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So who's gonna come out on top? The Imperium? The Orks?
As reinforcements for both sides pile in, who will eventually win?

Its one of those never ending conflicts that will just keep on running until the game eventually dies or GW decides to do a warhammer 50k to sell moar modelzzzz

 Thatguy91 wrote:
Its one of those never ending conflicts that will just keep on running until the game eventually dies or GW decides to do a warhammer 50k to sell moar modelzzzz

True. But then all wars have an end. Doesn't stop us theorising on who the victor will be.

The Imperium will win eventually, likely with Exterminatus. Pyrric victory anyway.

Grey Templar wrote:The Imperium will win eventually, likely with Exterminatus. Pyrric victory anyway.

This is really the only way to end the conflict, I think.

The massive number of Orks is just too much - they have gained a foothold and infested entire continents with their spores, in addition to a regular influx of new warbands who have heard of the "Muvva of all Battles". The Imperium has widened the recruitment zone and is drawing ever more forces from around the Armageddon system into the conflict, whereas Ghazghkull proceeded to weaken Imperial positions by attacking neglected outposts and other surrounding systems. Once magnificent hive cities and manufactorum complexes lie shattered and broken, deserted by all but a few homeless stragglers and deserters seeking to escape the relentless Arbites Punitive Batallions. Many of the Space Marines have left, their lightning strike capabilities of not much use during the trench warfare that resulted out of the Season of Fire that is temporarily locking down entire regions, whilst more and more transports have brought fresh regiments for the grinder.

Imperial High Command is no longer calculating in months or years for the conflict, but in decades. Frankly, I am amazed they have not nuked the planet already, but I suppose this could be due to the precious machinery and tech that is hard to replace - or, to suggest a more grimdark possibility, the military leadership might believe it is better to keep Armageddon in a state of perpetual war in order to draw in ever more Greenskins from all over the galaxy, rather than trying to fight them on a hundred planets simultaneously. A diversionary beacon kept lit by the sacrifice of millions of human soldiers who will never know their true role in this ongoing conflict.

I think they could wrap it up by saying that over a decade the Imperium salvages all they can from the planet, literally packing up all the valuable stuff and moving it elsewhere. And at the end they exterminate the planet.

Could make a nice IA book/campaign.

 Lynata wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:The Imperium will win eventually, likely with Exterminatus. Pyrric victory anyway.

This is really the only way to end the conflict, I think.

The massive number of Orks is just too much - they have gained a foothold and infested entire continents with their spores, in addition to a regular influx of new warbands who have heard of the "Muvva of all Battles". The Imperium has widened the recruitment zone and is drawing ever more forces from around the Armageddon system into the conflict, whereas Ghazghkull proceeded to weaken Imperial positions by attacking neglected outposts and other surrounding systems. Once magnificent hive cities and manufactorum complexes lie shattered and broken, deserted by all but a few homeless stragglers and deserters seeking to escape the relentless Arbites Punitive Batallions. Many of the Space Marines have left, their lightning strike capabilities of not much use during the trench warfare that resulted out of the Season of Fire that is temporarily locking down entire regions, whilst more and more transports have brought fresh regiments for the grinder.

Imperial High Command is no longer calculating in months or years for the conflict, but in decades. Frankly, I am amazed they have not nuked the planet already, but I suppose this could be due to the precious machinery and tech that is hard to replace - or, to suggest a more grimdark possibility, the military leadership might believe it is better to keep Armageddon in a state of perpetual war in order to draw in ever more Greenskins from all over the galaxy, rather than trying to fight them on a hundred planets simultaneously. A diversionary beacon kept lit by the sacrifice of millions of human soldiers who will never know their true role in this ongoing conflict.

That actually sounds like exactly what the Imperium would be doing. Especially since Orks are one of those races that can basically repopulate planets in almost no time flat. If it were an army of Tau or Eldar attacking and they committed Exterminatus then that would be a huge blow against that Xeno race but the loss of that many Orks would only sting for a moment in reality.

Isn't war pretty much won by the Imperium giving that Gazzy left with Yarrick chasing him and leaderless Orks are now fighting strong and organized Imperial forces?

Gazzy wasn't routed. Went off to pick another fight. The Black Templars lost him around the Eye of terror and joined in the fight there according to '13th Black Crusade source book'

Rest assured there is a warboss or 2, but for the time being there ar Oomies to pick on.

 Eetion wrote:

Rest assured there is a warboss or 2, but for the time being there ar Oomies to pick on.

Yeah, but they are not Gazzy, and they are probably fight among themselves now to determine who will lead the remaining Orks.
Easy pickings for the Imperials.

Send in Marbo...war over in a year!

Brother Captain Alexander wrote:Yeah, but they are not Gazzy, and they are probably fight among themselves now to determine who will lead the remaining Orks.
Easy pickings for the Imperials.

Orks have Lieutenants too - I would assume Ghazgkull left someone in charge rather than just pulling out without any last words.
It depends on whether or not said Lieutenant can actually maintain his position - especially during the Season of Fire with its reduced troop movements.

That said, ultimately there's still the issue of spore infestation. Armageddon will keep producing new Orks at a rate quite possibly faster than the existing troops die.
The Imperium did not even manage to cleanse all the Orks that remained behind after the 2nd War of Armageddon, after all - which bit them in the rear later as the Ferals joined the newly arrived invasion force in assaulting Imperial positions.

Honestly if all the guardsmen left for awhile..the orks would just start fighting with each other and the whole ork waaagh would collapse then just show back up and clean up the place if they really "need" it..but they could just blow the whole place up....but really neither of those stories would be very grim dark...I quite like the meatgrinder.

Except they can't do that. A good portion of the planet is still held by the Imperium and it is a vitally important world. Thats why they are fighting over it.

Also, the spores would remain even if large swathes of the Orks kill each other over a prolonged time. In fact, their masses might only grow and grow ... until whatever sustenance those spores need (I know Orks need to eat, but 'shrooms require some basis of growth as well, no?) are no longer there and Armageddon is but a dead husk of a world.

A bit like the Tyranids, just not as efficient but with a lot more entertainment.

The Tau win. Armageddon continues on indefinitely because that's just how GW does things, meanwhile the Tau continue to advance in technology. A few hundred years later a passing gun drone decides the whole situation is too absurd to exist and kills everyone on the planet.

BearsfanUT wrote:
Send in Marbo...war over in one toss of a demo charge!

Fixed that for you.

Imperium has the advantage for now. Based purely off of the most recent fluff I would say Imperium but personally I love Lynatas's theory.

Why does the Imperium have the advantage? Why isn't it a big fat stalemate that it is?

Armageddon is now Ork Disneyland, Ghazzy has accomplished what he wanted there and is now planning on a new op..maybe a Ork Disneyworld

From memory of the Battle for Armageddon background book (which is really good) the Imperium really has backed themselves into a bit of a corner. They've got a major production planet, which still turns out Chimeras to supply most of the sector amongst other things, and they've reclaimed the majority of the hives. They have, for most purposes, won in that there seems to be little chance that the planet will actually fall to the Orks now. Especially since Ghaz got bored and went to do something else.

But the Orks are demonstrably still there, and still turning up (with difficulty, as the Imperials have space superiority) and getting bigger and meaner. It's become an incredibly concentrated Waaargh which the Imperium can't afford to stop fighting, since Armageddon is a hop, skip and jump from Terra amongst other things.

There certainly are voices calling to just exterminatus the place and be done with it, but that just means that the Orks who are on the way will go somewhere else. Which could get messy.

It'll probably settle down to a situation like Barran, of seigemaster fame, where the war won't ever end.

Orks win, as they are vacationing in Orkney land.

Graphite wrote:From memory of the Battle for Armageddon background book [...]

You mean the Codex Armageddon?

The GW fluff pretty much makes it a stalemate - which is understandable, given that it's supposed to be a setting for people to play in, not a story:

"The Imperium has held Ghazghkull's great Waaagh! at Armageddon - just. Terrible sacrifices have been made, fearsome battles fought and the combined might of the Imperial Guard, Titan Legions and Space Marines committed to a dreadful cauldron of fire and destruction unseen in Segmentum Solaris since the dark days of the Age of Apostasy. Even so, it has barely been enough. Shattered hives remain in Ork hands and Imperial forces are fully committed to staving off the green-skinned hordes threatening others. Beyond the planet itself, across the surrounding sectors of space, more Ork pirates and raiders are on the move against worlds left vulnerable by the Imperial commitment to Armageddon. The most rapacious Ork warlords are being drawn to Armageddon like moths to a flame, seeking fame and glory in the greatest battle known amongst their race. The Muvva of All Battles is becoming a legend amongst the warlike Ork race, with rumours abounding that Ghazgkhull has begun the Ragna-Ork, a final apocalypticb attle in which the Orks can truly prove their prowess in the eyes of their violent, primitive gods.

The High Lords of Terra have a less prosaic view. The unification of so many Ork tribes has long been feared in the Imperium. The Armageddon War must continue - the sector cannot be allowed to collapse, lest a tide of green-skinned warriors comes to threaten even hallowed Terra itself. With over half of its industry in ruins and casualties into the billions, Armageddon needs more troops, armaments and ships if it is to hold back the vast pressure of the Ork menace from the heartland of the Imperium. Forces intended for the Tyrannic Wars on the Eastern Fringe have already been diverted to Armageddon, and a 10.000 light year recruitment zone has been established around the planet. Every Imperial world within this zone has had their tithe of Imperial Guard regiments tripled and their industry turned over to armaments production.

Imperial analysts predict that the Ork Waaagh! on Armageddon cannot be maintained, that over a sustained campaign the Orks' supply lines will fail, that their losses cannot be replaced. Those who have fought Orks before are less certain, knowing as they do that resilience and improvisation are the Orks' greatest strengths. All agree, however, that humanity's resolution cannot be dimmed and that human flesh and blood will be the instruments of decision on Armageddon, not tanks and guns.

Armageddon remains a planet at war, a permanent battle zone which promises to remain for decades to come."
- WD #251 : Armageddon - the Aftermath

Wait didn't the ork warlord already turned tail and ran? with Helbretcht and Yarrick in hot pursuit right? wouldn't the orkz waaaagh falter even for a bit without their leader? Thus giving the imperium even a little bit of advantage against them.

Of course not, the second biggest ork just takes over.

 Thatguy91 wrote:
Its one of those never ending conflicts that will just keep on running until the game eventually dies

This, but as the war is going it looks like it will end up like the Second War for Armageddon since Ghazkull left, the Orks will eventually be crushed as a major threat, but the IG will be forced to prevent them from popping up again as feral Orks forever.

I personaly think the imperials will win and most of the ork spores will be eradicated except in the jungles and more difficult enviroments of armaggedon also the imperial forces will be seriously battle hardened which will benefit the imperium greatly thats if they ever leave because its likly that armageddon will be turned into a giant fortres world which will be nearly impossible to invade effectivly.

Until such time as the Imperium deems the Armageddon Sector no longer salvageable, it serves two purposes: to keep the enemy distracted, and to act as a training ground for imperial forces.

The Steel Legionnaires are extremely adept at fighting Ork infestations, and despite the huge numbers being drawn into the mosh pit, the Imperium still manages to deploy Legion units across the galaxy.

Ghazghkull didn't "run" - he withdrew because he got bored with the stalemate and trench warfare that was the Season of Fire and proceeded to lay waste to various other planets surrounding Armageddon, which have been left (relatively) defenseless as the Imperium sent everything it could spare to that world.

Many Space Marine Chapters have left at that time as well, as their lightning strike capabilities just aren't as useful under such circumstances. They have been replaced with an ever-growing number of IG regiments. I expect most Astartes would quickly proceed to Cadia due to the 13th Black Crusade. Thus, at the end of M41, the Imperium is emboriled in two major wars that seem to draw a lot of resources. It's hard to gauge the overall strength of the Imperial Guard, but the limited number of Adeptus Astartes are stretched thin between Armageddon and Cadia.

Arcsquad12 wrote:The Steel Legionnaires are extremely adept at fighting Ork infestations, and despite the huge numbers being drawn into the mosh pit, the Imperium still manages to deploy Legion units across the galaxy.

I think that might just be because they were already underway or engaged in a campaign. Let's keep in mind that Armageddon 3 started close to where the timeline ends - with first reports of Imperial patrol ships mentioning the Ork invasion fleet entering the sector dated "3453999.M41".

When the Imperium is re-routing regiments originally destined to fight the Tyranids, I don't think they would even consider allowing Steel Legion units to leave the Armageddon warzone. The ones fighting elsewhere are simply those who have already been there when Ghazghkull attacked.

On a note of millions of Ork spores remaining in Armageddon...

Valhalla had Orks once, once....
If Space Soviets can do it then there should be no problem for Space Wehrmacht Luftwaffe/Panzergrenadiers.

It'll be a stalemate until the Imperium eventually sends Abaddon running back to the Eye of Terror. After that, they'll sweep over to Armageddon and crush the orks there, for the 2nd time, then move on to Leviathan.