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I haven't played in ages, so I was thinking of doing daemons, since I can play that in fantasy too. But I'm told square bases are automatically illegal in 40k. Is that correct? If so, can someone point me at the rule?

No they are not illegal for 40k, the models must be mounted on the base they.are supplied with, deamons come with both, as such they may be mounted on both.

 mauleed wrote:
I haven't played in ages, so I was thinking of doing daemons, since I can play that in fantasy too. But I'm told square bases are automatically illegal in 40k. Is that correct? If so, can someone point me at the rule?

If so I have quite a few illegal Tyranids...

A lot of people don't like it because they're "supposed" to be mounted on round bases, but I'm sure most people will understand.

It's not against the rules, and it doesn't give you any kind of advantage anyway, so even if it were I imagine people wouldn't mind. xD

I wouldn't care if my opponent had square bases.

edit: as long as he were playing Daemons that is.

You could also use round bases in FB. They're 25mm wide, so once ranked they take the same amount of space.

It's actually a disadvantage for yourself to use the square bases. It's easier for your opponent to get into B2B with a square based models "points" than it would be a circle base. Granted, it's very very minimul but its there. Go for it.

Deep Strike, smaller grouping means more models under a blast maker.

It's the same issue with bikes - many of them still came with rectangle bases until very recently.

Yeah, there are a whole bunch of 40K minis that used to come with square bases. Bike and monstrous creature bases were square for a lot longer than the current round bases have been around...


The current rules require models to be on the base with which they are supplied. There is no requirement for that base to be round. If an opponent claims otherwise, just ask them to show you the rule.

The only difference between the old RW battleforce and the new one is that the new one comes with oval bases rather than rectangles.

This is a change that happened a month ago.

 insaniak wrote:
Yeah, there are a whole bunch of 40K minis that used to come with square bases. Bike and monstrous creature bases were square for a lot longer than the current round bases have been around...


The current rules require models to be on the base with which they are supplied. There is no requirement for that base to be round. If an opponent claims otherwise, just ask them to show you the rule.

lol

tell that to people who didnt like my OOP grey knights terminators...

they came with standard bases, but for obvious reasons I had to put them on larger ones.


just stirring the pot lol,

my 2 cents is I dont care what shape the base is, just that its as big, if nor bigger then what the standard is.

easysauce wrote:
lol

tell that to people who didnt like my OOP grey knights terminators...

they came with standard bases, but for obvious reasons I had to put them on larger ones.

You didn't 'have to'... There is no requirement in the rules to update your bases to whatever is currenty supplied with the current incarnation of the unit.

 6^ wrote:
I wouldn't care if my opponent had square bases.

edit: as long as he were playing Daemons that is.

Just curious I don't play deamons but a lot of my orks came with square bases, so would you have a problem with that?

 insaniak wrote:

easysauce wrote:
lol

tell that to people who didnt like my OOP grey knights terminators...

they came with standard bases, but for obvious reasons I had to put them on larger ones.

You didn't 'have to'... There is no requirement in the rules to update your bases to whatever is currenty supplied with the current incarnation of the unit.

my IG heavy weapons also came without bases, i have the old metal heavy weapons,
so i dont need to have huge heavy weapons bases for my IG heavy weapons i guess.


again, no rule saying I do, but no one would let that slide in a tourney,

friendly games, sure no problem,

just a time when RAI actually matter more then RAW,

but outside of a tourney Id let it slide as long as we both had fun

easysauce wrote:
my IG heavy weapons also came without bases, i have the old metal heavy weapons,
so i dont need to have huge heavy weapons bases for my IG heavy weapons i guess.

Guard Heavy Weapons are a bit of a different issue because the way that they function in the game has changed significantly since they started coming with the 60mm bases. While there is technically no need to rebase them, teams made up of two separate models cause issues in the current ruleset, so it is generally better in that case to rebase them. Otherwise you will need some sort of house rule to cover how they work.

And having said that, a lot of players do still play with individually based heavies with no dramas at all.

I've never had a problem with mine.

Also, holy crap, welcome back, never expected to see you post here again.

 mauleed wrote:
I haven't played in ages, so I was thinking of doing daemons, since I can play that in fantasy too. But I'm told square bases are automatically illegal in 40k. Is that correct? If so, can someone point me at the rule?

Hey, Ed!

There is no explicit rule, only an implicit indication*. The rulebook states that models are based on the bases they're supplied with. Because daemons are supplied with both round and square bases, many (most) players assume that either are perfectly acceptable. Many players falsely believe that square bases do not confer an advantage, or that they're actually disadvantageous in some way, so don't believe it makes a difference. They provide the following advantages:

1. Smaller DS formations, for reduced risk of Mishap.
2. Wider dispersal, for reduced number of blast marker/template hits.
3. 25mm & 40mm bases are ~40% wider at the widest, increasing distance covered for assaults, shooting, and holding objectives.

After playing with both round and square and starting to feel uncomfortable with the squares, I did a careful analysis and realized that the squares do confer the above advantages with no offsetting disadvantages. I then re-based all the daemons I had on squares and wanted to use in 40k onto round bases to avoid taking advantage. More details here:

(*That no Daemons are currently pictured on square bases in the rulebook.)

does anyone else remember reading somewhere a rule (or something) that stated that models are allowed to be placed on bases larger than what they came with, but are not allowed to go smaller? it would make sense because it would be easier to target bigger bases giving you no advantage. just wondering...

That was last edition.

yukondal wrote:
does anyone else remember reading somewhere a rule (or something) that stated that models are allowed to be placed on bases larger than what they came with, but are not allowed to go smaller? it would make sense because it would be easier to target bigger bases giving you no advantage. just wondering...

As insaniak said, that was last edition.

Also larger bases can give you an advantage. It makes you able to spread out more and have less models caught under Blast, Large Blast Markers, and Templates.

If you really want to be sure (read: if you want to play turneys) just put them on a round base, and then magnetize the square bases to fit under the round base.

That doesn't really work.

The best way to do it is to just use the square bases. they are perfectly legal in 40k and the only legal base for Fantasy.

 mauleed wrote:
I haven't played in ages, so I was thinking of doing daemons, since I can play that in fantasy too. But I'm told square bases are automatically illegal in 40k. Is that correct? If so, can someone point me at the rule?

Actually, it's "more aesthetically pleasing" to use the round bases and then use movement trays with circles cut out of them for Fantasy. GW actually makes some of these movement trays for their Lord of the Rings "War of the Ring" game, and Gale Force 9 has some templates for them as well.

But either way you go, you'll be fine!

Mauleed Defense Force 4 lyfe!

But the rules don't work with those trays. Base to base contact is important and you can't get that with the round trays.

Technically you can't get it with GW's WHFB movement trays either...

I can understand why someone could have a problem with square bases in 40K (though I don't); it slightly affects how the model behaves. I don't get how anyone could have a problem with 25mm round bases instead of 25mm square bases in FB. Once ranked on a tray the unit occupies the exact same space.

 insaniak wrote:
Technically you can't get it with GW's WHFB movement trays either...

yes, but its much better than the round bases. you get the models in BtB with their own unit and you can get proper orientation at the very least.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Crimson wrote:
I can understand why someone could have a problem with square bases in 40K (though I don't); it slightly affects how the model behaves. I don't get how anyone could have a problem with 25mm round bases instead of 25mm square bases in FB. Once ranked on a tray the unit occupies the exact same space.

No, no they don't.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 insaniak wrote:
Technically you can't get it with GW's WHFB movement trays either...

yes, but its much better than the round bases. you get the models in BtB with their own unit and you can get proper orientation at the very least.

For the round ones, if they don't have it built in already you just mark the base increments along the front of the movement tray.

Once ranked on a tray the unit occupies the exact same space.

No, no they don't.

A 25mm round base and a 25mm square base have the exact same frontage when ranked up in a movement tray.