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Made in us
Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control





Denver

Just wanted to get some tactics on dealing with mass Necron flyers. I'm currently working on a 2500 point list which will be facing a Necron list with 7 or so Night Scythes/Doom Scythes.

How much and what kind of anti air should I be bringing?

How many Stormravens/Stormtalons should I be bringing? Should I bring the ADL with Telion and a unit of Scouts?

I mainly like to play close quarters since I use Vulkan/Drop Pods. Should I forgo the anti air and just bring some Landraiders? The scythe's don't look like they can do much to AV14.

Any help from someone who has dealt with this will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

::1750:: Deathwatch 
   
Made in us
Discriminating Deathmark Assassin






The night scythes or anything packing tesla can't hurt LRs but I usually load up my NS with a stormtek toting a haywire gun with a band of warriors for just such occasions. I would prefer to use them for objective holding but that's why I bring 5 or 6 NS - not to mention the 10 scarabs that will chew through anything.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/03/07 14:45:45


 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block





Do not bring vehicles. Warriors still glance on a 6. You'll lose vehicles like left socks in the laundry. Play conservative & let as much of your opponents army sit in his deployment zone as possible, don't go toward the Crons. Just use a sternpod sqd to get a barge or 2 & create some disruption. Then wait & deal with his airforce when it shows up with your own air. Or the reverse. Go pod crazy turn one & try to take out anything that gives him a reserves bonus like comms or a warlord. Then make lemonade when his air arrives & hold the objectives till end game.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





Cron air is less of a problem now adays than hellturkeys, they are a lot scarier for us.

Non FW:
Storm talons and storm ravens are going to be your best bet here. Good vs all targets but especially vs flyers. Especially now that the talon is 20-30 points cheaper for the skyhammer missile variety (the one you will most likely want).

Suggesting: 2 talons or 1 talon and 1 raven

Is an adl necessary with that? it helps, but not if you need points. Always go with the quad gun variety, dont get telion. Telion + scouts are too expensive for what they bring, especially since they just die to the hellturkey. When they eventually go down in price to match the DA codex that's another thing, but for now they are overcosted.

FW:
Lots of hyperios, a contemptor dread are pretty good. I run right now an icarus, mortis (manning the icarus) and 3 hyperios. Is it enough? maybe, hopefully, but we'll see. Talons are still good here though 3 hyperios is cheaper and more durable (though less agile), so it's hard to top.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut



Beaver Dam, WI

ADL + Quad + ML Devs...

If you are assured anti-air will be needed, that is BS 5 shots with the ADL, 4 x BS 1 shots with Krak missiles. That should just about drop a flyer every turn.

As an alternative, devastators with Heavy Bolters... Sure it is only S5 but 36" range and 16 S5 shots should mean 2 to 3 hits and that should be a dead or dinged flyer every turn.

If you are not worried about gauss, the contempter dread, hyperios. All these are probably better than talons unless you want to field flyers.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Actually you could add a Dark Angel ally

1st Level Librarian 65
10 man Tactical w Flakk Missile 165
Nephilim 180

The librarian gets Divination and pops reroll to hits on a unit.
The nephilim is actually scary for necron flyers 5 S6 shots, 3 TL S5 Shots plus a bunch of S6 missiles.. The ability to change any weapon destroyed to immobilize should flame alot of AV10 or even AV11 flyers. Have the tacitcal man the ADL with the divinatation rerolls, it should do awesome.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/07 19:51:55


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Made in us
Fireknife Shas'el





United States

 NickTheButcher wrote:
Just wanted to get some tactics on dealing with mass Necron flyers. I'm currently working on a 2500 point list which will be facing a Necron list with 7 or so Night Scythes/Doom Scythes.

How much and what kind of anti air should I be bringing?

How many Stormravens/Stormtalons should I be bringing? Should I bring the ADL with Telion and a unit of Scouts?

I mainly like to play close quarters since I use Vulkan/Drop Pods. Should I forgo the anti air and just bring some Landraiders? The scythe's don't look like they can do much to AV14.

Any help from someone who has dealt with this will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!
The Doom Scythes and Gauss will eat your vehicles for breakfast, lunch, and dinner, then the Doom Scythes will have your Terminators for dessert.

Quad-gun, Stormtalons, and Stormravens are the way to go. I would definitely take a Quad-gun as it can be a fantastic way to get those fliers out of the sky right when they come in. The Storm-things are still very vulnerable to the Tesla Cannons - 4 S7 shots at BS4 are deadly to both SM fliers. The Stormraven should have either a TL MM or TL LC, or both if it can (I don't remember if it can, I think it can). on the Storm Talons, I would definitely take Typhoon MLs. On the whole, I think STs are your best bet mainly because of the Typhoons and the twin-linked ACs.

EDIT: Just remembered Necron Fliers are AV11. So you'll have a chance to pen without Rending with those ACs and even the standard Stormtalon Heavy Bolters can glance. Go for cheap so you can handle all of those Necron Fliers.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/07 21:24:16


 
   
Made in us
Irked Necron Immortal







Aim your Aegis at the Doom Scythes, and keep your army clumped near anything that will deny him/her LoS. Rule of thumb here is keep -EVERYTHING- more than six inches apart from each other. This will deny the Destructors Special Rule Arc, which is the real kicker and will take the bite out of the fliers. Play the objectives with the six inch gap and you should be fine. :3

 
   
Made in fi
Dakka Veteran




DAaddict wrote:
ADL + Quad + ML Devs...
If you are assured anti-air will be needed, that is BS 5 shots with the ADL, 4 x BS 1 shots with Krak missiles. That should just about drop a flyer every turn.
This will work for one turn, assuming opponent doesn't evade. Of course, that BS5 quad gun is about 4x as effective as the 4x Krak missiles are, so you can count on Necron player just firing 2-3 Nigth Scythes and removing it from table as soon as he can.

DAaddict wrote:
As an alternative, devastators with Heavy Bolters... Sure it is only S5 but 36" range and 16 S5 shots should mean 2 to 3 hits and that should be a dead or dinged flyer every turn.
Nope. On average, that is barely enough to get either one glancing or penetrating hit.

DAaddict wrote:
The nephilim is actually scary for necron flyers 5 S6 shots, 3 TL S5 Shots plus a bunch of S6 missiles.
Well, not that scary. S5 can only glance and S6 requires 6 to pen. Remember that the NS basically has 6 TL S7 shots (Tesla rule with BS4 is mathematically same as + 50% shots) and costs is almost half of what Nephilim does.

DAaddict wrote:
The ability to change any weapon destroyed to immobilize should flame alot of AV10 or even AV11 flyers.
Immobilized isn't actually that bad on flyers. Sure, you have to move (most likely) 36" per turn, but losing the only weapon would hurt NS lot more.

DAaddict wrote:
Have the tacitcal man the ADL with the divinatation rerolls, it should do awesome.
Quad gun is already twin-linked, and even TL'd, Icarus lascannon is not as good against Scythes as Quad Gun is. So that tactical squad + librarian gives you around 25% firepower increase for the quad gun, for the small price of few hundred points.
No, if you want to counter Cron Air with allies, IG + Vendettas is the way to go.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut



Beaver Dam, WI

I am rather disgusted with the current state of 40K and the Vendetta seems to be at the core of it all.

I acknowledge that the vendetta is superior due to the fact it has an archaic cost and AV from the cro-magnon days of there being no flyers.

Sadly, while GW has accelerated its schedule for addressing the 6th edition rules changes, there seems to be no thought to address the costs of valkrie/vendetta.

Here is to hoping that GW leaves it as is and true-costs it to about a 250 point flyer or reduces its armor to a non-dedicated heavy flyer level with appropriate costs.

It is really a sad state of affairs when the answer to everything is "hmmm, I think you should ally guardsmen and add a vendetta or three to your army." To all the people who abhor mixing armies and would like to deal with things within their codex, sorry we are stuck with the rulers of the air - a guardsmen upgunned transport - as the answer to all your problems.

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Made in us
Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control





Denver

DAaddict wrote:

Here is to hoping that GW leaves it as is and true-costs it to about a 250 point flyer or reduces its armor to a non-dedicated heavy flyer level with appropriate costs.
.


I don't think they will. Considering DFTS Compendium just came out and Vendetta's are still only 130 pts.

So, If I were to go the route of Vendettas by taking an allied detachment, what's the cheapest Troop/HQ (that won't be a waste of points) to get to them?

After totaling those costs (Troop/HQ/Vendettas), would it be better to stick with some Stormravens?

For 390 points I can get 3 Vendettas (then factoring in the cost of the rest of the allied detachment) -- is it still better to take the allied detachment?

::1750:: Deathwatch 
   
Made in jp
Proud Triarch Praetorian





DAaddict wrote:
I am rather disgusted with the current state of 40K and the Vendetta seems to be at the core of it all.

I acknowledge that the vendetta is superior due to the fact it has an archaic cost and AV from the cro-magnon days of there being no flyers.

Sadly, while GW has accelerated its schedule for addressing the 6th edition rules changes, there seems to be no thought to address the costs of valkrie/vendetta.

Here is to hoping that GW leaves it as is and true-costs it to about a 250 point flyer or reduces its armor to a non-dedicated heavy flyer level with appropriate costs.

It is really a sad state of affairs when the answer to everything is "hmmm, I think you should ally guardsmen and add a vendetta or three to your army." To all the people who abhor mixing armies and would like to deal with things within their codex, sorry we are stuck with the rulers of the air - a guardsmen upgunned transport - as the answer to all your problems.

Agree completely with the above.
Personally, as a Necron player myself, I'm disgusted every time I see someone suggest "lol, you should just take a million scythes, they're so OP, trollololol" to new kids starting out.

But, thanks to GW's legendary lack of foresight, things like this (OP-unit-spam/abuse) are going to be around as long as their ineptitude continues... so, forever.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/09 14:05:53


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut



Beaver Dam, WI

 NickTheButcher wrote:
DAaddict wrote:

Here is to hoping that GW leaves it as is and true-costs it to about a 250 point flyer or reduces its armor to a non-dedicated heavy flyer level with appropriate costs.
.


I don't think they will. Considering DFTS Compendium just came out and Vendetta's are still only 130 pts.

So, If I were to go the route of Vendettas by taking an allied detachment, what's the cheapest Troop/HQ (that won't be a waste of points) to get to them?

After totaling those costs (Troop/HQ/Vendettas), would it be better to stick with some Stormravens?

For 390 points I can get 3 Vendettas (then factoring in the cost of the rest of the allied detachment) -- is it still better to take the allied detachment?



<sigh> 3 Vendettas and 1 HQ plus 2 vet squads would be might thoughts. Then it is a matter of choice/points cost and you either arm them up with Melta if you worry about tanks or plasma if you want to kill MEQ/TEQ.

While we are at it, you might as well add a Manticore... After all, it is the best artillery in the game.

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Made in us
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets






Connecticut

What's your $$$ budget? I don't want to suggest something and have you look at 600 bucks worth of models.

That being said, 3 storm ravens and 3 storm talons are a painful counter to 'cron air. STR 7 has a hard time killing AV 12. You can expect to be killing 3 of his birds a turn. Don't get me wrong, it will be brutal, but that is a good counter.
   
 
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