Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

On the subject of higher minimum wages i'd like to add :

In Australia we have:

Relatively high income tax
A consumption tax
Mandatory superannuation input
A fresh new "save the world" consumption tax
Insane house prices which leads to high rents.

As others in this thread have pointed out,all this talk of high wages means nothing if the disposable income does not increase.

Bullockist wrote:
Insane house prices which leads to high rents.

This is something that gets overlooked a lot. A very, very small 2 bedroom house on the outskirts of Sydney is minimum $300,000 if you are buying a free standing house, $400,000 if you are building new. Rent sits at about $300per week if you are lucky, mortgage repayments at about $400per week if you managed to save a very good deposit. Housing alone is generally taking half of your weekly income if you are earing the average wage in Australia. Anecdotally, no working families I know earn the average wage.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
And Brazil, where a Tactical Squad is AUD$51 (to Oz’s AUD$60), their minimum wage is 1/4th that of the US. The US price for a Tac squad is AUD$35.

Minimum wage is not the contributing factor people make it out to be.

I must've been completely ignored, because I addressed why this could be a few posts ago.

We're more addressing the people who bleat "Minimum wage! Minimum wage!" whenever the talk of variying regional prices come up and just how much minimum wage doesn't factor into these sorts of decisions.

GW's Australian prices are based upon exchange rates from a decade ago, when there was 3:1 $:£ conversion rate, and AUD:US was 2:1. Those exchange rates were a long time ago though, and we've been sitting at 3:2 $:£ for a while now and AUD has been either equal to or higher than the US dollar since 2006 (with a brief dip to about AUD60c/US$1 for about half a year 2008, also known as the GFC - I remember as I was buying BattleTech minis at the time and was very aware of the sudden shift in exchange rates).

Now we all accept import duties and shipping and whatnot. That's fine - we live half a world away from where these things get made - but the sheer disparity in prices is alarming.

There are plenty of companies that keep prices consistent. There's no reason GW couldn't do the same (shipping costs notwithstanding).

Do you get the feeling that GW see Australia and NZ as an ongoing experiment to see how far they can push their prices before demand starts to drop? I think they'd love it if the Brits, Europeans and North Americans paid southern hemisphere prices, but they're afraid to push it all at once. A 40%+ rise overnight would get people's attention, and even GW probably lacks the balls/stupidity for that move.

I stopped buying direct from GW some years ago, so I haven't been paying close attention. Did Australian/NZ prices go up last year in the annual price rise? If not, this could be an indicator that GW thinks these countries have reached maximum price, at least in the short term. That's pure speculation however, and if GW did raise its prices here, its also invalid. But like I said, I stopped paying attention to GW some time ago, so some information on this would be useful.

My next challenge will be building a Warriors of Chaos army without buying a single new model from GW; I'll need the grossly overpiced army book (NZ$98, or approx GBP52) but that's it. Avatars of War, Gamezone, Hell Dorado and second-hand look like the better options.

Flash Felix wrote:
Do you get the feeling that GW see Australia and NZ as an ongoing experiment to see how far they can push their prices before demand starts to drop?

Positively. The fact that we didn't get the full price hike last year pretty much proves it. It shows they've hit a ceiling that consumers won't pay above for some products already. The fact that other countries got the full hike means they might be trying to normalise them at our level. We'll see when this years hike comes in. If we get the full increase, the ceiling has been raised again by an influx of new customers. If we don't, but other countries do, we're the 'standard' they want prices at, and sales haven't increased enough to raise the ceiling.

AesSedai wrote:I feel I've got to make a point here. For those of you who think minimum wage is the root cause of pricing disparity, you really need to take off your blinders. Let's look at Japan--there is no more illustrative example in the world. In Japan, those who pay full GW retail pay more than anyone else. Guess what...minimum wage in Tokyo (highest m. wage in the country) is $8.37 USD. Minimum wage is a silly argument.

H.B.M.C. wrote:And Brazil, where a Tactical Squad is AUD$51 (to Oz’s AUD$60), their minimum wage is 1/4th that of the US. The US price for a Tac squad is AUD$35.

Minimum wage is not the contributing factor people make it out to be.

Even if minimum wage was a factor I really don't understand how that is our problem and not GWs.

If they want to sell something for $60 here and $35 in the US fine, but we are under no obligation to buy from here. If we can buy it cheaper elsewhere we will, that's capitalism. They have done nothing to foster any sort of customer loyalty so we have no incentive to pay more.
Them shutting down international sales is and as good as admitting they are intentionally trying to milk us for as much as they can.

Do you want to know the really galling part about the huge disparity?

When I ordered things from GW Japan, they shipped from the UK anyway! Ordering from GW Japan had me paying local shipping rates, but from GW UK would have me paying exorbitant fees even though they were both going to be sent from the same place.

Some reading on the subject:

http://www.choice.com.au/itpricing

http://www.ausgamers.com/features/read/3256952

 BolingbrokeIV wrote:
I know for a fact it was over double the uk minimum wage when the embargo was brought in because I remember having a similar conversation back then. Check the link I just gave you and find a historic conversion if you want.

Arguing that the minimum wage does or does not have an effect is fair enough but trying to say that the Australian minimum wage is not much higher than it is in the US and Uk and hasn't been throughout the time of this issue has existed is just plain false.

The US minimum wage is lower than the UK, though tell me why stuff costs more in the US than it does the UK?

Done a a comparison on both Warmachine and GW products, the US prices have been three pounds more expensive compared to the UK.

Sorry, but you're minimum wage argument isn't as strong as you like to think it is.

There is quite a bit of speculation in this thread that is pretty easily verified or debunked.

For instance, revenues in Australia over time are actually quite stable:
2009 - 9286 : 2010 - 10795 : 2011 - 10630 : 2012 - 11328 : 2013 (1/2 year) - 5597

And operating profits have reversed their slide:
2009 - 786: 2010 - 654 : 2011 - (406) : 2012 - (735) : 2013 (1/2 year) 342

It would seem via this cursory analysis that whatever they did is working, profits are up on stable revenues.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
I'm not even convinced closing GW stores in Oz is a good idea. At the height of GW popularity in Oz, the stores would have been a huge source of revenue because they were packed day after day and the counter was running almost constantly many nights of the week. Granted, it was a different time, but it's hard to say keeping stores open is the problem when I personally think they were previously making good money off stores.

Not as much as you'd think. Only one or two stores every really did well. The one that did the best is the one nearest to me that's still open, but is in the middle of fething nowhere compared to where it used to be and I can't imagine that it's abysmal new location is doing it any favours.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
I'm not even convinced closing GW stores in Oz is a good idea. At the height of GW popularity in Oz, the stores would have been a huge source of revenue because they were packed day after day and the counter was running almost constantly many nights of the week. Granted, it was a different time, but it's hard to say keeping stores open is the problem when I personally think they were previously making good money off stores.

Not as much as you'd think. Only one or two stores every really did well. The one that did the best is the one nearest to me that's still open, but is in the middle of fething nowhere compared to where it used to be and I can't imagine that it's abysmal new location is doing it any favours.

Jack_Death wrote:
There is quite a bit of speculation in this thread that is pretty easily verified or debunked.

For instance, revenues in Australia over time are actually quite stable:
2009 - 9286 : 2010 - 10795 : 2011 - 10630 : 2012 - 11328 : 2013 (1/2 year) - 5597

And operating profits have reversed their slide:
2009 - 786: 2010 - 654 : 2011 - (406) : 2012 - (735) : 2013 (1/2 year) 342

It would seem via this cursory analysis that whatever they did is working, profits are up on stable revenues.

I am not sure how posting a loss 2 years in a row would be considered stable revenues. The half year results are irrelevant as they will not reflect the EoY numbers in any significant way. Half year results for 2012 showed a loss of £277,000 and the EoY results managed to tack another £458,000 in losses onto that. If this year ends up doing the same, it would wipe out the half year gain and put it in the hole by a couple hundred thousand pounds - they might go up a touch too though...in either case, without knowing what happens in terms of sales and bills that come due (shipping contracts that are paid out at end of year for example) - you can not say that two years of losses are stable revenues or upward moving profits.

In regards to the op's question regarding why the Forge World postage is cheaper, that's an easy one it's because anyone in the uk who orders from them get's robbed blind and subsidises the worldwide shipping. Also you pay the VAT when you should not which also covers any remaining disparity.

Just checked the pricing between Aus and Can, SOME PRODUCTS have a more align pricing now. Assuming 1USD=1CAD=1AUS

Deathwing Terminators
70CAD/75AUS

Ravenwing Dark Talon (Flyer)
90CAD/81AUS

Land Speeder Vengence
80CAD/85AUS

Jack_Death wrote:
It would seem via this cursory analysis that whatever they did is working, profits are up on stable revenues.

Yes, they improved profits by moving out of high rent stores and laying off 3 quarters of their staff.

I am quite sure that posting a loss (lack of profit) has no direct bearing on whether top line sales are steady (similar revenues). They are quite distinct and separate numbers, and if you look a bit more carefully at my post (and/or do not completely misinterpret what you are reading) you'll see what I mean. As to the half-year numbers meaning nothing - what? They mean that the first half of the year this year has been better than the first half of the year last year. Full stop. This indicates that profits have reversed their multi-quarter slide. Full stop. You believe this is temporary - ok.

 Sean_OBrien wrote:

Jack_Death wrote:
There is quite a bit of speculation in this thread that is pretty easily verified or debunked.

For instance, revenues in Australia over time are actually quite stable:
2009 - 9286 : 2010 - 10795 : 2011 - 10630 : 2012 - 11328 : 2013 (1/2 year) - 5597

And operating profits have reversed their slide:
2009 - 786: 2010 - 654 : 2011 - (406) : 2012 - (735) : 2013 (1/2 year) 342

It would seem via this cursory analysis that whatever they did is working, profits are up on stable revenues.

I am not sure how posting a loss 2 years in a row would be considered stable revenues. The half year results are irrelevant as they will not reflect the EoY numbers in any significant way. Half year results for 2012 showed a loss of £277,000 and the EoY results managed to tack another £458,000 in losses onto that. If this year ends up doing the same, it would wipe out the half year gain and put it in the hole by a couple hundred thousand pounds - they might go up a touch too though...in either case, without knowing what happens in terms of sales and bills that come due (shipping contracts that are paid out at end of year for example) - you can not say that two years of losses are stable revenues or upward moving profits.

Jack_Death wrote:
As to the half-year numbers meaning nothing - what? They mean that the first half of the year this year has been better than the first half of the year last year. Full stop

Only if you actually compare them to the first half figures for last year. You've only shown previous full-year figures.

I did not paste the entire table. Here you go:

Current Period Year Ago Period Last Year
Region Revenue Operating Profit Operating Margin +/- Revenue Operating Profit Operating Margin Revenue Operating Profit Operating Margin
UK $15,613.00 $2,324.00 14.89% 3.97% $14,818.00 $1,618.00 10.92% $31,648.00 $4,835.00 15.28%
EUR $19,628.00 $2,638.00 13.44% 2.38% $20,382.00 $2,254.00 11.06% $40,757.00 $4,000.00 9.81%
NA $18,076.00 $1,547.00 8.56% -0.70% $15,419.00 $1,427.00 9.25% $33,621.00 $4,211.00 12.52%
Australia $5,597.00 $342.00 6.11% 11.21% $5,437.00 $(277.00) -5.09% $11,328.00 $(735.00) -6.49%
Export $810.00 $202.00 24.94% 12.70% $801.00 $98.00 12.23% $1,700.00 $89.00 5.24%
Asia $1,051.00 $32.00 3.04% 77.98% $818.00 $(613.00) -74.94% $1,737.00 $(624.00) -35.92%
All Other $6,682.00 $3,429.00 51.32% 4.35% $5,042.00 $2,368.00 46.97% $10,218.00 $4,732.00 46.31% Forge World, Black Library, etc.

 insaniak wrote:

Jack_Death wrote:
As to the half-year numbers meaning nothing - what? They mean that the first half of the year this year has been better than the first half of the year last year. Full stop

Only if you actually compare them to the first half figures for last year. You've only shown previous full-year figures.

It's easy to make multiple store closures and layoffs look like 'growth' when all you're looking at is a final figure.

QFT, I am not making any assertions to the contrary. Heck, I'm not making any assertions at all, I've simply pasted financial statement data.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
It's easy to make multiple store closures and layoffs look like 'growth' when all you're looking at is a final figure.

I'm not sure if this is on topic or not, but did anyone else notice its now a $60 dollar minimum to get free shipping here in Aus now if you buy directly from GW? I don't buy from them but I was checking out the site and that I thought was a curious little figure as I used to make small orders for paints and things totalling up to the before price of $30 to get the free shipping.

Also, as a young man who is trying to save up for a car and university, GW prices and the sheer price difference between EU, US and Aus has driven me of late to either not purchase any models at all, to buy one or two boxes every 6-8 months off an online distributor, or to turn to places like FW where I can get a decent price shockingly enough.

 Marine_With_Heart wrote:
I'm not sure if this is on topic or not, but did anyone else notice its now a $60 dollar minimum to get free shipping here in Aus now if you buy directly from GW? I don't buy from them but I was checking out the site and that I thought was a curious little figure as I used to make small orders for paints and things totalling up to the before price of $30 to get the free shipping.

Also, as a young man who is trying to save up for a car and university, GW prices and the sheer price difference between EU, US and Aus has driven me of late to either not purchase any models at all, to buy one or two boxes every 6-8 months off an online distributor, or to turn to places like FW where I can get a decent price shockingly enough.

Holy you're right!

 jonolikespie wrote:

 Marine_With_Heart wrote:
I'm not sure if this is on topic or not, but did anyone else notice its now a $60 dollar minimum to get free shipping here in Aus now if you buy directly from GW? I don't buy from them but I was checking out the site and that I thought was a curious little figure as I used to make small orders for paints and things totalling up to the before price of $30 to get the free shipping.

Also, as a young man who is trying to save up for a car and university, GW prices and the sheer price difference between EU, US and Aus has driven me of late to either not purchase any models at all, to buy one or two boxes every 6-8 months off an online distributor, or to turn to places like FW where I can get a decent price shockingly enough.

Holy you're right!

To be fair, this is basically 'buy something to get free shipping' anyway.

I know at least 6 months ago, possible almost up to a year ago, GW increased their "buy x amount to get free shipping" here in the states from 30 to 50. So it doesn't seem too far fetched that they would do the same to you guys.

 -Loki- wrote:

 jonolikespie wrote:

 Marine_With_Heart wrote:
I'm not sure if this is on topic or not, but did anyone else notice its now a $60 dollar minimum to get free shipping here in Aus now if you buy directly from GW? I don't buy from them but I was checking out the site and that I thought was a curious little figure as I used to make small orders for paints and things totalling up to the before price of $30 to get the free shipping.

Also, as a young man who is trying to save up for a car and university, GW prices and the sheer price difference between EU, US and Aus has driven me of late to either not purchase any models at all, to buy one or two boxes every 6-8 months off an online distributor, or to turn to places like FW where I can get a decent price shockingly enough.

Holy you're right!

To be fair, this is basically 'buy something to get free shipping' anyway.

True, the saddest part about this is it's still free shipping on a tac squad.
And if I am being honest this won't affect me in the slightest, but it still comes off as a jerk move on behalf of GW at best. At worst their AU sales have fallen so far that they are forced into this as part of their 'raise prices and lower costs to cover out asses' policy.