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Hey guys,

this question came up and it was worth discussing in our round.

I am in favor of saying: No, you cannot choose Stand&shoot if charged from the rear (flank?) because the paragraph refers to you, if choosing that reaction, performing a regular shooting attack that requires, among other things, LOS to the target.

Any input is welcome!

Best regards,

Sigvatr

You can declare it, but you won't be able to shoot because you lack LoS to the target. So its exactly the same as a Hold reaction.

And LOS is drawn within a 45 degree arc from the front rank, correct?

 Tangent wrote:
And LOS is drawn within a 45 degree arc from the front rank, correct?

had this question come up last night,

played it that each rank drew its own 45 degree arc for shooting but front rank used for charge purposes.

not that its right, but an answer would be appreciated here too.

90° - 45° to the left, 45° to the right. You only take the first rank into question.

In regards to my previous question, I wonder if this also applies to the Skaven ratling gun team given their special rule that allows them to pivot...although I consider it to only be applied in the shooting phase.

Additional question: if you first charge from the flank, and then another unit charge into the front, can they react to you then or are they counted as being in close combat since the first group charged into the flank?

Edit to be clear: @ Dracoknight

The process is:

1. Declare a charge with a unit.
2. The charged target chooses a reaction.
3. Perform that reaction immediately.

Repeat steps 1-3 until there are no more charges (there may be more steps if a redirect is needed due to a fleeing unit).

Once all charges are declared (and thus reactions resolved) begin rolling for and resolving charges, in any order you desire (with units charging the same target moving simultaneously).

In this way, a unit can declare multiple reactions. Hold to the first charge declared, stand and fire to the second, and flee from the third, for instance...

Edit: So in your example, the unit would not be considered in combat and could stand and shoot.

From what I understand, both charge reactions are declared at the same time, and both are declared and resolved BEFORE moving any chargers. So, one unit declares a charge to the flank, and the receiving unit elects to hold. Then, another unit declares a charge to the front, and the receiving unit elects to stand and shoot. The stand and shoot is resolved, and then you roll for charge distance, and then you move the charging units.

 Tangent wrote:
From what I understand, both charge reactions are declared at the same time, and both are declared and resolved BEFORE moving any chargers. So, one unit declares a charge to the flank, and the receiving unit elects to hold. Then, another unit declares a charge to the front, and the receiving unit elects to stand and shoot. The stand and shoot is resolved, and then you roll for charge distance, and then you move the charging units.

No, the book is pretty clear. You declare a charge and resolve the reaction. Then, you declare your next charge and resolve the reaction. You don't declare both of your units at the same time.

Sorry, that's kinda what I meant. I was just trying to say that you don't move the chargers until the reactions are declared. So, a unit that is being charged by 10 different units can still stand and shoot at the unit he chooses.

Thanks for the answers, that clear up some of my tactics to hold a few chargest to avoid stand&shoot reactions and just use it for movements instead of charges.

 PinkSpaceHippy wrote:

 Tangent wrote:
From what I understand, both charge reactions are declared at the same time, and both are declared and resolved BEFORE moving any chargers. So, one unit declares a charge to the flank, and the receiving unit elects to hold. Then, another unit declares a charge to the front, and the receiving unit elects to stand and shoot. The stand and shoot is resolved, and then you roll for charge distance, and then you move the charging units.

No, the book is pretty clear. You declare a charge and resolve the reaction. Then, you declare your next charge and resolve the reaction. You don't declare both of your units at the same time.

40k works like this. In fantasy ALL charges are effectively simultaneous. Declare reactions to all charges and resolve the charges. As I umderstand it.

No, it is actually a sequence. You declare a charge, that unit immediate declares and resolves a reaction. You then declare the next charge, etc.

So if the first unit to be charged declares a Flee, you can then charge that unit again with another unit, as long as the first Flee reaction and move keeps you (or brings you into) range to do so. Yu can get a unit off the table in one turn this way.

This is explictily different to previous editions, where you would declare all charges then declare all reactions, meaning a unit could only flee from one charge in one given phase.

I'm on holiday so my BRB is ~3k km away from me but doesnt the BRB even has examples for that specific S&S question?

nosferatu1001 wrote:
No, it is actually a sequence. You declare a charge, that unit immediate declares and resolves a reaction. You then declare the next charge, etc.

So if the first unit to be charged declares a Flee, you can then charge that unit again with another unit, as long as the first Flee reaction and move keeps you (or brings you into) range to do so. Yu can get a unit off the table in one turn this way.

This is explictily different to previous editions, where you would declare all charges then declare all reactions, meaning a unit could only flee from one charge in one given phase.

This is how I understood it as well, but you don't actually move the CHARGING units until after ALL charges have been declared and ALL charge reactions have been resolved, right?

So, Unit A declares a charge on Unit X. Unit X elects to hold. Then, Unit B declares a charge on Unit X. Unit X elects to Stand and Shoot. All charges have been declared and all reactions resolved, so NOW you roll charge ranges and move charging units.

Right?

 Tangent wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
No, it is actually a sequence. You declare a charge, that unit immediate declares and resolves a reaction. You then declare the next charge, etc.

So if the first unit to be charged declares a Flee, you can then charge that unit again with another unit, as long as the first Flee reaction and move keeps you (or brings you into) range to do so. Yu can get a unit off the table in one turn this way.

This is explictily different to previous editions, where you would declare all charges then declare all reactions, meaning a unit could only flee from one charge in one given phase.

This is how I understood it as well, but you don't actually move the CHARGING units until after ALL charges have been declared and ALL charge reactions have been resolved, right?

So, Unit A declares a charge on Unit X. Unit X elects to hold. Then, Unit B declares a charge on Unit X. Unit X elects to Stand and Shoot. All charges have been declared and all reactions resolved, so NOW you roll charge ranges and move charging units.

Right?

Correct.
If you've got enough small units it could work out like this.

A declares charge on X, X holds.
B declares charge on X, X stands and shoots.
C declares charge on X, X flees and is moved 2D6" away from C.
D is still within it's max charge range of X, and declares a charge, X being broken flees again, this time away from D.

Also, since the BRB, as soon as X chooses to flee from X, units A,B and C all can try and redirect if they want to.

Being able to force another flee is a good use of very small very fast units. When a block flees the long charge from the Iron Gut Death Star, use those sabre tusks to make them flee again.

-Matt

Wow. So, in your example, lets consider Unit B. If Unit B gets shot by Unit X (who subsequently flees) and then redirects to Unit Y, can Unit Y also stand and shoot at Unit B?

Yes, assuming Unit Y meets all the normal stand and shoot requirements.

This is correct:

The process is:

1. Declare a charge with a unit.
2. The charged target chooses a reaction.
3. Perform that reaction immediately.

Repeat steps 1-3 until there are no more charges (there may be more steps if a redirect is needed due to a fleeing unit).

Although it should then be said that you can move the charging units after all of this and in any order you want.

If you check the BRB, it's pretty clear on the sequence of events. There is even a little table describing it all. As for stand & shoot, in essence it is a shooting attack so has to be resolved against a unit in the front arc. Again, the BRB is clea ron this if you read it.