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Hello I'm starting or continuing on a khorne/nurgle csm army and am relying on shock troops. So I'm just looking at what would be better or just use both, or even just go to something like nurgle beasts but first on topic.

Bloodcrushers have 3 wounds but lost t5 and 3+ save but you can get a invul of 3+ with the rewards on the leader of them.

The fleshounds are 2w each and cheaper no character upgrades though but if heavily used should use Karnak as a hq hunter.

So both have decent wounds for points good movement but I'm leaning towards a fleshound blob supported by a defiler soul grinder etc. but won't be anchored

The Flesh Hounds and Seekers look like the best bet for super fast melee threats to me.

Go with the Khorne dogs

Agree with above. The only bonus to the bloodcrushers are +1S, +1A, +1W, and AP3, but all that isn't worth it for 29 extra points, and they die the same to s8 as flesh hounds do. Here is what you want to do: stick a khorne herald on juggernaut with greater or exalted locus (depending on if you want rage or hatred, hatred is slightly better, but it doesn't matter all to much) and a greater etherblade. Gives him +1S, AP2, and master crafted. Then take a lesser reward (axe of khorne) and add +1 attack for two specialist weapons. That would be the best thing for the flesh hound unit. It would add a lot of potent S6 or S7 AP2, and the flesh hounds would add the hitting power.

That would be the best way to run flesh hounds IMO, also they are much better than bloodcrushers. So so so much better. Take them everytime

I concur. Go with the fleshhounds because they're so much cheaper than bloodcrushers. You get a lot more wounds and a lot more attacks for the same price.

Go with the hounds and place a herald on a jugg in it. This gives you the best of both worlds. Thisisnotpancho is spot on.

thisisnotpancho wrote:
Agree with above. The only bonus to the bloodcrushers are +1S, +1A, +1W, and AP3, but all that isn't worth it for 29 extra points, and they die the same to s8 as flesh hounds do. Here is what you want to do: stick a khorne herald on juggernaut with greater or exalted locus (depending on if you want rage or hatred, hatred is slightly better, but it doesn't matter all to much) and a greater etherblade. Gives him +1S, AP2, and master crafted. Then take a lesser reward (axe of khorne) and add +1 attack for two specialist weapons. That would be the best thing for the flesh hound unit. It would add a lot of potent S6 or S7 AP2, and the flesh hounds would add the hitting power.

That would be the best way to run flesh hounds IMO, also they are much better than bloodcrushers. So so so much better. Take them everytime

You're overlooking (and undervaluing) the fact they're now cavalry. So you can add high speed, HoW attacks at a respectable strength and ignoring cover to the plus column. If they still had T5 and 3+ they would be bordering OP as they would simply obliterate everything that wasn't rocking a 2+ and would be near unstoppable before they assaulted!

Edit: slightly misunderstood the comparison you were making. Even so, as they don't occupy the same slot, I see no reason not to take both!

They also get a banner, charge 6 + d6.. so you're guaranteed a 7.

Tsilber wrote:
They also get a banner, charge 6 + d6.. so you're guaranteed a 7.

Being fleet means they'll very rarely only manage a 7!

 azreal13 wrote:

Tsilber wrote:
They also get a banner, charge 6 + d6.. so you're guaranteed a 7.

Being fleet means they'll very rarely only manage a 7!

Also very true, wonder how that banner works when charging through cover. Perhaps a "you make the call" discussion.

Anyway, i run hounds now. I love em. But im purchasing bloodcrushers today.

thisisnotpancho wrote:
Agree with above. The only bonus to the bloodcrushers are +1S, +1A, +1W, and AP3, but all that isn't worth it for 29 extra points, and they die the same to s8 as flesh hounds do. Here is what you want to do: stick a khorne herald on juggernaut with greater or exalted locus (depending on if you want rage or hatred, hatred is slightly better, but it doesn't matter all to much) and a greater etherblade. Gives him +1S, AP2, and master crafted. Then take a lesser reward (axe of khorne) and add +1 attack for two specialist weapons. That would be the best thing for the flesh hound unit. It would add a lot of potent S6 or S7 AP2, and the flesh hounds would add the hitting power.

That would be the best way to run flesh hounds IMO, also they are much better than bloodcrushers. So so so much better. Take them everytime

Greater reward on the herald of khorne is most of the time a better option than the weapon imho, getting FnP, reroll on your invul or sv 3+ is great for such an awesome HQ, specially when mounted on a juggy.

The hounds are good but they are expensive for allies if you are going CSM primary and Daemons allies, I'd keep it cheap with Bloodletters and the herald on foot, maybe on juggy, even thou you kinda lose the benefits on cavalry they buff on the stats is pretty juicy.

 azreal13 wrote:

You're overlooking (and undervaluing) the fact they're now cavalry. So you can add high speed, HoW attacks at a respectable strength and ignoring cover to the plus column. If they still had T5 and 3+ they would be bordering OP as they would simply obliterate everything that wasn't rocking a 2+ and would be near unstoppable before they assaulted!

Edit: slightly misunderstood the comparison you were making. Even so, as they don't occupy the same slot, I see no reason not to take both!

While you make good points on the value of crushers, it is the absurd point value for them compared to hounds that seal the deal for me. They are just too expensive for non-eternal warriors with a 5+ save. I can get 3 dogs for every bloodcrusher and they have scout. Granted, I give up a lot, but in the end, I think the dogs win out.

With that being said, I think a mean list would have 2 units of flesh hounds (with heralds on juggs) backed up by a unit of crushers with karanak in it. Now, you have the best of both worlds. You have 3 units scouting forward 12", moving 12", running 7ish", and giving your opponent something to worry about because come turn 2, these are all going to be in his face.

I'm going to be taking both, and since my Skulltaker on Chariot is now pointless, he'll be joining them. You can use one to soak Overwatch should you wish. And don't forget a large squad of Bloodcrushers can easily multicharge a large portion of the enemy, tying them up.

Let's see.

Bloodcrushers -
Pros:
- 12" movement
- Fleet
- Furious Charge
- Hammer of Wrath, so additional S6 AP- hit on the charge
- 3 wounds
- AP3
- Not slowed by terrain
- Charge 6+D6" once per game

Cons:
- T4
- No EW
- 6+ Armor
- 5+ invuln
- 45 points per model

Flesh Hounds
Pros:
- 12" movement
- Fleet
- Move through Cover
- 2 wounds
- Scout
- 4+ Deny the Witch
- Furious Charge
- 16 points per model

Cons:
- T4
- No EW
- 6+ Armor
- 5+ invuln

Its really up in the air. If the Bloodcrushers are FAQ'd to have a 4+ or 3+ armor save, or even T5, they would be better. However, You can have 3 dogs for slightly more than 1 Crusher. They both die with equal ease, but Crushers have an additional attack, +1S, Hammer of Wrath, Fleet (which helps even without the Banner of Blood), and are AP3. One would think they are better at killing MEQs... but since they are only I4, they hit at the same time, leaving the Crushers wide open to... well, anything.