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Alright I will admit I'm wrong on Fateweaver, that was my bad for not reading it fully.

@Puscifer the one problem that I have with Skarbrand is that he's not overly tough and the best use of his abilities would be with Daemonettes who are not very tough, thus the use of HoT and HoS to give cover saves via divination and move through cover via Loci is going to be key. So yes it'd be preferred to start him on the board I still think DS-ing him in is the safest way. Although against GK I agree with you

Exergy wrote:

 mercer wrote:
Special characters have now been added. I will warn you, I am not a fan of special characters in general and my opinion maybe biased.

update the formating if you can
add some color to seperate sections

Will do.

Watchersinthedark wrote:Did I miss the part about the Heralds taking 4 models for 1 HQ slot? Don't think that got mentioned, which really kinda makes Heralds way more bad ass. Just being able to put a Herald in pretty much each unit you'd be taking is a massive benefit. Makes guys like Changeling way more comparable.

I thought it maybe common knowledge, but you make a good point - I'll add this.

Siphen wrote:Thanks for the in-depth summaries!

I'd still like to argue that Seekers deserve a much higher rating. Consider Screamers, which were rated 7/10 (accurate, imo).

Take a look at 6 Screamers vs 12 Seekers:

- The Seekers are slightly cheaper
- Both units have the same number of wounds with the same save (although the screamers can reroll 1's, that doesn't make a huge difference)

- Against MEQ, the Screamers will kill 3 on average. The Seekers will kill 8.
- Against TEQ, the Screamers will kill 2 on average. The Seekers will kill 5.
- Against GEQ, the Screamers will kill 10. The Seekers will kill 16.

So...slightly cheaper with roughly double the damage output. The Seekers also have Fleet, you can take larger squads, they're about as effective against most vehicles (AV 10). They're not quite as fast as the Screamers, but they're still fast enough to charge anything on turn 2 (move 12", run 10-12", move 12", assault 9"+).
They can strike before MEQ, so they'll take even less damage in combat.
They can easily bring down Toughness 8 and 9 MC's.

Glad you enjoyed the review.

Meh, maybe I don't like Seekers? I think it is that single wound a T3, who knows!



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Shoehorned in the heavy support as I totally forgot to add it, doh!

Added big colourful bold headers for the FoC break down - makes it easier to find.

Enjoy!

I think you are missing a few interesting points on the Khorne Skullcannon. I love Soul Grinders - but the comparison between them is a bit lopsided.

The cheapest Grinder with Phlegm comes in at 50+ more points. Also, the weapons are...

BS 3, S8 AP 3 vs BS 5, S8 AP 5 Ignores cover

Edit: I recognize the grinder gets 3 at S7 as well - looking only at the blasts for now...

They serve very different purposes. You want to clear out one of those ever present Aegis lines with 40 Guardsmen behind them? The Grinder is terrible for that. The Skull Cannon though will dig units out of cover - and it can probably get a 4+ from your own Aegis line that a Grinder cannot. On top of that, getting ride of that I1 modifier from terrain is a nice bonus so you can clear a combat zone and avoid return damage.

Against MEQ behind an Aegis - the Grinder is probably still a little better - but the differential between a 4+ and 3+ is 25% less wounds going through. That extra 2" of BS might just make up for that.

So for a nurgle themed CSM army would a few plague bearers + herald and maybe some Drones be a worthy investment? The jet infantry looks to be interesting and add some depth to an allied force.

 calypso2ts wrote:
I think you are missing a few interesting points on the Khorne Skullcannon. I love Soul Grinders - but the comparison between them is a bit lopsided.

The cheapest Grinder with Phlegm comes in at 50+ more points. Also, the weapons are...

BS 3, S8 AP 3 vs BS 5, S8 AP 5 Ignores cover

Edit: I recognize the grinder gets 3 at S7 as well - looking only at the blasts for now...

They serve very different purposes. You want to clear out one of those ever present Aegis lines with 40 Guardsmen behind them? The Grinder is terrible for that. The Skull Cannon though will dig units out of cover - and it can probably get a 4+ from your own Aegis line that a Grinder cannot. On top of that, getting ride of that I1 modifier from terrain is a nice bonus so you can clear a combat zone and avoid return damage.

Against MEQ behind an Aegis - the Grinder is probably still a little better - but the differential between a 4+ and 3+ is 25% less wounds going through. That extra 2" of BS might just make up for that.

Eh, I think it is possible to get a Grinder to receive the cover bonus. I just readjusted the legs of my Nurgle Grinder (perfectly legal to do, as they're movable and all the legs are in the correct holes-no conversions needed) and it stands an inch and a half SHORTER than my Slaanesh Grinder. How tall does the ADL stand? Because the lowest point of my NG's torso is half an inch above the table. If the AGL is ~2", I have half of mine able to be in cover from it. And, no, that is not an exaggeration. It CAN and DOES get that low, without any conversion needed. I expect to see lots of Nurgle Grinders having their legs readjusted. I also have to remove the sword from my NG...


Just measured, and my Nurgle Grinder stands just over 4" tall.

How is lowering the SG legs such that it can fit behind an Aegis (still do not think you can cover 25% of its front facing surface area) not modeling for advantage?

Either way, the cover save on the grinder is secondary to the discussion of the blasts.

Because the legs are on ball joints-who has the right to tell you what the correct positioning is? I could see making a Nurgle slug style torso as MFA, as you wouldn't need the legs, but this way uses all the correct parts in all the correct places. *shrug*


On topic, I like most of the review and appreciate it, but there have been a couple things I didn't agree on-personal taste and all.

NOt seeing how a model raised 1" above the table that is as tall as the grinder is getting cover off an aegis.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Eh, I think it is possible to get a Grinder to receive the cover bonus. I just readjusted the legs of my Nurgle Grinder (perfectly legal to do, as they're movable and all the legs are in the correct holes-no conversions needed) and it stands an inch and a half SHORTER than my Slaanesh Grinder. How tall does the ADL stand? Because the lowest point of my NG's torso is half an inch above the table. If the AGL is ~2", I have half of mine able to be in cover from it. And, no, that is not an exaggeration. It CAN and DOES get that low, without any conversion needed. I expect to see lots of Nurgle Grinders having their legs readjusted. I also have to remove the sword from my NG...

Just measured, and my Nurgle Grinder stands just over 4" tall.

I took a pic of my soulgrinder to see, and the only way I can see a soul grinder getting cover from an aegis is if it slipped and landed in its metal arse. As you can see in this pic, my soulgrinder is exactly 4" tall.

Maybe you can figure out a way to get the cover, but I am not sure its possible.

 calypso2ts wrote:
I think you are missing a few interesting points on the Khorne Skullcannon. I love Soul Grinders - but the comparison between them is a bit lopsided.

The cheapest Grinder with Phlegm comes in at 50+ more points. Also, the weapons are...

BS 3, S8 AP 3 vs BS 5, S8 AP 5 Ignores cover

Edit: I recognize the grinder gets 3 at S7 as well - looking only at the blasts for now...

They serve very different purposes. You want to clear out one of those ever present Aegis lines with 40 Guardsmen behind them? The Grinder is terrible for that. The Skull Cannon though will dig units out of cover - and it can probably get a 4+ from your own Aegis line that a Grinder cannot. On top of that, getting ride of that I1 modifier from terrain is a nice bonus so you can clear a combat zone and avoid return damage.

I never did a comparsion between them. I did mention about those things you said about the Skull Cannon.

Also a Soul Grinder won't get cover from behind an aegis. Tried it before and no way is that 25% and my Grinders are low, about an 1" off the deck.


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 timetowaste85 wrote:



On topic, I like most of the review and appreciate it, but there have been a couple things I didn't agree on-personal taste and all.

Glad to hear it and yes, as always things are someone's opinions and you may not agree with mine in this review, which is perfectly fine


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 labmouse42 wrote:
I took a pic of my soulgrinder to see, and the only way I can see a soul grinder getting cover from an aegis is if it slipped and landed in its metal arse. As you can see in this pic, my soulgrinder is exactly 4" tall.

Maybe you can figure out a way to get the cover, but I am not sure its possible.

Soul Grinder is way taller than 4". Remember you have the Grinder in the back ground and things further away are always smaller, like you finger can cover the tv screen at a distance. The Soul Grinder is more like 5" tall.

On the theme of Soulgrinder and cover, I assume it gets cover from the Plague Dones (big wings!)? And the drones in turn getting cover from any unit in front of it?

So you can have the SG at the back, a unit of Drones front and sides and a screening wall of PBs/ Beasts/ Nurglings whatever in front. It wouldn't move fast, but potentially a good way to escort a SG up the field with a 2+ save whilst it spits at people before laying in some serious CC with both it and the drones towards the end of the game?

I personally couldn't say as I haven't seen how big Plague Drones are. Comparing them to photos I would say yet, but I am not 100% sure.

I have played just one game with the new dex and i included both a nurgle Soul grinder with phlegm and a Skull cannon.

I played against a SW/IG army with a 40 man blobb.

The soulgrinder stood back hiding behind cover in my deployment zone and the skull cannon roamed around and shot at well everything.

My Skull cannon drove around shooting and assulting everything in site. Not sure how the assult thing works but thats for another thread to
discuss.
Love the manouvrebility of the machine.

The thing i notised was:

* The soulgrinder will get heavily pounded with enemy fire.. Thats a fact.. The model is to big to hide out of site.
High strenght big blast low ap is awesome but you get cover saves against it.
Skyfire shots feels like a bonus


* The Skull cannon is awesome!!! ok only armour 12,12,10 but still with the 5+ invo save and just 125 pts I love it.
Long range, big blast, high strenght and the most important thing NO COVER SAVE.
And when fielding a cc army the Skull Cannons is a must. Just so you can shoot at a unit in cover and every unit charging
that unit counts as having offensive grenades/frag grenades.

I will be running 2 cannons and 1 tzeentch Soulgrinder with pghlegm.
Why tzeentch? Because its the least expencive one and you get to reroll saves of 1 is why :p

thats my 5 cents

Wondering if anyone has done this. But concerning the Slaanesh chariot cavalcade, one could use the grimoire on them I believe, correct?

If so, then' you've given it a better longevity. Take one with a herald (psychics and rewards included) and then two other exalted chariots and you could have one heck of a nasty unit.

why stop at 3 take the full 13 if you so desire, add some hellflayers if needed and go to town

To compliment vehicle saturation of Soul Grinder whilst including some fast attack, a pair of seeker chariots seem quite potent for the cost. 2-4D6 str4 rending hits - pretty good?

Barrywise wrote:
why stop at 3 take the full 13 if you so desire, add some hellflayers if needed and go to town

No doubt, though I believe you can only grimoire one unit at a time.

ok true, also is it 1D6 extra hits for each hull point because i believe that the rules state something along the lines of chariots cause S4 d6 HoW attacks when charging and then they have the rule that causes S4 d6 (rending because it's daemon of slaneesh) for each hullpoint it has, so would it actually be 3d6 for seeker and 5d6 for exalted?

Barrywise wrote:
ok true, also is it 1D6 extra hits for each hull point because i believe that the rules state something along the lines of chariots cause S4 d6 HoW attacks when charging and then they have the rule that causes S4 d6 (rending because it's daemon of slaneesh) for each hullpoint it has, so would it actually be 3d6 for seeker and 5d6 for exalted?

It is HoW = hull points. HP X d6 Str4 attacks that automatically hit, as per the HoW rule. They also have rending.

Still, pretty baller. 57.5% of a cheap MoT Soul Grinder. Same hull points, AV11, Fast. Killy.