|1)
Keisotsu Combi (9|0)
: 
JAPANESE SECTORIAL ARMY
KEISOTSU Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife (9 | 2)
DOMARU Chain Rifle, E/M Grenades / Pistol, E/M CCW (27)
KEMPEI Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, CCW, Electric Pulse (17)
ONIWABAN Boarding Shotgun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Monofilament CCW (44)
NINJA Combi Rifle / Pistol, Shock CCW (36)
TOKUSETSU EISEI Doctor Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife (14)
YÁOZĂO Electric Pulse (3)
New Shangri-La Peace Force
Combined Army Shasvastii painting Blog
Yu Jing - Japanese Sectorial Army | 17 models
Kempei BSCC (24|0)
Shinobu (50|0.5)
Haramaki 
