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you can place an objective behind an agies defense line or even encircled in one. There is no "in" an ADL. An ADL is essentially a 2 dimensional object that offers cover if a shot crosses it to a model obscured by it. I challenge you to put something in an ADL.

Why would they not roll for instability as an ally? I know you don't roll for warpstorm but I thought you still rolled instability.

Indeed - my error. Early morning brain far#

They are shrouded, are not slowed by terrain can infiltrate and have poison. What do you want for the cost. They can hold up a unit for a good few turns. They are cheap for what they do. They have poison. They will not always get their points back but they will always be a big nuisance. A friend uses them with the GUO and tries to get warp speed and any other power that buffs them or diminishes their target. Not my taste in tactics but it works for him. Among the troops they are the most durable cost to wound and most survivable cost to damage (bolter/S6+).

I'm just saying that it is too easy to dismiss them. Nurgle as a whole is quite durable. Plague Drones are the second most durable unit to cost in the codex, btw. They don't score either. Does not make them useless though.

I'll put in perspective this way

Nurglings - 3.5 points/wound
Daemonettes - 9 points/wound
Horrors - 9 points/wound
Plaguebearers - 9 points/wound

Now we consider resilience. The number of S4, S7, and S8 shots required to kill a single model are listed. I'm not even considering shrouding on the nurgle troops.

Nurglings - 9 / 1.8 / 1.8
Plaguebearers - 3 / 1.8 / 1.8
Horrors - 2.45 / 1.96 / 1.96
Bloodletters - 2.25 / 1.8 / 1.8
Daemonettes - 2.25 / 1.8 / 1.8

Nurglings look better now don't they. Yes a template or blast will take out double the models. They can be IDed. Still - a 2+ save in cover until they assault is pretty good.

My initial point is that I want to spend as little as possible on Troops if I'm a Daemons player. While Nurglings are potentially better than some of the other troop choices, I don't particularly think the other choices are that good to begin with.

If I want annoying CC units, I'll spend on the beast and cav units. Points go fast there. For troops, I want a couple min Plaguebearer units and nothing more.

Nuglings don't even have poison, so they can't even hurt certain units. Investment in guardsmen strength, S&P? I think I'd rather spend the point per nurgling on Cultists. "Same" statline, and able to actually do things other than be an annoyance.

Its been mentioned elsewhere, but not in this thread AFAICS, Nurglings infiltrated in a line will confer a cover save to all units behind them, as shooting through a unit automatically gives cover. So that's a multi wound model with a 3++ in all likelihood, shielding probably half your army, even if deployed in the open. If those happen to be other Daemons of Nurgle you're golden.

Your opponent's choices are ignore them and allow them to protect your army, waste resources shooting or assaulting a cheap sacrificial unit instead of something more important or risk them charging in and tying up units, becoming a further p in the a.

I can see them being a very effective sacrificial disruption unit

 azreal13 wrote:
Its been mentioned elsewhere, but not in this thread AFAICS, Nurglings infiltrated in a line will confer a cover save to all units behind them, as shooting through a unit automatically gives cover. So that's a multi wound model with a 3++ in all likelihood, shielding probably half your army, even if deployed in the open. If those happen to be other Daemons of Nurgle you're golden.

Your opponent's choices are ignore them and allow them to protect your army, waste resources shooting or assaulting a cheap sacrificial unit instead of something more important or risk them charging in and tying up units, becoming a further p in the a.

I can see them being a very effective sacrificial disruption unit

except that pesky demonic instability meaning they are not a tar pit in any sense of the word. They will be stompped dead very quickly.

I'm not advocating them as a tar pit, just something to tie up shooty units for one or two rounds of combat while your other units advance. Against some S3T3 units, they may even do enough to win. Their strength is that they are cheap enough for you to throw them away, but your oppo can't just ignore them.

I tried something yesterday with surprising results. I brought the following against orks.
* 40 bloodletters w/2 heralds
* 20 daemonettes
* 20 horrors w/1 herald
* 12 plague bearers
* GUO

I started with the horrors and plague bearers on the table. One squad of 'letters and 'nettes had an instrument. I started with one deep strike of a bloodletter. I then auto-succeeded with a deep strike of the 'nettes using the instrument. I then deep struck the GUO and auto-succeeded with the other bloodletters.

The instruments were very helpful with my deep strikes by turning two successful deep strike results into four. By using the icons I only scattered d6" for even the GUO and 'nettes. By striking the second 'letter squad last I knew I could put it anywhere.
The theory was this "daemon calvary gives you 1 turn to shoot at them. If you deep strike infantry you get the same result. The enemy has one round before your on them.

The flaw with this is simple. Against assault armies (like 90 ork boys) you don't want to drop right in front of them. They will just shoot and assault you. That's because your effective assault range is not that much greater.
What the seekers/khorne dogs give you is the ability to move 12" and then assault -- greatly increasing the chance of you getting that all-important assault off.

Edit : For what its worth, what you hear about a GUO being able to just sit on an objective and kill infantry is true. It did an amazing job at just beating the crap out of ork squads all game and contesting an objective it landed on.

I've been mulling over infantry deep strikes since the rumors hit for a lot of the reasons you outlined. I think some people are still selling it short. With comm-links, instruments, icons, and Slaaneshi run moves, you'll usually get almost everything in on turn 2 and be able to set the table very well for turn 3.

Not that I'm down on the fast stuff, mind you. My lists have been moving toward a "thirds" approach, with fast beasts/cav, deep striking infantry, and objective/baseline-holding infantry each representing a very rough third of my army.

On the topic of horrors: They only put out as much firepower as a tactical squad. Deny the Witch stops their psychic shooting. A single d6 roll can neuter them for a full turn. Also, can't use it in over watch.

This weekend I found out how often that damn 6 comes up for Deny the Witch. Ugh...

 kronk wrote:
On the topic of horrors: They only put out as much firepower as a tactical squad. Deny the Witch stops their psychic shooting. A single d6 roll can neuter them for a full turn. Also, can't use it in over watch.

This weekend I found out how often that damn 6 comes up for Deny the Witch. Ugh...

Yeah I'm pretty much definitely shelving my horrors for now, yes they can potentially put out a lot of pew pew but there's to much in my area that shuts them down completely, can't wait for the eldar and space wolf updates to come through.

 gorgon wrote:
I've been mulling over infantry deep strikes since the rumors hit for a lot of the reasons you outlined. I think some people are still selling it short. With comm-links, instruments, icons, and Slaaneshi run moves, you'll usually get almost everything in on turn 2 and be able to set the table very well for turn 3.

Not that I'm down on the fast stuff, mind you. My lists have been moving toward a "thirds" approach, with fast beasts/cav, deep striking infantry, and objective/baseline-holding infantry each representing a very rough third of my army.

I plan on bringing 1 squad of daemonettes with my seekers. The seekers are going to be getting in on turn 2, the daemonettes will DS near the icon and assault on turn 3.

I'm also wondering if I DS in the wrong pattern. With the banner of blood, I could have dropped 14" and had a good chance of getting the assault off. If he would have backed up he would have only been shooting me with big shootas. Dropping the daemonettes in front of the ADL was win, as I went to ground behind it for a 2+ cover when he shot the poop out of them with shoot boy squads.

Since I'm sitting on a bunch of troops I'm going to play with it until I get my seekers/khorne dogs built.

 kronk wrote:
On the topic of horrors: They only put out as much firepower as a tactical squad. Deny the Witch stops their psychic shooting. A single d6 roll can neuter them for a full turn. Also, can't use it in over watch.

This weekend I found out how often that damn 6 comes up for Deny the Witch. Ugh...

How do you figure? If you have a PG and ML in a MEQ tac squad, your killing 2 MEQ at 20". A set up horror squad is killing 4.66 MEQ per turn. (when not denied)

The problem with horrors is that they are very random. You might roll 25 shots and just mess up a squad and then hit them on the backside with a failed warpfire roll. Or you might piff out 7 shots and give your target FNP.
That's why I'm leaning away from them. While great, random units in armies cannot give reliable wins.