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Continuing on from a previous thread which focused on Games Workshops possible closure of business in Australia the same way they did Canada, the issue of postage pricing has come up.

It would seem that being asked to pay 55 pound sterling to post one 17ml pot of paint from the UK to Australia was a bit excessive. So I did a little digging.

The first image shows the disparity between Games Workshop and Forgeworld. For similarly shaped and weighted items to show a price disparity of 53.5 pound sterling is a tad concerning.



At a glance these prices reflect UPS pricing at premium international courier rates, versus the pricing of the UK mail service (vastly cheaper).

The second image, shows the price disparity of sending a Games Workshop Battleforce to Australia and the USA. Note, as I have the battleforce and measured out the rough dimensions and weight, I was able to confirm that the pricing for UPS shipping to Australia lines up almost exactly with what Games Workshop charges, explaining that they may use UPS to ship here. The concerning part is that the cost of shipping to the USA is less than a 3rd of the typical UPS charge - meaning they do not use UPS to ship to the USA.



This would in effect mean that Games Workshop Ltd in the UK are deliberately choosing to ship via UPS to Australia at premium courier rates, yet choosing to ship to the USA using British Royal Mail International, who provide reasonable rates to all countries.

It is also coincidental that with the shipping charges added and converted into their respective currencies, that they are significantly inflated cost wise to the RRP charged rate being sold in their respective countries. Suffice to say there is deliberate and calculated motive to force customers to purchase Games Workshops goods locally.

USD Conversion - $124.49 versus US RRP of $105 (19% Markup)
AUD conversion - $220.94 versus AU RRP of $160 (37% Markup)

My query is, would it be against trade law to serve one country using one shipping method versus another option just to force those countries to buy locally? Whilst it isn't directly modifying the postage costs that are charged out by UPS, it is a blatantly obvious attempt to screw the customer. Especially since two years ago, just prior to the UK embargo, the prices for shipping to Australia were based on British Royal Mail International as were the US shipping prices. This I know for a fact as I had parcels sent out to both Australia and the US back then via Forgeworld, Games Workshop and Wayland Games.

Does nobody else get tired of threads who make out that Australia is being hard done by and make no mention of the fact that the minimum wage in the country is through the roof? If GW wanted to offer similar overseas practices to Australia they could, it would mean sacrificing GW stores in the country though. No "trade laws" are being broken by protecting your own interests.

Does nobody get tired of that post in those threads?

You've completely missed the fact that the exchange rate isn't 32 cents to the pound anymore, its 68 cents. This is what the original pricing was based on back then. It simply hasn't caught up which is where the disparity comes from. Added to the fact GW have deliberately changed providers in a forced effort to push their customers to buy from GW stores in their own country.

This thread has nothing to do with the average income sorry. Minimum wage does not mean that everyone is ON minimum wage, it merely means they can get away with paying people that if a business so chooses.

I don't often see that post to be honest.

At the end of the day GW give you the option to buy locally and if you choose not to do so they charge you a premium because you choose not to support the local set up (which costs a lot more to run in your country because of high overheads brought on by a near double minimum wage). A high minimum wage means a higher cost of living. If you want to have your cake (enforce higher average payments than most countries) and eat it (buy cheap imports) then watch your high street go down the pan.

Simple.

 Morachi wrote:

This thread has nothing to do with the average income sorry. Minimum wage does not mean that everyone is ON minimum wage, it merely means they can get away with paying people that if a business so chooses.

I think you'll find the average GW worker outside of Australia will be on much lower than the minimum wage in your country.

By that logic, we'd be doing the local GW staffers a favour then to have them seek employment with a business that doesn't haul them over the coals like slaves. Perhaps if GW changed their business model from "bleed customers dry" and thought that perhaps by charging reasonable rates that more buy in would occur... then they could afford to pay people a decent wage.

No one I know actually frequents GW stores here in Australia, as they all support the discounted FLGS or buy in bulk from overseas. Those FLGS are rapidly dropping GW as the pricing disparity continues to affect new uptake of products.

In short, they've priced themselves out of what Australians can afford as luxury items - even with our "fantastic" minimum wage, which I might add can't pay a $500 a week rent here in Sydney.

 BolingbrokeIV wrote:
Does nobody else get tired of threads who make out that Australia is being hard done by and make no mention of the fact that the minimum wage in the country is through the roof? If GW wanted to offer similar overseas practices to Australia they could, it would mean sacrificing GW stores in the country though. No "trade laws" are being broken by protecting your own interests.

Ask H.M.B.C. about how GW represents in Australia.

Ask any Australian for that matter - i've been active in the GW hobby since 1996, and i've never seen it so desperate and disgusting.

 Morachi wrote:
By that logic, we'd be doing the local GW staffers a favour then to have them seek employment with a business that doesn't haul them over the coals like slaves. Perhaps if GW changed their business model from "bleed customers dry" and thought that perhaps by charging reasonable rates that more buy in would occur... then they could afford to pay people a decent wage.

No one I know actually frequents GW stores here in Australia, as they all support the discounted FLGS or buy in bulk from overseas. Those FLGS are rapidly dropping GW as the pricing disparity continues to affect new uptake of products.

In short, they've priced themselves out of what Australians can afford as luxury items - even with our "fantastic" minimum wage, which I might add can't pay a $500 a week rent here in Sydney.

The wage in GW stores in the UK and the US in line with most retail work. You'd be hard pressed to find a manager of any high street store in the Uk who earns what the Aus minimum wage converts at currently. the same goes for the people working in the distribution centres and those delivering.

As for your last comment, like I already said, a higher minimum wage equals a higher cost of living.

 BolingbrokeIV wrote:
Does nobody else get tired of threads who make out that Australia is being hard done by and make no mention of the fact that the minimum wage in the country is through the roof?

Does nobody else get tired of posters who make out that minimum wage is a major contributing factor towards GW prices?

I mean, never mind the fact that they do the same thing to New Zealand, Japan, Brazil, South Africa... and so on.

As already stated, this is a purely GW related wage arguement you're putting forward. Minimum wage is not the sole factor here and you'd be naive to believe that the case.

As i've also said, the disparity is based on the currency back in the mid 1990's and has not been adjusted accordingly.

You also seem to be under the assumption that even though our minimum wage is high our expenses are low.

We pay nearly $2 a litre for petrol, rent is around $500 a week for a small average place, my last power bill with no heating and minimal aircon is $500 a quarter, and is set to rise 20% over the next two years.

Our internet is slower and more expensive than many countries and we have low (admittedly getting better) data caps.

We pay more for everything here, to the point where the government is now investigating companies that charge us more for goods delivered electronically than every other country - just because they can.

I earn a fairly good wage - a friend came over from the US thinking I must live like a king and was stunned when they saw the cost of even Macdonalds double what they pay in the states.

So, please, understand when I say that GW is simply too expensive here, many people are turning to other gaming systems such as Warmachine, where a price disparity doesn't exist.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 BolingbrokeIV wrote:
Does nobody else get tired of threads who make out that Australia is being hard done by and make no mention of the fact that the minimum wage in the country is through the roof?

Does nobody else get tired of posters who make out that minimum wage is a major contributing factor towards GW prices?

I mean, never mind the fact that they do the same thing to New Zealand, Japan, Brazil, South Africa... and so on.

You have two shops. One pays the staff twice as much as the other but to all other apearances they are exactly the same. Do you think the store paying higher wages can afford to sell their products at the same rate as the one not doing so? Kind of simple to understand even at the most basic level, not considering the wages of those who distributed/sorted etc.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

darkslife wrote:
You also seem to be under the assumption that even though our minimum wage is high our expenses are low.

No like I said. A higher minimum wage means a higher cost of living.

Like you explain, a lot of things in your country cost a premium. What makes you think GW products are going to be exempt from this rule.

It is a gross simplification and quite naive to try and claim that minimum wage is a major factor in such things.

And I forgot Canada in my post as well. I guess when the Canadian dollar strengthened and GW prices didn't change it was all to do with minimum wage as well - right?

I think it's pretty naive to think that paying staff twice the wage to do the same job is not a major factor in such things. But there you go.

Oh no! GW must be using an expensive menthod just to spite you! Or perhaps there is a good reason? Perhaps you could ask them?

To me it looks like they are basing it on dilivery speed. Both those costs are roughtly in line with 5 day shipping for parcel force, its just that to go to the US is quicker so they can use a cheaper method. That would be my guess rather than trying to rip people off.

Forge world use basic royal mail post because they don't care how long stuff takes.

They didn't seem to care about it too much before this embargo. In fact it diverted a lot of sales towards their UK site before they proposed this new shipping.

I guess they felt they had to up the quality since they had gained so much attention.

I think whats naive is making claims that paying Aus staff more equates to more expensive prices.
You need to know the basics, GW is a global company. Just like ... they have china make products for cheaper, yet they wont
pass the saving to us , nor will it be cheaper to the chinese. Or... like how they were supposed to save money from finecast,
but they didn't lower the price and pass the savings on to us.

Now, I'll explain the disparity, its simple really.
GW got greedy and over charged Aussies because they can when they first went into the Aus market.
Now, if GW ever lower the price to match the world's their sale will be down effective immediately by 50%
GW have no confidence that in this niche market, the lowered price will guarantee 50% extra purchases to equal the sales.
Because they don't want the investors to freak out, they will never lower the prices.

Now don't bring in the minimum wage lies, look at Canadians, would you like to claim we don't exist?
Because we do, and your minimum wage theory fails if applied to every country that isn't Aus.
Case in point, your theory is flawed ; or as I would say lol... trusting GW's bs lies -.-

Just vote with your feet, whether you choose to buy GW products or not, regardless of the location of the supplier.

There's enough backdoors in the whole embargo/shipping ripoff business that can be circumvented with enough ingenuity, without breaking the law.

Living in Sydney is an expensive preposition, but the WWW has opened so many borders and given us so many choices, I don't notice GW product any more unless someone points out a particularly amazing sculpt to me.

Given the new shipping method changed at almost exactly the same time the UK Embargo was put in place, it does sound like too much of a coincidence.

As for the minimum wage argument, here are some figures for you to consider - in USD;

USD - 7.25 /hr
CAD - 8.04 /hr
UK - 8.53 /hr
NZ - 8.63 /hr
AUS - 9.54 /hr

Here's the source - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/14/minimum-wage-world_n_2686049.html#slide=more280945

So you're not looking at double. Want to phone a friend?

Our min wage is about $10 an hour, and all shops are 1 man jobs. They are open 5 days a week. They do not get overtime. 8 hour days.

So they pay, for a shop, $80 a day in wages.

A stormraven costs $110, a land raider (a kit long since paid off all expenses and is now just material/shipping cost) is also $110.

There is no local studio, no local white dwarf staff, and a very tiny management team for the nation.

In comparison, I can get Warmachine Colossal for $120, and that is a huge (usually around 50%) of an army. They aren't even overpowered, must have models, like the update book (priced at $43 here) makes space marine fliers.

When forgeworld is cheaper than regular stuff, you have a problem, one that could be solved by closing shop and supporting LGS instead of directly competing with them, which is often what they do here.

darkslife wrote:
When forgeworld is cheaper than regular stuff, you have a problem, one that could be solved by closing shop and supporting LGS instead of directly competing with them, which is often what they do here.

Most GW defenders cant get into the concept that GW is a global company , and if something isn't cost effective they'll pull out.
The only reason GW didn't pull out yet is, there are still customers, and they are still making some sort of profit (wow o_o...)
But we can see GW's desperation hence the embargo, they really want that Aus pie :3

The problem with the wage in Australia is that the dollar is so high.
In the past when the AU was like 60c to the US dollar our wages on a world scale were considered around the same. eg. That $50,000 per year AU back in the day was only really $30,000 US.
Throw in the GFC and the Aussie dollar goes up to record highs and that $50,000AU now given the current exchange rate is over $50,000 US. So just by currency rate increase the so call wage increase is like an extra $20,000 in wealth.

So what happens to this extra $20,000 of so called extra wealth? Nothing really because property, power, water, food and pretty much everything stays at the same level and increases with inflation.

Goods that are brought overseas given the high AU should be cheap because our buying power is so much greater and we are seeing this on some goods but not others. eg Current Federal Inquiry into IT pricing. - Fly to the US buy Adobe Collection and have a holiday and Fly home is cheaper than buying it online it.

I had no problem with the price of GW items about 8 years ago when that Land Raider was $110AU when the AU was only buying $0.60US.

Basically they saw that Aussies were still buying their goods, even if it was through US/UK channels - meaning there was a market here for their goods. They naively thought that if the embargo was in place and they circumvented the price disparity by enforcing premium shipping prices, that we would continue buying their goods at the local rate... in an unstable economy. Really GW?

I guess their propaganda runs deep inside their own office as well, do they realise there are other companies out there rapidly taking up the market fleeing GW akin to rats from a sinking ship? GW must be smoking something to think their ship is actually a yellow submarine.

Whether or not minimum wage is an issue (I think that's bull but for arguments sake) is irrelevant. As are all other considerations here other than 1.

GW have priced themselves out of the Australian market.

Sales have been dropping by about 10% a year for several years now. The Hobbit has been a complete flop here (more so than everywhere else). There are STILL copies if crusade of fire in my local GW. Down in Sydney my mate tells me that GW have tried the move just next to a FLGS and take it out of business approach in at least 2 locations and at both it is the GW store that is constantly empty. The fact that they need the embargo(s) thing paints a pretty clear picture that they know people are buying way too much from overseas sellers.

Simple fact is GW are losing ground rapidly in the Australian market and they are doing anything they can to keep it from being unprofitable but they aren't addressing the issues, just trying to hide them. The cost of operating brick and mortar stores can not possibly account for our utterly fethed up prices.

The shipping costs is them intentionally forcing us to buy from GW Australia as it is blatantly more expensive. We know it, they know it and they know it is the only thing keeping their investors from panicking about the Australian market problems.

 Morachi wrote:
Given the new shipping method changed at almost exactly the same time the UK Embargo was put in place, it does sound like too much of a coincidence.

As for the minimum wage argument, here are some figures for you to consider - in USD;

USD - 7.25 /hr
CAD - 8.04 /hr
UK - 8.53 /hr
NZ - 8.63 /hr
AUS - 9.54 /hr

Here's the source - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/14/minimum-wage-world_n_2686049.html#slide=more280945

So you're not looking at double. Want to phone a friend?

The minimum wage in australia is currently 15.96 us dollars. So yes more than double. You can get as many sources for that you want just by typing it into google.

Then provide sources like they have with their claim.

Which I might add has only happened in the last couple of weeks. That wage is also based at over 21's.

Still want to explain prior to this last two week period what was going on?

Ok from an aus government website http://www.fairwork.gov.au/pay/national-minimum-wage/pages/default.aspx

 BolingbrokeIV wrote:

 Morachi wrote:
Given the new shipping method changed at almost exactly the same time the UK Embargo was put in place, it does sound like too much of a coincidence.

As for the minimum wage argument, here are some figures for you to consider - in USD;

USD - 7.25 /hr
CAD - 8.04 /hr
UK - 8.53 /hr
NZ - 8.63 /hr
AUS - 9.54 /hr

Here's the source - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/14/minimum-wage-world_n_2686049.html#slide=more280945

So you're not looking at double. Want to phone a friend?

The minimum wage in australia is currently 15.96 us dollars. So yes more than double. You can get as many sources for that you want just by typing it into google.

Not to be obvious but... the guy you quoted also included a source for the wage figures.
Not doubting your "double" to be wrong, but why don't you include your source too before you dismiss his?