Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Unless something happens i'll be participating in my first tourny in about 2 weeks (its just like ~10 people using a tourny as an excuse to get everyone together at once)

I have always been bad at making lists because i am rather inexperienced with my orks, basically been doing trial and error with random lists. Been getting better, but i still lose majority of the time (but im not getting plastered anymore thats what counts)

Heres my list:

HQ: KFF Mek w/ PKlaw/CB 120
HQ: Meganob Boss w/ CB/BP 115
Elites: 10x Kommandos w/ 3 Burnas and Snikrot - 230
Elites: 2x 7 Lootas 105(210)
Troops: 3x 30 Shoota Boyz w/ Nob PK/BP and 3 BS 235(705)
Troops: 1x 30 Slugga Boyz w/ Nob PK/BP 220
Heavy: 2x 3Kannon Batteries w/ 3 Ammorunts and +2 Crew 75(150)
Total: 1750

It will be a tight fit or have a group of boyz uncovered, but i decided to sac a KFF for my footslogging army to do the Meganob Boss Surprise tactic i pulled on a necron player (he was not happy to say the least). Basically its put him in front of the Kommandos and use that 2+ as your cover save, and LOS any AP2 attacks. Burnas are there for 3 powerweapons to deal with MEQs since im bound to only have ~7-8 kommandos left including snikrot, not much of a threat w/o the burnas.
If i end up facing an opponent lacking piplates i can easily keep my army under cover (since spacing wont be an issue), otherwise probably 1 unit will remain uncovered, and focused first obviously.

Initially i wanted Boomgun Wagons because ive been trying to make a list involving them for some time, but i always see major flaws when i put them in. This list's flaw was i either fielded a single low AV'd vehicle (bad idea) or had next to no lootas (worse idea). So i settled for Kannons, move them up on turn 1 and just camp out the rest of the game enjoying 6 S8 AP3 shots at Bs3 with ammo runts if i need it. Considerably harder to take out than an AV11 vehicle too.

Anyone see a major flaw in my army i need to rethink, or am i good to go? None of us are die-hard gamers, but some are pretty good regardless.

EDIT: Oh, the random slugga group is because i dont have 120 Shoota Boyz and we'd rather not proxy for this "tourny" and i assume by the time my 4th group is needed anyway im in charging range so i want the extra attack.

Very interesting..
I like this list .. Lead out with the shoota boyz and keep them covered and you will have meatshiled cover for the slugga boys trailing behind ...no no major holes in this army ..Kommandoes are usefull still just no longer OPed..

Only thing I see is the PK's may or may not get to play ..(as costly as they are I am using them less and less these days)

Let us know how it goes ..I would say it will do well against all but AV-14 or very flyer heavy armies


Automatically Appended Next Post:
But thats the same for all ork armies ..

Not worried about flier spam because everyone never brings more than 2, and most only bring 1. im actually the most likely to bring a full roster of planes since Dakkajets suck balls without 2-3 of them, even then i kinda dont like their performance vs lootas.

I pay for Pklaws in every group because especially in 30man groups the nob usually gets to the other side of the table fine, and multiple pklaws = 1 will not get challenged out. If i have 1-2 of the groups with a bigchoppa or nobless, they'll just ignore those groups till the end and they wont pose as much of a threat.

The local necron player always jokes hes going to bring a necron airforce but 1) he doesnt have the models and 2) he never brings what he claims because every time he claims something its to counter a theorycraft of someone else's army and never brings it cuz he doesnt think were doing said theorycraft.

Thanks for the approval, i'll letcha know whats up when it happens (back to scratchbuilding Kannons lol)

EDIT: Unrelated but am i the only one that feels the Dakkajet should be a vehicle group? Formation fliers FTW! (maybe cut off the extra supa shoota to compensate for more models)

Yes Dakkajets should be a squadron of 1-3 like most of the other flyers out there ..
only flyers I am concerned with in my neck of the woods is a squadron Valks backed up by a squadron of Vend's..they chew my armies up...

Your Kommandos can't have 3 burnas. They can only have 2 special weapons. I personally think they are not worth it as you can't assault the turn you come in from reserves. Now if you plan on infiltrating them they will die before they do anything IMHO.

I really don't understand why you have a boss in Mega armor. He will not be able to waagh with the army as they can't run due to S&P. Not to mention you didn't take advantage of his Nobs as troops rule.

I personally think you have to many boys. In a tourney scene you are going to be so slow moving eveything.

I don't like 7 man squads of Lootas either. I would try to make them 10 man squads at least.

Lootas should be able to deal with any flyers you may have to deal with. I don't see a need for the Dakkajet.

Anyways good luck.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Unless something happens i'll be participating in my first tourny in about 2 weeks (its just like ~10 people using a tourny as an excuse to get everyone together at once)

I have always been bad at making lists because i am rather inexperienced with my orks, basically been doing trial and error with random lists. Been getting better, but i still lose majority of the time (but im not getting plastered anymore thats what counts)

Heres my list:

HQ: KFF Mek w/ PKlaw/CB 120
HQ: Meganob Boss w/ CB/BP 115
Elites: 10x Kommandos w/ 3 Burnas and Snikrot - 230
Elites: 2x 7 Lootas 105(210)
Troops: 3x 30 Shoota Boyz w/ Nob PK/BP and 3 BS 235(705)
Troops: 1x 30 Slugga Boyz w/ Nob PK/BP 220
Heavy: 2x 3Kannon Batteries w/ 3 Ammorunts and +2 Crew 75(150)
Total: 1750

It will be a tight fit or have a group of boyz uncovered, but i decided to sac a KFF for my footslogging army to do the Meganob Boss Surprise tactic i pulled on a necron player (he was not happy to say the least). Basically its put him in front of the Kommandos and use that 2+ as your cover save, and LOS any AP2 attacks. Burnas are there for 3 powerweapons to deal with MEQs since im bound to only have ~7-8 kommandos left including snikrot, not much of a threat w/o the burnas.
If i end up facing an opponent lacking piplates i can easily keep my army under cover (since spacing wont be an issue), otherwise probably 1 unit will remain uncovered, and focused first obviously.

Initially i wanted Boomgun Wagons because ive been trying to make a list involving them for some time, but i always see major flaws when i put them in. This list's flaw was i either fielded a single low AV'd vehicle (bad idea) or had next to no lootas (worse idea). So i settled for Kannons, move them up on turn 1 and just camp out the rest of the game enjoying 6 S8 AP3 shots at Bs3 with ammo runts if i need it. Considerably harder to take out than an AV11 vehicle too.

Anyone see a major flaw in my army i need to rethink, or am i good to go? None of us are die-hard gamers, but some are pretty good regardless.

EDIT: Oh, the random slugga group is because i dont have 120 Shoota Boyz and we'd rather not proxy for this "tourny" and i assume by the time my 4th group is needed anyway im in charging range so i want the extra attack.

very clever tactic with the megaboss attached to snikrots kommandos. that tactic works great for linebreaker, however, i have a hard time seeing a necron list having trouble with a megaboss outflank due to mindshackle (a cheap peice of wargear that screws over any challange when it goes off) and sheer amount of guass/tesla fire. overall though that unit is a point sink and a bullet magnet with only 15 wounds total. they dont have much of a threat value as they cant assualt off of reserve and theyre footslogging. theyre main advantage would be in theyre counter strike to a charge with their 2D3s worth of wounds from theyre burnas and all the dice they drop in CC. also, the kommandos can only have 2 burnas. check p99 of the codex.
the saving grace of the list is that at 1750 the other player will have to play smart and focus fire on one unit at a time with as many bodies that are on the table at one time, however it can be thined out with a BA drop pod assualt or multiple templates, but wont be as brutal as they could be at 1750pt as at 2000pt.

if anything,
drop the megaboss
drop the kommandos
drop the slugga boyz
drop the PK on the big mek

add a warboss biker with BP, PK, CB, Attack Squig
add 6 nob bikers with 2 PKs, CBs, and a Pain Boy upgrade

the warboss biker deathstar is a very mobile, multi shot, heavy hitting unit that take hits and dish em out. its one of the best units in the enitre codex, especially when fully maxed out. the unit is has 4+ auto cover(exhaust clouds), 4+ armor, 5+ invul. ,5+ FnP saves. just the warboss biker alone is a beat stick who cant cant be insta-killed due to the bike adding +1T making him T6 with 12" movement, 12" turboboost, 4+ auto cover/armor save, 3 TL shots at S5, and with a PK/AS 6 S10 AP2 attacks on the charge hitting on 3+ majority of the time. that HQ alone is arguably one of the best in the game. however due to the age of the codex the army is mid teir at best.

morfydd wrote:
Yes Dakkajets should be a squadron of 1-3 like most of the other flyers out there ..
only flyers I am concerned with in my neck of the woods is a squadron Valks backed up by a squadron of Vend's..they chew my armies up...

valks/vend are the ONLY ones that can be taken in squads....how is that most flyers? While I agree that the Nob biker deathstar is more survivable ( I use one that is fantastic) a cheaper tactic that it just as survivable is 5 meganobz and grotsnik in a trukk screaming towards the enemy front line. I actually weathered 36 wounds with only losing 1 model and 2 wounds on grotsnik in a single round of shooting.

Problem i have with the KFF these days is that 1) a flamer template completely ignores it 2) its save is little better than our t-shirt save otherwise. My meta your list wouldnt last very long as volume of firepower is out there way too much now, I would spend more time removing/moving models than playing them. but Your meta may vary greatly and do things differently. I think my big issue right now is that my opponent takes up so much of my game time in tourneys that I have to use units that take fewer and are more survivable and greatly faster. Only because I'll be lucky to finish 3 turns in 2 hours. Sad when the ork player is faster than the Deathwing player

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Unless something happens i'll be participating in my first tourny in about 2 weeks (its just like ~10 people using a tourny as an excuse to get everyone together at once)

I have always been bad at making lists because i am rather inexperienced with my orks, basically been doing trial and error with random lists. Been getting better, but i still lose majority of the time (but im not getting plastered anymore thats what counts)

Heres my list:

HQ: KFF Mek w/ PKlaw/CB 120
HQ: Meganob Boss w/ CB/BP 115
Elites: 10x Kommandos w/ 3 Burnas and Snikrot - 230
Elites: 2x 7 Lootas 105(210)
Troops: 3x 30 Shoota Boyz w/ Nob PK/BP and 3 BS 235(705)
Troops: 1x 30 Slugga Boyz w/ Nob PK/BP 220
Heavy: 2x 3Kannon Batteries w/ 3 Ammorunts and +2 Crew 75(150)
Total: 1750

It will be a tight fit or have a group of boyz uncovered, but i decided to sac a KFF for my footslogging army to do the Meganob Boss Surprise tactic i pulled on a necron player (he was not happy to say the least). Basically its put him in front of the Kommandos and use that 2+ as your cover save, and LOS any AP2 attacks. Burnas are there for 3 powerweapons to deal with MEQs since im bound to only have ~7-8 kommandos left including snikrot, not much of a threat w/o the burnas.
If i end up facing an opponent lacking piplates i can easily keep my army under cover (since spacing wont be an issue), otherwise probably 1 unit will remain uncovered, and focused first obviously.

Initially i wanted Boomgun Wagons because ive been trying to make a list involving them for some time, but i always see major flaws when i put them in. This list's flaw was i either fielded a single low AV'd vehicle (bad idea) or had next to no lootas (worse idea). So i settled for Kannons, move them up on turn 1 and just camp out the rest of the game enjoying 6 S8 AP3 shots at Bs3 with ammo runts if i need it. Considerably harder to take out than an AV11 vehicle too.

Anyone see a major flaw in my army i need to rethink, or am i good to go? None of us are die-hard gamers, but some are pretty good regardless.

EDIT: Oh, the random slugga group is because i dont have 120 Shoota Boyz and we'd rather not proxy for this "tourny" and i assume by the time my 4th group is needed anyway im in charging range so i want the extra attack.

This list is begging for an ADL+quad gun.
Dump the commandos, they got nerfed this edition

Whoops, dont know why i thought they could take 3 burnas.

The thing about necrons and mindshackle scarabs against this list is i have 2 characters, i'll initiate the challenge every time with Snikrot as he really isnt that strong (rerolls to hits....thats it) making him ignore my boss. Also works if i go against a Tyranid and i pop up on the side near a Tyrant. If he charges me i just deny with Snikrot, LOS any melee attacks and pklaw him down and AP3 him down (thats why i have the burnas, not for the overwatch, their numbers are a bit thin to be a threat to something with a save worth bothering)
Not to mention i can easily just pop up away from the dude with scarabs. Our local cron player likes to be aggressive as hell with HQs that have mscarabs with wraiths, theyre bound to be on the wrong side of the board. Snikrot can appear wherever he wants after all.

The thing about the biker nobz is yea theyre stupid hard to deal with because you just cant negate their saves completely, but theyre low saves. Ive had games where they passed damn near everything, also had games where they got wiped off the board turn 1 (not joking). Yes that can happen with a 2+ save as well, but much less likely. My friends rarely bring more than 1-2 weapons based for anti-horde play (i dont count Tesla because you need to land 6s for it to actually be anti-horde).
The other reason i want to run this instead of a bikernob list is bikernobz still have issues reaching a tankline, this doesnt. Every time i have faced an IG tankline or even a necron gunline with arcs all over the place i just cant reach them because my saves arent good enough to survive THAT much fire most of the time. I think ive reached the IG tank-line once with bikernobz, and that was my lone bikerboss that got there (which didnt last long w/o his FNP)

Dont get me wrong i love the bikernobz, but i always run them lol. The tourny isnt till the 23rd, so i'll have time to run a practice game first (i was trying out Tau today since i finally got my codex for the damn broadside support tactic) and if i get crushed horribly i'll swap to a bikernob missile again.
EDIT: And yea i was thinking of dropping the sluggas to afford an ADL/Quad/10 Grots/fully kit the lootas out. Probably a better idea than slugga boyz....
EDIT: I revised the list slightly.

HQ: KFF Mek 85
HQ: Meganob Boss w/ CB/BP/AS 130
Elites: 10x Kommandos w/ 2 Burnas and Snikrot - 215
Elites: 2x 10 Lootas 150(300)
Troops: 3x 30 Shoota Boyz w/ Nob PK/BP and 3 BS 235(705)
Troops: 10x Grotz w/ Runtherd 40
Fortification: ADL w/ Quad, 100
Heavy: 2x 3Kannon Batteries w/ 3 Ammorunts and +6 Crew 87(174)
Total: 1749

At first i wanted to keep the Mek's pk because my thinking was "But one always gets challenged out" but then i remembered wait i can just deny with the mek derp lol and rarely do you need 2 pk's anyway except in a situation where one is challenged out.

Looks like its an even more solid tide list now ..3 turns of walkin then the crumpin starts

What is the plan with Snikrot and the kommandos? They are going to be stuck out there for a turn as they can't charge. They don't have the fire power to make them worth while when they outflank. Even if the Boss is with them they are still going to die. I would really reconsider them.

Other then that, hope you can move all those boyz in a timely fashion.

Good Luck!

The snikrot group is a way to be on the other side of the table with something very, very deadly if not dealt with forcing him to pump all the shots in there. In a way its a bit of a throwaway, because its equally as big of a bulletmagnet as bikernobz, but 2+ is a bit harder to crack so unless i wiff the saves right off (LOSing any AP2 attacks) it gives me atleast 1 turn of free movement when my boyz. If he doesnt kill them (which every time ive done this they havent done more than 1 wound) then they split and charge 2 things, 7-9 boyz + snikrot is a threat as it is especially with the 2 AP3 boyz against MEQs, but the Meganob boss is also an issue. You literally have nowhere to run so you have to try and fight them down, because if you run from the snikrot group the boyz will charge you next turn that thats probably way worse of an idea.

Yea, its not 100% practical and has a bit of a gamble, but its different and still viable, thats whats important. Often the element of surprise is more important than the actual act. Everyone expects nobbikers out of orks so they gear up for anti-cover, AP4 attacks not AP2 attacks (except on the 1-2 attacks that could potentially instapaste).
And i run ~10-15 less models on average w/o a greentide, im used to moving this many. If i still had the additional 30 sluggas i might be moving slow, but 90 isnt that bad since noone is a douche about measuring EVERY model since they know after the first 4-6 models are moved youre probably gimping yourself more than helping by not measuring to just "fill the gaps"

Well if that is what you want to do with Snikrot and company then go right ahead. Its just something I would not want to do. Seems like alot of points just to cause a diversion.

its still cheaper than the 5man biker missile w/ a bikerboss, and thats equally as big of a diversion because it fething hurts if you dont deal with it.
Like i said its not a perfect alternative, but its a different one that wont be expected.

My one suggestion is to pick the dead group (I would elect the slugga boys) and leave it at 30. I have found 30 boyz to be a bit unwieldy... I would suggest go from 3 x 30 slugga boyz to 4 x 20 with a PK nob.., If you have some points left over, add some big shootas to each of the mobz. It is nice to dakka up the opponent before you charge...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I agree that Snikrot is a lot of points for a diversion... If you have them, why not a minimum unit of stormboyz and Zagstrukk? He can deep strike in, and hopefully be in range of a charge on the first turn... Nothing like a bunch of PK attacks on a Landraider or Lehman Russ.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Another option would be to turn your kommandoes into a bas a$$ed unit of nobz with slugga and choppa with a waagh banner... Not bad for 230 points... a bunch of S4 attacks going at I4 with 2 wounds each hitting on 3+ and then add the Boss and Big Mek with Power Claw attacks... Besides, it would be a troop choice.

Nobz are I3 not I4, footnobz get focused out before they do anything, and Zagstrukk always mishaps since he needs to be so close to do anything.

I'd rather be 4x20 for more PKs and an extra target in case something HUGE causes like 20+ wounds (unlikely but ive had it happen where a group of bikers with TL shots landed every shot and wounded every shot...that hurts) but the issue is where do i get the extra 40pts from? Its not an even split, i need to pay for another nob now and it isnt there unless i cut off kommandos (not doin that, im bound to look out sir 3-4 of them so theyre going to be thin enough). It would be even worse if i had the bikernob list since thats ~150pts more than the kommando one.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Nobz are I3 not I4, footnobz get focused out before they do anything, and Zagstrukk always mishaps since he needs to be so close to do anything.

I'd rather be 4x20 for more PKs and an extra target in case something HUGE causes like 20+ wounds (unlikely but ive had it happen where a group of bikers with TL shots landed every shot and wounded every shot...that hurts) but the issue is where do i get the extra 40pts from? Its not an even split, i need to pay for another nob now and it isnt there unless i cut off kommandos (not doin that, im bound to look out sir 3-4 of them so theyre going to be thin enough). It would be even worse if i had the bikernob list since thats ~150pts more than the kommando one.

Unless I am mistaken, Nobz get +1 S and +1 I on the charge. Good focus on my Nobz covered by boyz mobz... I am an ork and more than happy to take a 4++ cover save.
The point is the nobz will be more valuable than the kommandoes. At worst they have the 5+ cover save of the KFF. Zagstrukk and the stormboyz is a gimmick - just like Snikrot and his commandoes... The commandoes will come in, hopefully drop their flamer template on a high value target like devastators and then proceed to get shot up.
At most your commandoes - with 15 of them - are going to provide 16 wounds... for the same cost, I get 20 wounds under a 5+ cover bubble, that get to provide a focus for enemy fire. -

Nobz with choppa and slugga are not impressive but then again it only costs me 200+ points instead of 400+ points for nobz with waagh banner, cybork bodies and 2 or 3 power claws. If I were going to rate nobz right now I would say Nob Bikerz #1, Meganobz #2 and butt naked Nobz with a Waagh Banner #3. The only no go - for me - is foot nobz fully outfitted. (Flashgits if you consider them nobz are a distant 5th.)

Hopefully my nobz are going to provide focus to enemy fire for turn 1 while I am charging... Meaning my boyz are unscathed. On the other hand, I hope for the idiot who ignores them and they get into charge range, 3+ hitting 3+ wounding with what 4 or 5 attacks each and then a Warboss and perhaps Big Mek to follow up with some Power Klaw hits well that would be gravy.

Look at it this way:

Snikrot + Kommandoes: Pros - deliver some burnas into enemy back lines. Force enemy to focus on them the turn they arrive. Con - Can't charge on turn of arrival. 33% chance of failing to arrive on Turn 2. Low wound total.

Zaggstrukk + Stormboyz: Pros: Uses a FA slot. Can slaughter a tank or other high value target. Con: Lose stormboyz to charge, mishap table, can scatter too far, 33% chance of failing to arrive on Turn 2. Low wound total.

Nobz with Waagh Banner: Pros: Biggest threat means it should get targeted. 5++ cover if I have a KFF. 3+ to hit. Actually go at the same time as SM on the charge.
Most wounds. Cons: On the board from the beginning and can be targeted or outmanuevered by fast stuff. (This is mixed blessing as this gets targeted instead of boyz mobz meaning they should hit more intact.)

IF you go first and IF your opponent has a juicy target and IF you get them to show on turn 2. The kommandoes are valuable.
Pretty much the same applies to Zaggstruck with the extra if of deep stricking on target but he can affect an enemy's higher strength stuff.

If you like the IF factor, Zaggstrukk or Snikrot is better. Sorry I am an Gork ork. Line em up and krump something. I am not a sneaky git who trusts in Mork.

 Vineheart01 wrote:


HQ: KFF Mek 85
HQ: Meganob Boss w/ CB/BP/AS 130
Elites: 10x Kommandos w/ 2 Burnas and Snikrot - 215
Elites: 2x 10 Lootas 150(300)
Troops: 3x 30 Shoota Boyz w/ Nob PK/BP and 3 BS 235(705)
Troops: 10x Grotz w/ Runtherd 40
Fortification: ADL w/ Quad, 100
Heavy: 2x 3Kannon Batteries w/ 3 Ammorunts and +6 Crew 87(174)
Total: 1749

I would drop 2 lootas (one from each squad): Logic it takes 3 wounds either way to force a moral check, and if they are hiding behind the ADL they shouldn't take too many wounds if they jump to ground.
This allows you to take 7 more grots and a kommando which puts a wound where it is needed and makes your grots a bit more survivable since they will have 18 wounds to go through.
with a larger grot unit it opens up some tactics like grot screening the one troop of boyz that are out of KFF range and then have them assault and if they get shot at go to ground and then have the boys charge in. that or you can not have them go to ground and run in the movement phase to block a counter charge. If not you can reserve and have em walk on later in the game.

I don't know how much your big guns get shot at, but also with the line ( I think they are a million miles long) costs almost as much as 3 big guns squads which might make it better to take the smaller gun squads where the extra 3 (you can drop 1 grot from the prior mentioned squad of 18 to get the 3x3 kannons) The 3 extra shots a turn should be better than 3 rerolls to hit over the course of a game since all an ammo run does is make the weapon twin linked for a turn.

You also have 45 points put into big shootas. I might be undervaluing them, but 5 points for 1 extra shot and str 5 (ok, ap 5) vs a 6 point boy I think I will always go for the boy, That is a second squad of grots to camp objectives, more wounds in the kommando squad. Then your inclusion of them made me think about av 11 fliers. I assume that if I'm not within 18" of someone I'm going to run that turn to get a better position.

As for the charge thing, the +1 Initiative went away its just +1 attack and strength (strength due to furious charge). Rather lose the +1 strength in a vast majority of situations than the +1I lol.

Big gunz are usually ignored unless you have something that isnt 1-shot per game that can take them out without even trying (big time heavy flamer like from a Dreadknight for instance or a spell) because they are too tough to take out from the random fire and, quite frankly, even a lowly 10man boyz squad puts out more fire its just the range/punch power that makes it so good (and its cheap/a heavy slot which is usually not used in lists like this anyway).

I usually keep the bigshootas if i can because ive had many times where that +1 strength or the range actually helped me more than you think. Theyre usually one of the first things i look at when i need a point cut though, since it isnt THAT much more than a shoota (shootas are also ap5).
You are right about the additional kannon group though, it is better than 6 1-time rerolls, i'll tweak my list a bit to see if i can squeeze it in there. If it werent for losing the quad gun i'd just lose the ADL and use the Big Gunz as cover for my lootas (intervening models ftw) if there arent any good ruins around. But i think that quad gun is too important so nevermind.

Might say scrap the kannons all together and try to squeeze another 100pts from somewhere to get 2-3 dakkajets. My luck with dakkajets are horrible though, they always die the first time someone points a gun at them. Big gun or not. Meh, im going to test this list monday or tuesday so i'll see how it runs then.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
As for the charge thing, the +1 Initiative went away its just +1 attack and strength (strength due to furious charge). Rather lose the +1 strength in a vast majority of situations than the +1I lol.

Big gunz are usually ignored unless you have something that isnt 1-shot per game that can take them out without even trying (big time heavy flamer like from a Dreadknight for instance or a spell) because they are too tough to take out from the random fire and, quite frankly, even a lowly 10man boyz squad puts out more fire its just the range/punch power that makes it so good (and its cheap/a heavy slot which is usually not used in lists like this anyway).

I usually keep the bigshootas if i can because ive had many times where that +1 strength or the range actually helped me more than you think. Theyre usually one of the first things i look at when i need a point cut though, since it isnt THAT much more than a shoota (shootas are also ap5).
You are right about the additional kannon group though, it is better than 6 1-time rerolls, i'll tweak my list a bit to see if i can squeeze it in there. If it werent for losing the quad gun i'd just lose the ADL and use the Big Gunz as cover for my lootas (intervening models ftw) if there arent any good ruins around. But i think that quad gun is too important so nevermind.

Might say scrap the kannons all together and try to squeeze another 100pts from somewhere to get 2-3 dakkajets. My luck with dakkajets are horrible though, they always die the first time someone points a gun at them. Big gun or not. Meh, im going to test this list monday or tuesday so i'll see how it runs then.

Sad sad situation... That +1 I was the one reason that nobz with choppas and uge choppas made sense (and the cost) over power claws. OrKs might as well pick of uge boulders and try to crush people now - they are going last no matter what.

Big choppas are still awesome, i try to put them on my bikernobz every time i take them but theyre usually the first thing i look at when i need points cut. 4attacks at Str7 is much better than 5 at str5. Especially since that missile is meant to go after the medium-tire infantry (elites n whatnot) or vehicles, where str5 either wounds on average rolls or does almost nothing whereas str7 wounds on 2s and glances/pens much easier.

I agree. I'd have BCs on all my Nobz that don't have PKs.

you were right i was able to get a third Kannon group almost solely by cutting the extra crew and ammo runts. I took off 1 bigshoota for the other 5 i needed.

Now im 1750 flat and have 3x 3kannons. I got more scratchbuildin to do lol