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Instead of practicing thread necromancy on my earlier topic, I'll start a new one here.

Basically, I found the profile for Gabriel Angelos that GW provided to 4chan, and decided to nerf them (they were super cheesy) and after various critiques, I have, IMO, a good set of rules for a special Chapter Master Character for C:SM

Feel free to view these rules and give your input, I am by no means finished with these.

EDIT: He is a special Chapter Master with a sensible Chapter Tactics for the Blood Ravens, while not being game-breaking or cheesy. Those looking to run a Blood Ravens specific army can use this (with opponents permission, because this is not a GW, nor FW endorsed rule-set). Questions/Comments/Feedback can be posted in this thread or PMed to me.

The front page will be continually updated have the latest version of any changes outside of an actual update, so if you aren't interested in scrolling, they latest rules version and Errata/FAQ will be here

Errata:

He's still too good for his cost.

Let's take a Captain from C:SM and build him up.

100pts base
+Artificer Armour and Plasma Pistol
-30pts
+Thunderhammer
-30pts

Which gives us 160pts before any special-ness.

Now we mastercraft the hammer (+5pts), Daemonbane it (let's give it +5pts), and the special rule it has for another (+5pts), bringing him to 175pts for base wargear.

He has an additional wound and attack, which is hard to judge, so I'll get back to them.

Swapping combat tactics for counter-attack is nice, not stupidly powerful, but decent. We'll call it a 10pts upgrade, as the army can be built to exploit this ability. His other ability that grants stubborn and reduces chaos leadership will be another 10pts upgrade.

Our total is now in the ballpark of 195pts.

Now, for the really awesome part; his ability to assault after deepstriking. Really, REALLY powerful when you consider what units he can do this with. Vanguard vets can do this, but they very cost prohibitive, considering a base squad is 175pts if they want to even use their ability. Gabriel, however, is a beatstick, and can confer this ability to the squad he joins, which is what really breaks this rule. In fact, I'm just plain not a fan of it for the simple reason that the overwhelming vast majority of units in the game cannot do this. I'd seriously recommend replacing this ability. Not to mention furious charge on that assault. Very broken.

Now, ignoring that rule above, for an additional 15pts, he has an extra wound and an extra attack. Both rather nice improvements to the statline. No real hard and fast rule for what they cost, but I can assure you it should be more than 15pts for both. Consider that ork warbosses pay 15pts for an additional attack, 10-15pts is reasonable for a marine as well. The extra wound would be another 10pts, bringing him to ~220pts.

Eternal warrior is a very powerful ability, and the Black Templars are the only marine chapter I'm aware of that has a purchaseable item that semi grants this ability. It is a +35pts upgrade, and although the codex is dated, still a reasonable starting point. Assuming 30pts is reasonable for ignoring all instant death effects, he effectively becomes 250pts; and that's without his rule to assault from deepstrike.

It seems high, but he is, afterall, a force multiplier HQ that can't be killed instantly with 4 wounds and 4 attacks at S8 AP2, which means a lot in the current game. That and custom characters should err on the side of underpowered before extensive playtesting.

Food for thought.

Thoughts duly noted:

Removed Taste the Fury of the Blood Ravens, In the times I tested him with my usual list, it doesn't seem to be that effective, like the Heroic Intervention on Vanguards, it is very chancy, and not very likely to actually be useful most times.

Raised price by 10 points

Only changes thus far, keep giving feed back.

Changes:

Edited the wording on My Foe Shall Fall!, fixed the unit type to ad IC, and removed that lesser entrophic strike and replaced it with Crushing blow; both do the exact same thing: Crushing Blow sounds better on a Space Marine

Please feel free to download and comment on these rules, any and all feedback is appreciated

Changes: Raised price to 220 Points, and refined Crushing blow to be able to apply to Shooting and Melee attacks (incase someone wants to use this rule). Figured out that Daemons don't have Eternal Warrior, so changed Daemonbane to Preferred Enemy(CD & CSM), and made the Bolt Pistol standard, making the Plasma Pistol 10 points and the inferno Pistol 15 points. Added allowing Librarians to roll on the Divination table to the Chapter Tactics to reflect the unique reliance on Diviners in the Blood Ravens Army.

Feel Free to download, and PLEASE send me feedback, the olny way i can make these rules better is unbiased advise from fellow gamers, so your cooperation is very greatly appreciated.

chrushing blow should be changed to that the iniative drops by a d6 to minimum of 1 and the said target cannont run, use fleet of foot, use a waaagh benefit and movement changed to a d6 instead of 6". this is to show the enemy trying to stumble forward sort of like when your really dizzy. also possibly change the armour to a d6 as that may be the armour actually being moulded into a better shape to stop blows or loosened, dont know about the last wee bit there. or possibly minus the save by one such as a 5+ would now be a 6+ etc.

UPDATE:
Changed Crushing Blow to modify armor save by D3, like going from a 2+ to a 5+ on a roll of 3. Makes big, tough units like a Wraithknight more squishy if Gabriel fails to kill it, but wounds it with is one big hammer attack.

Please no locks for thread Necromancy, that would be appreciated much, I need this open to post regular updates to material in order to make them better. As always feedback is greatly encouraged.

Well It would seem logical to figure out the cost of God Splitter on it's own so as to more accurately discern a fair price for him as a whole.

Aside from that I think you're definitely on a good path
(Mind you I'm not the most knowledgeable when it comes to rules.)

My local GW manager seems to think that four wounds and four attacks is under priced at a 190 point model, although his words were more "four attacks AND four wounds? really?"
I got the approval stamp by knocking him down to 3 attacks and 3 wounds.

Also need clarification on "My Faith is my Shield" Is that meant to be Imperial Guard Allies only, or does it include other space marine chapters and sisters as well?

Considering the fact that C:SM seems to be going towards all CMs having 4W and 4A, I imagine if you used the version of him after the end of all the DOW:II expansions he would be fine with 4W and 4A.

Cost wise, as a base, 125 for 4W and 4A seems fair, since the Captain base is now 90, so it's a jump of 35 points. How you want to deal with orbital bombardment is up to you, we should have a better idea when C:SM drops in a month.

So 125 base, plus, say, 10 for Chapter tactics, and 10 for My Faith is my shield, gets you to 145. Artificer Armor gets you to 160. The Thunder Hammer is +30, Mastercrafting is usually 10, and the My Foe Shall Fall is very high risk, high reward, so maybe +5. So +45 for that weapon, probably.

I'm torn on crushing blow. It seems to really totally screw over MCs, but it would be a fairly rare thing. You'd have to 1) get into CC with an MC, 2) survive their attacks, since they're probably hitting before you and might be dropping blows that could ID, 3) use My Foe Shall Fall and roll a 3 on a d3, and then 4) actually wound with the blow. Ignoring 1 and 2, you've got about a 27.5% chance of getting a crushing blow to land (assuming wounding on a 2+).

Still it seems downright mean to be able to waltz up to an MC and take it's save from 3+ to 5+ or 2+ to 4+ or something. Maybe make it's armor save just be reduced by one, or maybe do what some psychic powers (Ezekiel's mainly) do, reducing WS and BS, or maybe A. That would still be sufficient to seriously weaken MCs.

Though I will say, as an SM player, I like the way crushing blow cripples all those pesky xenos MCs.

Also, seeing as his incarnation at the end of DOW:II Retribution has a lot of cybernetics it might make sense to give him some form of FNP. The new Iron Hand rules are rumored to give 6+ FNP and IWND, and that's supposedly due to their cybernetics, so maybe add something in like that to be fluffy, but that's just me, and feel free to ignore it.

pacmanwa wrote:My local GW manager seems to think that four wounds and four attacks is under priced at a 190 point model, although his words were more "four attacks AND four wounds? really?"
I got the approval stamp by knocking him down to 3 attacks and 3 wounds.

Also need clarification on "My Faith is my Shield" Is that meant to be Imperial Guard Allies only, or does it include other space marine chapters and sisters as well?

I have been running it as all imperials.

Just a note, I forgot about the price, 190 was from an earlier incarnation that had a power sword base. I will get to that (plus Chapter Masters are getting 4W and 4A base in 2 weeks anyway, new codex).

DogofWar1 wrote:Considering the fact that C:SM seems to be going towards all CMs having 4W and 4A, I imagine if you used the version of him after the end of all the DOW:II expansions he would be fine with 4W and 4A.

Cost wise, as a base, 125 for 4W and 4A seems fair, since the Captain base is now 90, so it's a jump of 35 points. How you want to deal with orbital bombardment is up to you, we should have a better idea when C:SM drops in a month.

So 125 base, plus, say, 10 for Chapter tactics, and 10 for My Faith is my shield, gets you to 145. Artificer Armor gets you to 160. The Thunder Hammer is +30, Mastercrafting is usually 10, and the My Foe Shall Fall is very high risk, high reward, so maybe +5. So +45 for that weapon, probably.

I'm torn on crushing blow. It seems to really totally screw over MCs, but it would be a fairly rare thing. You'd have to 1) get into CC with an MC, 2) survive their attacks, since they're probably hitting before you and might be dropping blows that could ID, 3) use My Foe Shall Fall and roll a 3 on a d3, and then 4) actually wound with the blow. Ignoring 1 and 2, you've got about a 27.5% chance of getting a crushing blow to land (assuming wounding on a 2+).

Still it seems downright mean to be able to waltz up to an MC and take it's save from 3+ to 5+ or 2+ to 4+ or something. Maybe make it's armor save just be reduced by one, or maybe do what some psychic powers (Ezekiel's mainly) do, reducing WS and BS, or maybe A. That would still be sufficient to seriously weaken MCs.

Though I will say, as an SM player, I like the way crushing blow cripples all those pesky xenos MCs.

Also, seeing as his incarnation at the end of DOW:II Retribution has a lot of cybernetics it might make sense to give him some form of FNP. The new Iron Hand rules are rumored to give 6+ FNP and IWND, and that's supposedly due to their cybernetics, so maybe add something in like that to be fluffy, but that's just me, and feel free to ignore it.

Will seriously consider the bionics FNP, the IWND might be a little to much. And this is indeed post retribution Angelos.

Which brings me toa new thing going on between profile updates: ERRATA

Yes, even this home-brew is getting the Errata treatment, but this is for mistakes i made in a prior update that doesn't warrant an immediate change. I hope to keep these Minimal, as to not stack up like the GW Errata (and if you ask questions, they will be answered in the errata.

Considering the fact that C:SM seems to be going towards all CMs having 4W and 4A, I imagine if you used the version of him after the end of all the DOW:II expansions he would be fine with 4W and 4A.

Wouldn't that be the version that got smashed flat and killed?

 Psienesis wrote:

Considering the fact that C:SM seems to be going towards all CMs having 4W and 4A, I imagine if you used the version of him after the end of all the DOW:II expansions he would be fine with 4W and 4A.

Wouldn't that be the version that got smashed flat and killed?

He didn't die, he was rescued, revived and cyberneticly enhanced and reconstructed.

In accordance with the 6th Edition update of Codex: Space Marines, so has Gabriel Angelos' profile been updated for compatibility with the new codex (for the most part ). Here is the profile, streamlined and updated to the same (or close) standards as our glorious new codex.

Note: If you guys want a spoiler version and not a PDF, just let me know; and any questions, comments and feedback are always welcome.

Seems pretty good, as he seems more like a buffed CM rather than a special character. The chapter tactics are also balanced, although being able to take divination seems a little too much. Otherwise, for easier reading, the profiles for God-Splitter would be nice in a table.

EDIT: Apologies for thread-necro.

 Timmy149 wrote:
Seems pretty good, as he seems more like a buffed CM rather than a special character. The chapter tactics are also balanced, although being able to take divination seems a little too much.

It is stated in the fluff to be able to check in on the future, and predict the enemies movements, similar to the RTS interfaces of DoW & DoW 2 (Basically Scrier's Gaze from Divination)

For those wishing more insight into how MFSF! works, I've made a list illustrating how it works (for clarification purposes)

Roll a D3 instead of Attacks

D3 = 1 - You missed

D3 = 2 - Hits once: S9 AP2 <normal TH special rules>, roll another D3 for armor penetration (ala rending on vehicles)

D3 = 3 - Hits once: S10 AP2 <normal TH special rules>, Armorbane, Crushing Blow (victim subtracts D3 from armor save)

I'd also take into consideration that not EVERY ability has to have an absolute point cost tax. You should factor in how often said character is going to use the ability and then base the cost off of that.

Just because a character has a thunderhammer AND a plasma pistol doesn't mean it needs to cost 45 pts. How often will he use the plasma pistol if hes supposed to be in close combat? When building your own character from a codex you don't buy a plasma a pistol for someone who wont fire it, so you really shouldn't charge 15 pts

Something to note