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Made in ph
Battleship Captain




Calixis Sector

The Old Ones and the Eldar both consider their psionic talents as a mark of superiority. Even the Imperium, for all it's fear of the Warp and of Chaos, considers the psychic mutation as merely the harbinger of a great evolutionary change culminating in Mankind taking another step towards perfection as a new, psychic species.

But, is this correct? The Tau and the Necrons certainly don't think so. So who is really correct, the Tau and the Necrons and their belief that psionics is overrated (so to speak), or the other elder races with their belief in psionic superiority?

"In every age, in every place, the deeds of men remain the same" 
   
Made in us
Hellish Haemonculus






Boskydell, IL

I say yes. The Necrons, back in their fleshy days, were a pretty inferior species. (Evoluntionarily speaking...) ((That's part of why I like them. They achieved supremacy through sheer spite...)) They had to discard their original bodies to have any chance at survival.

And I'm not so sure Tau aren't psychic. I just think the Imperium has never met a psychic one. (That they were aware of.) There is ample precedent for weird subtypes of psykers, and I think the Tau might very well be harboring some nastier secrets than anyone suspects...

Welcome to the Freakshow!

(Leadership-shenanigans for Eldar of all types.) 
   
Made in ph
Battleship Captain




Calixis Sector

 Jimsolo wrote:

And I'm not so sure Tau aren't psychic. I just think the Imperium has never met a psychic one. (That they were aware of.) There is ample precedent for weird subtypes of psykers, and I think the Tau might very well be harboring some nastier secrets than anyone suspects...


I like the sound of that...skeletons in the closet...

Well, might as well take this chance. IMHO, yes as well. Any fool can use a gun. Any sapient with a degree of complexity can bomb a world from orbit. But only a psionic (I will be using this term from now on, it sounds nicer than psyker) can bend reality with his/her mind, overcoming technology and the laws of physics alike. To quote Harbinger:

This is true power.

"In every age, in every place, the deeds of men remain the same" 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Holland , Vermont

To be fair..I dont think the Tau even know what to think about Psionics, since they have little to no practical experiance with it.

The Nissicar is the only real friendly race that has it, and we do not know what they have exhibited or told the Tau about it. (other than it makes thier ships go. )

If you are interested in my P&M for my Unified Corp Tau check here ----http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/282731.page
My planetary profile and background story for my Tau is here------http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/351631.page
War Field Boss Marshul Grimdariun's Panzuh Korps http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/353354.page
Tau Prototypes Technical readouts and Data sharing (for all Tau players )http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/412232.page 
   
Made in ph
Battleship Captain




Calixis Sector

 Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:
To be fair..I dont think the Tau even know what to think about Psionics, since they have little to no practical experiance with it.

The Nissicar is the only real friendly race that has it, and we do not know what they have exhibited or told the Tau about it. (other than it makes thier ships go. )


I think they know enough, following the events on Medusa V.

"In every age, in every place, the deeds of men remain the same" 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Holland , Vermont

Likely they know that the key to deeper warp travel is something they do not as yet have, but as to any real understanding of it..I dont really think they do, its very alien to the Tau.

I actually like the fact they dont use space magic..gimme good ole tech

If you are interested in my P&M for my Unified Corp Tau check here ----http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/282731.page
My planetary profile and background story for my Tau is here------http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/351631.page
War Field Boss Marshul Grimdariun's Panzuh Korps http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/353354.page
Tau Prototypes Technical readouts and Data sharing (for all Tau players )http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/412232.page 
   
Made in ph
Battleship Captain




Calixis Sector

 Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:
Likely they know that the key to deeper warp travel is something they do not as yet have, but as to any real understanding of it..I dont really think they do, its very alien to the Tau.

I actually like the fact they dont use space magic..gimme good ole tech


Be careful what you wish for, remember, the Necrons ultimately came to regret their dependence on material technology.

EDIT: Oh the irony. Psionics isn't something alien to Humans or Eldar, but it's very alien to the Tau. Somehow, I'm not sure if having more in common with Mr. Space Elf than with Mr. Alien Imperialist is something to be proud of.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/05 12:51:34


"In every age, in every place, the deeds of men remain the same" 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Holland , Vermont

OK..
Now this is where I may differ from alot of the posters here on dakka but..

I see every faction in 40k on its own path through the fluff history what ever.

Orks , have their own thing IoM, necrons, chaos , and Tau, etc.

I dont assume because such and such happend to this or that, it will happen to that guy over there.

All are on their own paths, thats what makes them interesting, because all the factions are so much different than each other..(well other tham CSM and SM maybe, but 2 sides of a nasty coin)

So I dont draw parallels between the fluff, just enjoy the ride.

End soapbox.

If you are interested in my P&M for my Unified Corp Tau check here ----http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/282731.page
My planetary profile and background story for my Tau is here------http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/351631.page
War Field Boss Marshul Grimdariun's Panzuh Korps http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/353354.page
Tau Prototypes Technical readouts and Data sharing (for all Tau players )http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/412232.page 
   
Made in ph
Battleship Captain




Calixis Sector

I never understood what the soap box is about. Care to explain?

"In every age, in every place, the deeds of men remain the same" 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Holland , Vermont

 Admiral Valerian wrote:
I never understood what the soap box is about. Care to explain?


Its a old expression , that basicaly dates back to a sight gag or expression, to when somebody wanted people to listen to something a person really want to get off their chest/mind, they get up on a soapbox so they can be clearly heard and seen.

It why when someone rants of states something (as I did above) its called getting on your soapbox.

If you are interested in my P&M for my Unified Corp Tau check here ----http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/282731.page
My planetary profile and background story for my Tau is here------http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/351631.page
War Field Boss Marshul Grimdariun's Panzuh Korps http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/353354.page
Tau Prototypes Technical readouts and Data sharing (for all Tau players )http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/412232.page 
   
Made in se
Ferocious Black Templar Castellan






Sweden

 Admiral Valerian wrote:
Any sapient with a degree of complexity can bomb a world from orbit. But only a psionic (I will be using this term from now on, it sounds nicer than psyker) can bend reality with his/her mind, overcoming technology and the laws of physics alike. To quote Harbinger:

This is true power.


The Nightbringer, Deceiver, Outsider and the Void Dragon all scoff at your pathetic display of "power"...

For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back. 
   
Made in ph
Battleship Captain




Calixis Sector

 Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:
 Admiral Valerian wrote:
I never understood what the soap box is about. Care to explain?


Its a old expression , that basicaly dates back to a sight gag or expression, to when somebody wanted people to listen to something a person really want to get off their chest/mind, they get up on a soapbox so they can be clearly heard and seen.

It why when someone rants of states something (as I did above) its called getting on your soapbox.


Oh I see. My thanks, good sir.

"In every age, in every place, the deeds of men remain the same" 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Holland , Vermont

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
 Admiral Valerian wrote:
Any sapient with a degree of complexity can bomb a world from orbit. But only a psionic (I will be using this term from now on, it sounds nicer than psyker) can bend reality with his/her mind, overcoming technology and the laws of physics alike. To quote Harbinger:

This is true power.


The Nightbringer, Deceiver, Outsider and the Void Dragon all scoff at your pathetic display of "power"...


True..not to mention the necron lightbrite room of doom.
Crazy silly super science stuff there...although it does say it reduces a stars lifespan by millenia...not how many millenia, stars do live quite a while...I can see it now, "Ha now that star will only burn for a paltry 100million years instead of the 120million it had left..muwhahaha"

Important to necrons I guess.

If you are interested in my P&M for my Unified Corp Tau check here ----http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/282731.page
My planetary profile and background story for my Tau is here------http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/351631.page
War Field Boss Marshul Grimdariun's Panzuh Korps http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/353354.page
Tau Prototypes Technical readouts and Data sharing (for all Tau players )http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/412232.page 
   
Made in ph
Battleship Captain




Calixis Sector

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
 Admiral Valerian wrote:
Any sapient with a degree of complexity can bomb a world from orbit. But only a psionic (I will be using this term from now on, it sounds nicer than psyker) can bend reality with his/her mind, overcoming technology and the laws of physics alike. To quote Harbinger:

This is true power.


The Nightbringer, Deceiver, Outsider and the Void Dragon all scoff at your pathetic display of "power"...


The last one got it's ass handed to it and then imprisoned by the Emperor.

EDIT: Just a reminder: the psychic might of the Eldar forced the Necrons into hibernation. The newcrons at least; the oldcrons apparently had no fear for the Eldar.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/05 13:13:49


"In every age, in every place, the deeds of men remain the same" 
   
Made in eu
Hallowed Canoness




Ireland

I would say it is a mark of superiority - not the mark of superiority.

Ultimately, it is a higher evolutionary level, but a species can still fail to "mundanes" if the latter are more focused, more numerous, more industrial, more technologically advanced etc.
The Eldar in particular are a species in decline, and their psychic superiority obviously did not prevent that.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/05 14:35:33


 
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

Just like IRL, racism is a subjective phenomenon in the 40k setting, i.e., there is no way to measure racial superiority or inferiority. It seems to me, you're asking whether people with super powers are better than people without super powers. Better at what exactly? Conquering the galaxy? It seems to me the various factions are pretty well at a stand off.. And remember, there are other super powers than psychic ability in the 40k setting.

   
Made in ph
Battleship Captain




Calixis Sector

 Manchu wrote:
Better at what exactly?


As an overall race/civilization. It seems to me that way. The Eldar Empire at it's height was apparently far superior in every respect to the Necron Empire.

"In every age, in every place, the deeds of men remain the same" 
   
Made in us
Banelord Titan Princeps of Khorne




Noctis Labyrinthus

 Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:
Important to necrons I guess.


We can wait.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Admiral Valerian wrote:
The last one got it's ass handed to it and then imprisoned by the Emperor.

EDIT: Just a reminder: the psychic might of the Eldar forced the Necrons into hibernation. The newcrons at least; the oldcrons apparently had no fear for the Eldar.


The Emperor nearly died fighting a starving Void Dragon, only succeeding through finding a weak point in its shell.

It is important to have actually read the fluff you use as evidence.

No, committing genocide on a species of star gods forced the Necrons into hibernation.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/05 18:02:42


 
   
Made in ph
Battleship Captain




Calixis Sector

 Void__Dragon wrote:


The Emperor nearly died fighting a starving Void Dragon, only succeeding through finding a weak point in its shell.

It is important to have actually read the fluff you use as evidence.


The important part is that he won


No, committing genocide on a species of star gods forced the Necrons into hibernation.


And the fact they couldn't stand against the rising star of the new Eldar Empire.

"In every age, in every place, the deeds of men remain the same" 
   
Made in rs
Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control





Holy Terra

 Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:

I actually like the fact they dont use space magic..gimme good ole tech


Warp Travel is not 'space magic', it is essentially using powerful gravity machine to make a hole in reality and open a portal to another universe. It's not space magic but god like technology

The universe has many horrors yet to throw at us. This is not the end of our struggle. This is just the beginning of our crusade to save Humanity. Be faithful! Be strong! Be vigilant!
 
   
Made in ph
Battleship Captain




Calixis Sector

 Brother Captain Alexander wrote:
 Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:

I actually like the fact they dont use space magic..gimme good ole tech


Warp Travel is not 'space magic', it is essentially using powerful gravity machine to make a hole in reality and open a portal to another universe. It's not space magic but god like technology


Ever watched Event Horizon? That's basically what happens when the Geller Field fails. Could qualify as an unofficial 40k film...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/06 10:21:38


"In every age, in every place, the deeds of men remain the same" 
   
Made in us
Banelord Titan Princeps of Khorne




Noctis Labyrinthus

 Admiral Valerian wrote:
The important part is that he won


No actually.

I understand that you are an Imperial fan, but the context and facts of the feat can not be denied.

And the fact they couldn't stand against the rising star of the new Eldar Empire.


After they had exhausted themselves destroying a race of star gods.

So like, are you trolling?
   
Made in ph
Battleship Captain




Calixis Sector

 Void__Dragon wrote:
 Admiral Valerian wrote:
The important part is that he won


No actually.

I understand that you are an Imperial fan, but the context and facts of the feat can not be denied.

And the fact they couldn't stand against the rising star of the new Eldar Empire.


After they had exhausted themselves destroying a race of star gods.

So like, are you trolling?


No, just a consequentialist. The motive and methods don't matter, results do.

"In every age, in every place, the deeds of men remain the same" 
   
Made in us
Banelord Titan Princeps of Khorne




Noctis Labyrinthus

 Admiral Valerian wrote:
No, just a consequentialist. The motive and methods don't matter, results do.


That word doesn't mean what you think it means.

Consequentialism is an ethical theory. It can not be applied to trains of thought/logic, for lack of a better term.

The context is matters far more than the result.

If Anderson Silva had just been hit by a truck and then electrocuted, if I proceed to kick his downed body in the face, did I beat Anderson Silva, the man?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/06 11:04:47


 
   
Made in ph
Battleship Captain




Calixis Sector

 Void__Dragon wrote:

If Anderson Silva had just been hit by a truck and then electrocuted, if I proceed to kick his downed body in the face, did I beat Anderson Silva, the man?


You'd beat a helpless man? Hardly commendable, but you did beat him...so yeah. Though no one else would probably recognize it as such.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/06 11:08:08


"In every age, in every place, the deeds of men remain the same" 
   
Made in gb
Hallowed Canoness





Between

The Necrons were completely owning the Eldar until (oldfluff) the anvils of vaul were built (newfluff) they got bored and decided to fight the C'tan instead.



"That time I only loaded the cannon with powder. Next time, I will fill it with jewels and diamonds and they will cut you to shrebbons!" - Nogbad the Bad. 
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Lynata wrote:
I would say it is a mark of superiority - not the mark of superiority.

Ultimately, it is a higher evolutionary level, but a species can still fail to "mundanes" if the latter are more focused, more numerous, more industrial, more technologically advanced etc.
The Eldar in particular are a species in decline, and their psychic superiority obviously did not prevent that.


There is no such thing as an "evolutionary level". Still, within the settiing being a psyker has advantages (UNLIMITED POWAAAAAAAAAAH!) which are usualy balanced out by serious disadvantages ( Daemons constantly attempting to devour your soul ).
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Earth

 Void__Dragon wrote:
 Admiral Valerian wrote:
The important part is that he won


No actually.

I understand that you are an Imperial fan, but the context and facts of the feat can not be denied.

And the fact they couldn't stand against the rising star of the new Eldar Empire.


After they had exhausted themselves destroying a race of star gods.

So like, are you trolling?


Actually mate, from reading all the posts so far it looks like your trolling.

There is no evidence that the big e was fighting a starving void dragon
(I do agree that it was though, makes sense) that is fan conjecture.

It is fact that the newcrons went into hiding because of the eldar, yes they had been severely weakened,
But thats why you hide, if they had said "da necrons was kicking donkey all over the universe,massacreing all before them, but!!! It's time for sleeps.. Night night" it would be dumb.
   
Made in gb
Mighty Vampire Count






UK

 Furyou Miko wrote:
The Necrons were completely owning the Eldar until (oldfluff) the anvils of vaul were built (newfluff) they got bored and decided to fight the C'tan instead.


Corrected:

The servants of the C'Tan, the Necrons were completely owning the Eldar until they betrayed their overlords and managed to defeat them at tremendous cost - severely weakened and without the full power of the C'tan, they were now at the mercy of the vengeful Eldar and unable to stand against them retreated into hiding.

OT
I think as others have said - it can a sign of superiority but also a potential weakness with regards to the dangers of the Warp.

Also re the eldar - their dark kin have abandoned their psyker heritage and are growing in strength and numbers rather than declining.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/06 16:04:25


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A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
Made in us
Banelord Titan Princeps of Khorne




Noctis Labyrinthus

 Formosa wrote:
Actually mate, from reading all the posts so far it looks like your trolling.

There is no evidence that the big e was fighting a starving void dragon
(I do agree that it was though, makes sense) that is fan conjecture.

It is fact that the newcrons went into hiding because of the eldar, yes they had been severely weakened,
But thats why you hide, if they had said "da necrons was kicking donkey all over the universe,massacreing all before them, but!!! It's time for sleeps.. Night night" it would be dumb.


Oh yeah? You think so?

"'So who are those women?' asked Dalia, pointing towards the procession as it made its way down a road of hard-packed earth towards
a long scar in the ground from which drifted a mephitic fog.
'They are the handmaidens of the King of Cyrene's daughter, Cleodolinda, and they are taking her to her death. Within that wound in
the earth dwells the Dragon, a fearsome creature recently awoken after a great war with its kin, which seeks refuge on this world to
feed and regain its strength.
'
'The Dragon.'
'Yes, the Dragon,' agreed Semyon. 'It has slain all the knights of the city and demands the sacrifice of a beautiful maiden every day. It
feasts on their terror, growing stronger with each feeding
, but all the young girls of Cyrene are dead. The king's daughter alone
remains, and now she goes to her death.'"

Please actually read the fluff in question before you accuse others of trolling and lying.

It is a technical truth that the Eldar forced them into hiding, to regain their strength, but it doesn't work as evidence of "psionic superiority" because in order for them to accomplish this feat, the Necrons had to be weakened by a war with the most powerful species in the Materium.
   
 
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