Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

If you can swing Forgeworld stuff, Sabre defense platforms (as already said) are pretty awesome.

I'm scratchbuilding some right now.

Alternatively, I think most of the obvious answers have been covered already, with Vendettas being the top option.

easysauce wrote:

vindicatores have less range then drakes (6"move + 24), have to roll scatter so no auto hits, I can put units in COVER against vindicators, i can get close to your units so you cant use the big blast, I can LOS your tank with cover, (drakes are never out of LOS with a 36" move and 360 turret) dont get regen, dont get 5++, dont get to move 36", are not hit on 6's, can be assaulted...

not even close to the same, not by a long shot.

I have had no problem against lists that spam vindicators, russes, necron monoliths, land raiders...


im not bitching or quiting... all I asked for was how people actually counter them when their codex has poor AA choices, and I stipulated I didnt/cant take storm ravens or dettas

replying to me asking for tactics/units i might not have heard about, with something like "learn to play, spread out and no more problems" isnt helpful, my guys are 2" apart, and spread out as much as allowed by the particuar situation they are in at all times, as they have been for the last 14 years of 40k gaming.

how a 7.5 " torrent template will only hit one or two guys spred out 2" from each other is beyond me,

even in a perfect world with no terrain, no consolodates, or bad diff terrain moves, where I can put models at max coherancy, 3 models will be hit by the bale, at minimun, and 2-4 will be hit from vector...



thankfully someone helpfully pointed out sabre defence platforms which seem like a good low points alternative should taking more ++ save units not work out.

I wasn't trying to say that a vindicator is better than a drake; If I had to choose between both of them, I'd probably choose the drake. What I was saying, is that in the perfect ideal situtation a vindi can do just as much or more damage than a heldrake. The point is to not offer up those ideal situations.

If you had managed already to erase the entire rest of his army with minimal losses on your own, bunkering down against the heldrake(s) should not have been too hard. People have offered plenty of advice in the form of units you can try, allies options, positioning tactics, deployment strategies etc, but every time you mention some situation where the baleflamer negates it. My vindicator does the same thing; it appears only in conversation when I can describe a situation where it completely obliterates things like 600+ point bikernob deathstars, and because of that it seems very OP.

The heldrake can't hold objectives, and more than 90% of the game is won in that way. In your game, you make it sound as if you already had first blood and slay the warlord, all you had to do was not get tabled to win. Keep you units out of sight, buy them a transport to protect them from the heldrake, buy more units and less upgrades army wide, spread your units out, get some invulnerable saves and feel no pain.... There's a ton of ways to deal with it, in the case of your last game, a great way would have been to just weather its slaps for a while.

Only one dude at my club fields heldrakes with regularity, and he isn't wining because most of us are used to playing with armies that would die to any flamer, not just one that happens to be a bit mince'ier.

Strangely my Tau, love busting up Hell Drakes, he usually gets one turn with them since I usually field one unit of Death Rain, and a unit of Fire Knife. However I have to agree with everyone else just field a Vendetta or 2, and smile.

I think more people should consider taking a hadesdrake instead of the baledrake. At a certain point, you saturate infantry killing need of your army, so adding some tank and flyer busting power couldn't hurt. You still retain vector strikes if you REALLY need to kill MEQs.

 minigun762 wrote:
I think more people should consider taking a hadesdrake instead of the baledrake. At a certain point, you saturate infantry killing need of your army, so adding some tank and flyer busting power couldn't hurt. You still retain vector strikes if you REALLY need to kill MEQs.

But why take something sub-par at tank and flyer hunting when you can take something incredibly strong for killing infantry? The tank/flyer hunting roles can be filled by other things, with better weapons.

I think more people should consider taking a hadesdrake instead of the baledrake. At a certain point, you saturate infantry killing need of your army, so adding some tank and flyer busting power couldn't hurt. You still retain vector strikes if you REALLY need to kill MEQs.

I wish people started to consider the Hadesdrake too...mainly because I want to face less Baledrakes

Seriously though, this is terrible advice. Mech has died down so much. The Baleflamer Helldrake is one of the best units in the game. The ability to threaten most troop choices anywhere on the board, wounding on 2's, ignoring all but 2+ saves, and ignoring cover is incredible. There is no reason to ever consider the Hades Autocannon.

I'm not discounting the power of the baledrake. It's probably one of a handful of models keeping Chaos competitive.

My advice was more based on the idea that once you have a pair of baledrakes, adding a hadesdrake if you really need the added AA firepower and didn't want to use allies, could be more useful than a third template.

I'm not discounting the power of the baledrake. It's probably one of a handful of models keeping Chaos competitive.

My advice was more based on the idea that once you have a pair of baledrakes, adding a hadesdrake if you really need the added AA firepower and didn't want to use allies, could be more useful than a third template.

I think that the easy answer for the third FA slot roughly the same amount of points is a unit of Nurgle Spawn. That unit is almost as incredible as the Drake, especially when buffed up with powers.

I just got back from a tournament in quebec called northern defenders.

Out of 26 I placed 14th overall and 19th in best general; with tau.

Two lists I faced were particularly cheesy, one necron flyer spam at 3 nightscythes two doomscythes. Another was double Baledrake. In both cases, I managed to play the missions we were presented with and come out fairly even (win against necrons, lose against chaos by 1 point and 2.5 points respectively.)

First, interceptor is stupid good. An ADL was enough to mitigate the punch so that I could play the mission. Had I been allowed to take my new Stormraven, I would have bashed the chaos player.

Keeping you're units spread, and far enough apart that you don't have to eat flamers continually worked a charm. Even better, allot of armies wised up to the issue and bought cheap transports!

It's not nearly as broken as it's being made out to be.

 JGrand wrote:
Seriously though, this is terrible advice. Mech has died down so much. The Baleflamer Helldrake is one of the best units in the game. The ability to threaten most troop choices anywhere on the board, wounding on 2's, ignoring all but 2+ saves, and ignoring cover is incredible. There is no reason to ever consider the Hades Autocannon.

I think you're mostly right, but in some cases I've been happy to see a Baledrake, whereas a Hadesdrake would have been extremely threatening. Is the Baledrake better in most matchups? Certainly. But if you have two Baledrakes, a third Baledrake will likely provide less benefit than a Hadesdrake. Similarly, if you're primarily looking for anti-flyer instead of anti-infantry (which is certainly conceivable for several Chaos builds) the Hadesdrake is superior to the Baledrake. All in all, while I agree with your advice in most cases, I don't think it's quite that clear-cut.

davou wrote:
I just got back from a tournament in quebec called northern defenders.

Out of 26 I placed 14th overall and 19th in best general; with tau.

Two lists I faced were particularly cheesy, one necron flyer spam at 3 nightscythes two doomscythes. Another was double Baledrake. In both cases, I managed to play the missions we were presented with and come out fairly even (win against necrons, lose against chaos by 1 point and 2.5 points respectively.)

First, interceptor is stupid good. An ADL was enough to mitigate the punch so that I could play the mission. Had I been allowed to take my new Stormraven, I would have bashed the chaos player.

Keeping you're units spread, and far enough apart that you don't have to eat flamers continually worked a charm. Even better, allot of armies wised up to the issue and bought cheap transports!

It's not nearly as broken as it's being made out to be.

Cheap transports, its my way of dealing with the DUCK. My bud usually plays one, last time I was footslogging with ASM, he pretty much just decimated my army. This week I put them all in rhinos, they made it where they were going. Yes he attempts to Vector Strike them, and then burn whatever got out, but Rhinos are an easy and cheap solution.

I haven't tried shooting it down yet with the Storm Raven, it probably isn't impossible with everything being TL. I use my Storm Raven as ground support, perhaps its time I changed that........just seems like a waste.