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I still don't get it. S10 AP1, but that's just one wound. It's not as if it will instant kill anything, what with most troops being T6.

Oh wait, you don't play 'nids. HAHAHAHA! (J/k)

Nah, seriously. It is a bit scary. But don't forget jink is a cover save (a fair number of weapons deny that), and you can take an Aegis defence line now. So it's not so bad. If you camp some psykers with Div. near the skyfire weapons, 'cron Air is a lot less lethal.

Tyranidfreek01 wrote:
I still don't get it. S10 AP1, but that's just one wound. It's not as if it will instant kill anything, what with most troops being T6.

Oh wait, you don't play 'nids. HAHAHAHA! (J/k)

Nah, seriously. It is a bit scary. But don't forget jink is a cover save (a fair number of weapons deny that), and you can take an Aegis defence line now. So it's not so bad. If you camp some psykers with Div. near the skyfire weapons, 'cron Air is a lot less lethal.

Skyfire weapons are relatively rare and are limited in availability, divination isn't available to everyone, and few weapons capable of hurting AV13 or that have Skyfire ignore cover saves (bar the Hydra, which still can only hope for glances against the AV13 skimmers). A single Aegis gun isn't exactly the scariest thing in the world.

I mean, don't get me wrong, I've blown up my share of necron vehicles with lascannons and meltaguns (because while they're AV13, they're also open-topped, so pretty susceptible to being killed by penetrating hits). The problem is that things like lascannons and meltaguns are the only things that have any serious chance of hurting them, especially before you start getting your face all full of warscythe.

Put another way, necrons in 6th are like necrons in 4th. You have to pack your lists with special anti-necron weapons because nothing else will cut it.

Black Templars are so OP that they aren't even part of the poll!

On a more sane note, how are BA anywhere near as bad as Templars?

Well, I went for Tau, mainly because my mate and I got bent over and seriously abused on seperate occasions by an army of 3 hammerheads and 3 x 4 suits with dual everything. The Hammerheads were rocking 3+ cover saves and could ignore terrain, while plasma with no gets hot just ruined everything I had.

that was my CSM and my mate's Space Puppies 2k armies.

Admittedly the list was not designed to go against vehicles, plus I made some tactical errors. But that's just such a huge amount of T6-10 shooty, even if I had gone broken org heavy, must of them would be blown up 1st turn.

I think I need daemon allies to DS into him. CSM just can't get across the board quick enough. turn 3 I had 2 units left (helchicken had just arrived and some troops cowering in the corner with their L9).

Though none of my guys have GK and the Guard and Cron friends ain't used to their armies yet.

But anyone not gunlining Tau is doing it wrong.

I voted GK but actually cronz.

I voted Necrons, as it's the codex with access to the most overpowered lists, not factoring in allies (and possibly still top dog factoring in allies) While the French Bakery of Doom has it's counters, a Wrathwing army with a strong air-force is very powerful and difficult to counter with a standard, all-comers list.

Crons take the top spot with guard coming in 2nd. Airforce is nearly unkillable at this point except for other flier armies. If you can bring both anti-inf and anti-tank with fliers, you can wipe almost any army off the board.

The whole cron airforce "yeah, im going to move 24, drop guys 6, then shoot them out to 12 with haywire and good anti-inf" bs means you wont have vehicles around turn 2-3 unless you sit them at the back of your table. Even if you do, the doom scythe will still draw lines across the board, blowing up whatever you tried to save. Did i mention all those transports have anti-light vehicle and anti-horde weapons also? And the ability to ignore the problems with crashing fliers for passengers.

Vendetta+Vulture guard is close behind. Being able to pop anything bar large terminator squads (who takes those these days?) the turn you come on, then proceed to continue doing so for the rest of the game with very little chance of being killed is pretty annoying. Add in all the other goodies guard get, such as cheap special weapons, accurate deepstrike meltas, magically appearing det packs, and cheap ability to run lots of troops give guard a huge advantage to those who have the money to run that kind of list.

Behind that? SW are still strong, but the cheap missle spam of 5th is less effective in 6th. GH, LW, and TWC are still as effective as ever, but the changing meta to a more infantry-focused concentration means that SW dont have as many of the cards as they did in 5th.

Nids are a wrench that gets thrown into a few lists. They out-tank some lists, but get obliterated by many more. Strong vs crons, BA, leafblower guard, eldar gunline. Weak vs DE, air guard, eldar harlequin spam, SW, GK, or armies allying in portions of the above.

I think it's interesting to note that orks are thus far undisputedly not considered OP
Though that could be something to do with the poll only allowing your top choice of OP....

Anyways I find that fact interesting. Orks can get some pretty nasty lists right up in your face by turn two, and they can spam so much stuff that enemy manouverability is almost impossible. (I don't think they're OP, btw, but nobody seems to really be factoring them in ).

What strikes me the most is the difference between the top dogs and the others.
From what I recall, in whole 5th edition there was never such a distinct leap between most voted OP armies and others. It was kinda smoother, not such a huge spike.
Right now we have first, second, third place and literally the rest not being even close to top 3.

One will also notice that the #1 spot has more than twice as many votes than #2, while the gap between #2 and #3 is nowhere near as pronounced, which is also telling in how each of the top are perceived relative to each other.

Also it should be noted

Orks =/= OP

Necrons are a bit ridiculous in some areas. IG and Gk still do some crazy things.

But mostly a few things could fix this

1. Necrons raise flyer points by 15-25%. Forgot one thing REMOVE MSS
2. GK remove Warp Quake, tighten up the inquistorial warband shenaningans.
3. IG Vendettas 230 pts (sorry but that is about what they should be compared to other flyers IMO) Also remove blobs leave them as separate squads. (Fluff portion) Put in some rules for Traitor guard, and fewer plasma guns in the army they are uncommon supposedly eveery tom dick and harry shouldn't have one. Meltas on the other hand are just fine.

Also interesting to note is that Matt Ward has written two of the top three OP codecies, and that all of them belong to the IOM.

Selym wrote:
Also interesting to note is that Matt Ward has written two of the top three OP codecies, and that all of them belong to the IOM.

Really the Necrons are part of the Imperium. Do tell.

 captain collius wrote:

Selym wrote:
Also interesting to note is that Matt Ward has written two of the top three OP codecies, and that all of them belong to the IOM.

Really the Necrons are part of the Imperium. Do tell.

They ally with the BA, but I meant that the other two were. Writing fail...

I still place certain guard, nercon and grey knight setups as the top.

As for the worst book overall, probably nercons.

Necron and IG cause of Flyer Spam. Cron is only higher than IG cause its much cheaper to get their flyers (IG Vendetta are gonna set you back at least $100 each unless you convert)

Most broken vehicle: chimeras
Most broken unit: wraiths, vets
Most broken flyer: vendetta, night scythe
Most broken wargear: mss, runes of f you psykers
Most broken characters: necron lord with mss
Most broken transport: night scythe

Kind of sums that up pretty well

 Formosa wrote:
Most broken vehicle: chimeras
Most broken unit: wraiths, vets
Most broken flyer: vendetta, night scythe
Most broken wargear: mss, runes of f you psykers
Most broken characters: necron lord with mss
Most broken transport: night scythe

Kind of sums that up pretty well

Seems legit.

Selym wrote:

 captain collius wrote:

Selym wrote:
Also interesting to note is that Matt Ward has written two of the top three OP codecies, and that all of them belong to the IOM.

Really the Necrons are part of the Imperium. Do tell.

They ally with the BA, but I meant that the other two were. Writing fail...

Its okay i just wanted an opportunity to say "do tell".

The weight people judge armies by flyers, in some cases almost exclusively, is interesting, and most telling indeed. Nobody seems to care how much armor you can field, how many scoring units you can bring, how much you can take advantage of psychic powers or how fast an army can be, but rather it's flyers and their ability to deal with them that seems to define

 Formosa wrote:
Most broken vehicle: chimeras
Most broken unit: wraiths, vets
Most broken flyer: vendetta, night scythe
Most broken wargear: mss, runes of f you psykers
Most broken characters: necron lord with mss
Most broken transport: night scythe

Chimeras? Really? Also, Vets? Vets and Chimeras work well together, but without each other aren't what they are together, and Chimeras are significantly less useful and *far* less survivable in 6E.

Wow, it's kind of a pleasant surprise that the time has finally come where Space Wolves aren't the uber-OP fest.

It's pretty funny that Necrons went from "kind of competitive if you abuse the hell out of certain poorly worded outdated rules" to "roflstomp everything".

I'd say imperial guard, but purely as allies to a marine book. They do thing's together that take away the weaknesses of guard armies. Guard are meant to suffer from low morale units, and giving them ATSKNF, takes away their biggest weakness. It's like giving all ork's 3+ armour, it would take away their biggest weakness of being squishy.

 Ailaros wrote:
I mean, don't get me wrong, I've blown up my share of necron vehicles with lascannons and meltaguns (because while they're AV13, they're also open-topped, so pretty susceptible to being killed by penetrating hits). The problem is that things like lascannons and meltaguns are the only things that have any serious chance of hurting them, especially before you start getting your face all full of warscythe.

Put another way, necrons in 6th are like necrons in 4th. You have to pack your lists with special anti-necron weapons because nothing else will cut it.

...lascannons are special anti-necron weapons now? O_o

 Amaya wrote:
It's pretty funny that Necrons went from "kind of competitive if you abuse the hell out of certain poorly worded outdated rules" to "roflstomp everything".

Consider yourself sigged.

necrons are just rediculoussly under costed on some awesome air units, that complement very effective, troops that are also pretty cheap for what they do,

add to this that when you play crons you can basically throw out the whole rule book because when you play crons it feels like im playing a totally different game,

why? because that unit you mostly killed isnt actually mostly dead?

As a Daemon player, I voted Grey Knights.

While Warp Quake isn't an outright auto-win button anymore, the GK codex is still nothing but a giant Trolling of Daemon players. No book should ever be an outright hard-counter to another entire book!

Even with list tailoring to specifically take-on Knights, it's still a massive uphill battle for Daemons. Just not fun in the least.
I'd rather spend 2 hours having my finger nails pulled out while hanging upside down by my eyeballs than face another pointless 20min waste-of-time playing against Derp Knights...

 IHateNids wrote:
why? because that unit you mostly killed isnt actually mostly dead?

Pretty much, yeah. It's frustrating being unable to counter some of the things in the necron book.

It's annoying as hell to kill something, and it still has a chance to come back to life. It's like "Okay, you can stop shooting now, but it might not be dead". It would have been infinitely less annoying if resurrection protocols was a saving throw of sorts, so that you could keep firing at something until you KNOW it's dead.

It's an uncounterable mechanic, and it's annoying as hell to play against.

Don't even get me started on the AP1 melee weapons at initiative, or the MSS.