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 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Well, Who says what the feminist movement is? the minority or the majority? Because much of the majority are men hating cynical women.

Is there any truth to this or this mostly just anecdotal evidence?

 Cheesecat wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Well, Who says what the feminist movement is? the minority or the majority? Because much of the majority are men hating cynical women.

Is there any truth to this or this mostly just anecdotal evidence?

Mostly Anecdotal, but you see my point, It seems feminism needs to do some cleaning in their ranks if they want something done.

 Melissia wrote:

 Slarg232 wrote:
So tell me how you are going to get ANYTHING done if your so divided?

We HAVE gotten things done. Or perhaps you don't know the history of the womens' rights movement?

And do you know how much more you could get done if you actually got together and figured things out amongst yourselves? It's taken, what, 50 years for the first female vice president? Coulda done that alot sooner if there weren't so many feminazis...

Mind you, that might be near impossible with how indesicive most women are....

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Mostly Anecdotal, but you see my point

Maybe if you had one I might. As it is, you don't. You have almost no experience with the feminist movement, cite no actual evidence, and have no real proof of your claims, and yet you would go and declare us all to be "feminazis" and "man-haters".

There's nothing to be butt hurt about in this video, at all. She says that negative messages in popular culture, repeated over and over can have an influencing effect. That's true. She does not say men are stupid or hateful. She even says the games are fun. most of us can separate fantasy from reality, but it's pretty obvious to many people that nerd culture needs to play more nicely with the ladies.

Im not declaring all to be Man-haters. Im saying the most vocal are, so that is who is seen. If more women like you spoke out, it would maybe people would respect feminist's more often. But no, it is the feminazis that speak out so there for they are the face of the movement.
I do have a point, but you dont see it. And how am i supposed to give you evidence from lectures i had 2-3 years ago?

 Melissia wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Mostly Anecdotal, but you see my point

Maybe if you had one I might. As it is, you don't. You have almost no experience with the feminist movement, cite no actual evidence, and have no real proof of your claims, and yet you would go and declare us all to be "feminazis" and "man-haters".

I actually dated a feminist for a while. I agreed with almost everything she said; women deserve to be in the army, women deserve to be payed the same, men deserve patriachy leave or whatever the hell it's called.

The Feminist Movement is actually a great thing. Women deserve to be treated as equals. But here is why alot of men hate the movement:



Not necessarily those exact things, but that mindset.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
And how am i supposed to give you evidence from lectures i had 2-3 years ago?

Thank you for proving my point.

I guess im just confused about how im supposed to cite personal experiances.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I guess im just confused about how im supposed to cite personal experiances.

Exactly. All you have is anecdotal evidence, nothing more. And the anecdotal evidence you DO have is outdated and suffers from confirmation bias.

@slarg: Disagree largely with that pic. I'll give you the bathroom thing and the hitting thing, but otherwise those rules are form the 1920s or so. It's not uncommon to see women paying for dates now, and a guy is NOT considered perverted for kissing a woman or touching her naughty bits if the timing is right (and if you have even basic social know-how, this should be fairly obvious); women actually WANT a guy to kiss them suddenly when it's appropriate. I hear lots of complaints about this sort of thing but rarely see it play out.

 Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:
@slarg: Disagree largely with that pic. I'll give you the bathroom thing and the hitting thing, but otherwise those rules are form the 1920s or so. It's not uncommon to see women paying for dates now, and a guy is NOT considered perverted for kissing a woman or touching her naughty bits if the timing is right (and if you have even basic social know-how, this should be fairly obvious); women actually WANT a guy to kiss them suddenly when it's appropriate. I hear lots of complaints about this sort of thing but rarely see it play out.

Maybe it is for you Can, but in my experiance those still hold true. Women don't seem to want to be equals, they seem to just want to have all the benefits without the drawbacks. Notice the bold/underlined word. Appearences are almost if not more important than what you actually want, and even knowing waht my girlfriend wanted in this area, she still hardly ever brought up some of the more negative aspects of being male/"dominant". For all her talk of equality, it was still me who had to pay, still me who had to go check out "the scary things in the night", and all that gak.

 Melissia wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I guess im just confused about how im supposed to cite personal experiances.

Exactly. All you have is anecdotal evidence, nothing more. And the anecdotal evidence you DO have is outdated and suffers from confirmation bias.

Ok, prove to me that the movement isnt that, Prove that it doesnt have men hating feminazis. I know it isnt full of them, but they damn exist. I have had multiple proffessors that are Men-hating feminists all across my college tenure. They say one thing then the opposite, they say women should get payed as much as men, but they also deserve to have more payed time off for "Personal Reasons." Much of my experiance has been bad. And i know it isnt. I have met many women and read many amazing articles about women and the feminist movement that i fell in love with. But i had to look for those, I didnt have to look for the Feminazi's

 Slarg232 wrote:

Maybe it is for you Can, but in my experiance those still hold true. Women don't seem to want to be equals, they seem to just want to have all the benefits without the drawbacks. Notice the bold/underlined word. Appearences are almost if not more important than what you actually want, and even knowing waht my girlfriend wanted in this area, she still hardly ever brought up some of the more negative aspects of being male/"dominant". For all her talk of equality, it was still me who had to pay, still me who had to go check out "the scary things in the night", and all that gak.

Then get a better girlfriend? They're out there. That's like saying because one dude beat a chick that men seem to want to beat women. There's dramatic people in all genders/sexes/races/whatever, and there's chill people. Go for the chill peeps, and ignore what "society" says as there is no single person alive who 100% agrees with any standard or any other person.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 Melissia wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I guess im just confused about how im supposed to cite personal experiances.

Exactly. All you have is anecdotal evidence, nothing more. And the anecdotal evidence you DO have is outdated and suffers from confirmation bias.

Ok, prove to me that the movement isnt that, Prove that it doesnt have men hating feminazis. I know it isnt full of them, but they damn exist. I have had multiple proffessors that are Men-hating feminists all across my college tenure. They say one thing then the opposite, they say women should get payed as much as men, but they also deserve to have more payed time off for "Personal Reasons." Much of my experiance has been bad. And i know it isnt. I have met many women and read many amazing articles about women and the feminist movement that i fell in love with. But i had to look for those, I didnt have to look for the Feminazi's

Mel doesn't answer things that she doesn't want to. Never has.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 Melissia wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I guess im just confused about how im supposed to cite personal experiances.

Exactly. All you have is anecdotal evidence, nothing more. And the anecdotal evidence you DO have is outdated and suffers from confirmation bias.

Ok, prove to me that the movement isnt that, Prove that it doesnt have men hating feminazis. I know it isnt full of them, but they damn exist. I have had multiple proffessors that are Men-hating feminists all across my college tenure. They say one thing then the opposite, they say women should get payed as much as men, but they also deserve to have more payed time off for "Personal Reasons." Much of my experiance has been bad. And i know it isnt. I have met many women and read many amazing articles about women and the feminist movement that i fell in love with. But i had to look for those, I didnt have to look for the Feminazi's

So the majority of tabletop gamers are smelly, disgusting people and should be treated as such before being given a chance?

 Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:

 Slarg232 wrote:

Maybe it is for you Can, but in my experiance those still hold true. Women don't seem to want to be equals, they seem to just want to have all the benefits without the drawbacks. Notice the bold/underlined word. Appearences are almost if not more important than what you actually want, and even knowing waht my girlfriend wanted in this area, she still hardly ever brought up some of the more negative aspects of being male/"dominant". For all her talk of equality, it was still me who had to pay, still me who had to go check out "the scary things in the night", and all that gak.

Then get a better girlfriend? They're out there. That's like saying because one dude beat a chick that men seem to want to beat women. There's dramatic people in all genders/sexes/races/whatever, and there's chill people. Go for the chill peeps, and ignore what "society" says as there is no single person alive who 100% agrees with any standard or any other person.

Key words was "used to date" dude

I could handle the her bisexuality, I could handle her feminist ways.

But I'll be damned if I'm going to handle being called a baby when the first time we have a fight she storms into my dorm room and takes "my toys back and delete my number off of your cell" while stomping as loud as she can.

Water under the bridge or where you want ot put it

No, you don't get to shift the burden of proof like that. Aside from the fact that proving a negative is nigh-impossible, I did not make the initial claim here-- you did.

YOU made the assertion of "the majority [of feminists] are men hating cynical women.", now YOU have to either prove your assertion or retract it. I merely deny that your assertion is true. It is your duty, as the one making your argument, to actually MAKE YOUR GODDAMNED ARGUMENT.

So, either back up your statements, or take them back and apologize.

 Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 Melissia wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I guess im just confused about how im supposed to cite personal experiances.

Exactly. All you have is anecdotal evidence, nothing more. And the anecdotal evidence you DO have is outdated and suffers from confirmation bias.

Ok, prove to me that the movement isnt that, Prove that it doesnt have men hating feminazis. I know it isnt full of them, but they damn exist. I have had multiple proffessors that are Men-hating feminists all across my college tenure. They say one thing then the opposite, they say women should get payed as much as men, but they also deserve to have more payed time off for "Personal Reasons." Much of my experiance has been bad. And i know it isnt. I have met many women and read many amazing articles about women and the feminist movement that i fell in love with. But i had to look for those, I didnt have to look for the Feminazi's

So the majority of tabletop gamers are smelly, disgusting people and should be treated as such before being given a chance?

While not all TT gamers are smelly and disgusting, at least one per FLGS is.

Just like not all Feminists are Feminazis, but at least one out of every rally is. Depending on the size of the rally, a whole lot more than that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Melissia wrote:
No, you don't get to shift the burden of proof like that. Aside from the fact that proving a negative is nigh-impossible, I did not make the initial claim here-- you did.

YOU made the assertion of "the majority [of feminists] are men hating cynical women.", now YOU have to either prove your assertion or retract it. I merely deny that your assertion is true. It is your duty, as the one making your argument, to actually MAKE YOUR GODDAMNED ARGUMENT.

So, either back up your statements, or take them back and apologize.

Prove that they aren't.

You are making the argument that "the majority of Feminists are NOT men hating cynical women", so you back up YOUR argument.

Feminism is based upon the Conflict Theory. Men have power, women want the same amount of power. The very basis of the Conflict Social Theory is CYNISISM.

That doesn't prove anything at all. At least one of X is whatever the really bad extreme of X is. That doesn't really define or clarify anything.

 Melissia wrote:
No, you don't get to shift the burden of proof like that. Aside from the fact that proving a negative is nigh-impossible, I did not make the initial claim here-- you did.

YOU made the assertion of "the majority [of feminists] are men hating cynical women.", now YOU have to either prove your assertion or retract it. I merely deny that your assertion is true. It is your duty, as the one making your argument, to actually MAKE YOUR GODDAMNED ARGUMENT.

So, either back up your statements, or take them back and apologize.

I dont have to apologize. I didint insult anyone. I just pointed out my opinion. And if you want it, just check ut Anita's "Feminist Frequency" channel on youtube. one of the most popular feminists is also a Man-Hater.

 Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:
That doesn't prove anything at all. At least one of X is whatever the really bad extreme of X is. That doesn't really define or clarify anything.

Correct.

Just like there's always one conservative that is a screaming religious nutjob. There's always one liberal that's a nearly violent member of PETA. There's always one man that says "women should get back in the kitchen". And so on and so forth. We are a democracy, variation is not only acceptable it's even cherished. The extremist portions of the group should never come to define the group in question.

 Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:
That doesn't prove anything at all. At least one of X is whatever the really bad extreme of X is. That doesn't really define or clarify anything.

No, it doesn't.

What it does do, however, is allow us to say that they ARE there, and they might not be the one who is the most vocal, but they are the loudest.

Be honest, if you walk into a FLGS, are you going to be able to enjoy yourself as much due to the fact that the one guy hasn't showered in months? Of course not; it's a small building (All of mine are, anyway) and he damn well stinks bad. Doesn't matter how good of an experiance you have with the rest of the group, that blighter smells, and you don't want to go to that FLGS again if that guys a regular.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I didint insult anyone.

You insulted a large number of people, myself included, through spreading lies about the feminist movement.

 Melissia wrote:

 Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:
That doesn't prove anything at all. At least one of X is whatever the really bad extreme of X is. That doesn't really define or clarify anything.

Correct.

Just like there's always one conservative that is a screaming religious nutjob. There's always one liberal that's a nearly violent member of PETA. There's always one man that says "women should get back in the kitchen". And so on and so forth. We are a democracy, variation is not only acceptable it's even cherished. The extremist portions of the group should never come to define the group in question.

Is that why Republicans are seen as incredibly pants on head stupid, due to Bush and Fox News, while Democrats are seen as evil money win at all cost politians due to Obama and his Health Care/Tax increases/and Colorado allowing Illegals to have finacial add while soldiers who defend this country can't even have tuition help anymore?

When I managed a comic shop, and at any of the shops I regularly gamed at, we kicked the dude out. That guy wasn't there. Ugly people were, but that's a different tale Even then, I would and I would just avoid that guy.

"One woman was a bitch? who needs any of 'em!" seems like a pretty terrible philosophy.

Edit: And the repub/dem thing is a bit of a separate topic as much of the propaganda is fueled purely with the intent to keep the general populace off-balance, whereas feminism vs. whatever-the-official-name-for-it's-enemy-is is a social struggle.

 Melissia wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I didint insult anyone.

You insulted a large number of people, myself included, through spreading lies about the feminist movement.

He didn't spread lies; he said "in my experiance". That's not lying.

 Melissia wrote:

 Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:
That doesn't prove anything at all. At least one of X is whatever the really bad extreme of X is. That doesn't really define or clarify anything.

Correct.

Just like there's always one conservative that is a screaming religious nutjob. There's always one liberal that's a nearly violent member of PETA. There's always one man that says "women should get back in the kitchen". And so on and so forth. We are a democracy, variation is not only acceptable it's even cherished. The extremist portions of the group should never come to define the group in question.

And they all ruin it for the others. The Nutjob makes all chriistian seem like Nutjobs, PETA makes all ARA look crazy and that "Women in the kitchen" man makes all men look like jerks. IT may not define it, but it sure as hell is the face of many of them.

Except it isn't the face of many. It's just a vocal minority. Intelligent, rational people should be able to see beyond the apparent facade to find the truth of the matter, not merely making snap judgements and sticking to them regardless of what else comes up.

Whether or not the average human being is intelligent and rational is up for debate, but I expect the average Dakkanaut to be such.

 Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:
When I managed a comic shop, and at any of the shops I regularly gamed at, we kicked the dude out. That guy wasn't there. Ugly people were, but that's a different tale Even then, I would and I would just avoid that guy.

"One woman was a bitch? who needs any of 'em!" seems like a pretty terrible philosophy.

Unfortunately, it was the manager's brother :(

And no one is saying that, Can. It's just that, as a whole, I, and many people I hang out with, beleive women should be treated as equal in ALL things. However, due to how the feminist movement conducts itself, we can't take it seriously. None of us can.