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 Frazzled wrote:
If a person is half "white"

I don't think this is primarily a question genealogy.

 CuddlySquig wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

 Manchu wrote:

 CuddlySquig wrote:
white people will feel like people are asking them to feel ashamed of who they are

Well, the wristband is supposed to make them keep in mind how lucky they are to be white. So if anything, the opposite concern is more relevant.

Interesting that no one has replied to my queries yet. If a person is half "white" do they have to wear one too? Does President Obama have to wear one?

As a half-white I'd only wear it if it made me eligible for something good. Otherwise I'd go "hell no."

So it is a badge of discrimination then...

So if some chick comes in with this its good, but if she wears a white power Tshirt is that good too?

 Alfndrate wrote:


Yes whites are privileged, we've conned our way into ruling over people for a few hundred years (all the years?), and because of it, we're kind of trying to make it up to EVERYONE by reminding ourselves of people who aren't us that did terrible things in the past.

If by Conned you mean Conquored, yeah.

I think things would be best if we stopped treating Race as if it was an issue. There is only 1 race, human. When people stop putting labels on each other based on the color of their skin, thats when there will be true equality on this subject.



As for the OP, well we have Black History month. If we insist on having this time of celebration for a portion of society can we have a White History month? And an Asian History month, and a Hispanic History month, and a Native American History month...

 CuddlySquig wrote:
If you read the comments in some postings of this story, people are outraged because the message they get is "you are white therefore you are automatically successful and don't have to work for what you have. Lucky you."

No, the message is being white is an advantage in the United States. White people can certainly face other disadvantages, such as poverty, but race will never really be one of them.

I would challange that.

A white person doesn't have access to as many scholarships as a black person of the same economic class.

Thats an instance where Race is a disadvantage/advantage depending on what it is.

 Manchu wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
If a person is half "white"

I don't think this is primarily a question genealogy.

So what is it then?

So women have been oppressed in the past. I know this because my wife tells me this, and as she is holding a large skillet, I am sure she is correct. But if she's white does she wear one?

What if someone is white, but just arrived in this country?

What is someone is black, but have white skin?

What if someone is white, but were raised by black people?

What if someone were neanderthal but was raised by proto wiener dogs? Er...you didn't read that. look over there!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Manchu wrote:

 CuddlySquig wrote:
If you read the comments in some postings of this story, people are outraged because the message they get is "you are white therefore you are automatically successful and don't have to work for what you have. Lucky you."

No, the message is being white is an advantage in the United States. White people can certainly face other disadvantages, such as poverty, but race will never really be one of them.

Live in ing East L.A. and say that pinche gringo.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:


Yes whites are privileged, we've conned our way into ruling over people for a few hundred years (all the years?), and because of it, we're kind of trying to make it up to EVERYONE by reminding ourselves of people who aren't us that did terrible things in the past.

If by Conned you mean Conquored, yeah.

I think things would be best if we stopped treating Race as if it was an issue. There is only 1 race, human. When people stop putting labels on each other based on the color of their skin, thats when there will be true equality on this subject.



As for the OP, well we have Black History month. If we insist on having this time of celebration for a portion of society can we have a White History month? And an Asian History month, and a Hispanic History month, and a Native American History month...

Well yes, it depended on who or what we were conquering lol. Some peoples didn't have the same concepts of ownership, rule, etc... as White Europeans did...

As Eddie Izzard says, "you can't have that, you haven't got a flag." when talking about British Imperialism...

Frazzled, have you ever heard of the phrase 'I'm not even going to dignify that with a response'?

I'd start from there.

whembly wrote:I've been participating in these debates all my life

But have you learned anything along the way?

whembly wrote:I've not once seen/heard of the abject racism that folks experienced prior to the 1970s.

Just go read some YouTube comments or sign on to Xbox Live.

whembly wrote:I feel like we're foisted to carry a burden (shame/guilt) for acts/crimes that our forefather did... just how I feel.

You have a point, though a touchy one... think of it this way (sorry in advance for this): what should the expectation be of an affluent German family, whose wealth came directly from robbing the homes of WWII-era Jews? I know it's a hyperbolic example, but in prionciple it's not much different. Your way of life, at least indirectly, came about on the backs of absolutely brutal racism that was scarcely seen elsewhere in the modern era; the cultural trappings and beliefs of which were still encouraged and endorsed as late as your father's generation (I'm giving the vast majority of Gen-X'ers the benefit of the doubt here).

There should be no reasonable expectation for children to pay for the crimes of the father; but that doesn't mean the child cannot acknowledge and be aware that crimes were committed. That's all that Steinem is trying to convey; to critically analyze the social hierarchy, which of course begins with the recognization that there is a social hierarchy.

 Alfndrate wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:


Yes whites are privileged, we've conned our way into ruling over people for a few hundred years (all the years?), and because of it, we're kind of trying to make it up to EVERYONE by reminding ourselves of people who aren't us that did terrible things in the past.

If by Conned you mean Conquored, yeah.

I think things would be best if we stopped treating Race as if it was an issue. There is only 1 race, human. When people stop putting labels on each other based on the color of their skin, thats when there will be true equality on this subject.



As for the OP, well we have Black History month. If we insist on having this time of celebration for a portion of society can we have a White History month? And an Asian History month, and a Hispanic History month, and a Native American History month...

Well yes, it depended on who or what we were conquering lol. Some peoples didn't have the same concepts of ownership, rule, etc... as White Europeans did...

As Eddie Izzard says, "you can't have that, you haven't got a flag." when talking about British Imperialism...

Technically my people didn't conquer anything, unless you count the French and German parts, which conquered each other so er is that win win or lose lose?

 Grey Templar wrote:
I would challange that.

A white person doesn't have access to as many scholarships as a black person of the same economic class.

Thats an instance where Race is a disadvantage/advantage depending on what it is.

What scholarships are limited to black people?

 dogma wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
I would challange that.

A white person doesn't have access to as many scholarships as a black person of the same economic class.

Thats an instance where Race is a disadvantage/advantage depending on what it is.

What scholarships are limited to black people?

No where near near as many as Ivy League Legacies?

 Alfndrate wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:


Yes whites are privileged, we've conned our way into ruling over people for a few hundred years (all the years?), and because of it, we're kind of trying to make it up to EVERYONE by reminding ourselves of people who aren't us that did terrible things in the past.

If by Conned you mean Conquored, yeah.

I think things would be best if we stopped treating Race as if it was an issue. There is only 1 race, human. When people stop putting labels on each other based on the color of their skin, thats when there will be true equality on this subject.



As for the OP, well we have Black History month. If we insist on having this time of celebration for a portion of society can we have a White History month? And an Asian History month, and a Hispanic History month, and a Native American History month...

Well yes, it depended on who or what we were conquering lol. Some peoples didn't have the same concepts of ownership, rule, etc... as White Europeans did...

As Eddie Izzard says, "you can't have that, you haven't got a flag." when talking about British Imperialism...

The concept of ownership is one major thing to consider.


If the people we, by our definitions, took the land from didn't have a concept of ownership can it really be called Theft?

The descendents of those people wouldn't think it was theft if we hadn't taught them what ownership and theft were.

Ultimatly, I think its rather silly for the descendents of the various Indian tribes to be getting land back to build casinos. Its akin to theft in its own right IMO. Unless you are going to live on the land like your ancestors did sod off! We don't want some filthy casino in the middle of our town.



I refuse to take responsibility for what some ancestor of mine did or might have done, I only take responsibility for what I do.

 Albatross wrote:
Frazzled, have you ever heard of the phrase 'I'm not even going to dignify that with a response'?

I'd start from there.

Because you can't can you.

Obama is half "white." Should he wear one?
White hispanics were typiocally privileged over darker skinned hispanics. Should they wear one?
White Irish dealt with such fun as "no dogs or Irish permitted" Should they wear one?
Cajuns were oppressed by the British, then the Americans. Their language and culture were supressed. Should they wear one? (if it aint gator hide, their not going to wear it)
Cuban emigres in the 50s were typically extremely wealthy. Should they have to wear one?
While we're at it, define white? define black? Is someone from with a Vietnamese mother and Irish father white? What if the father is from Egypt?


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 LordofHats wrote:

 dogma wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
I would challange that.

A white person doesn't have access to as many scholarships as a black person of the same economic class.

Thats an instance where Race is a disadvantage/advantage depending on what it is.

What scholarships are limited to black people?

No where near near as many as Ivy League Legacies?

I didn't get those.

 dogma wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
I would challange that.

A white person doesn't have access to as many scholarships as a black person of the same economic class.

Thats an instance where Race is a disadvantage/advantage depending on what it is.

What scholarships are limited to black people?

I'd rattle off a bunch of scolarships, but they are local ones you'd never have heard of.

The point is, there are things I am specifically disqualified from getting because I am not an underpriviledged minority.

Meanwhile, there is nothing I can get specifically because of the same deal.


If there was a scholarship that had "You must be white" as a qualifier, there would be riots in the streets.

But the same thing for another skin color is perfectly kosher.

 Grey Templar wrote:
I refuse to take responsibility for what some ancestor of mine did or might have done, I only take responsibility for what I do.

I agree, this is the main reason why I think these wristbands are stupid. You're guilting people into feeling bad for things their ancestors did.

 Alfndrate wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
I refuse to take responsibility for what some ancestor of mine did or might have done, I only take responsibility for what I do.

I agree, this is the main reason why I think these wristbands are stupid. You're guilting people into feeling bad for things their ancestors did.

On the positive anyone who puts one on should feel bad. They should feel bad not because they're "white" but because their parents made a stupid baby.

Yup, stupidity all around.

"You, quit whining"

"And you, stop with the guilt"

Alfndrate wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
I refuse to take responsibility for what some ancestor of mine did or might have done, I only take responsibility for what I do.

I agree, this is the main reason why I think these wristbands are stupid. You're guilting people into feeling bad for things their ancestors did.

I'll repeat:

There should be no reasonable expectation for children to pay for the crimes of the father; but that doesn't mean the child cannot acknowledge and be aware that crimes were committed. That's all that Steinem is trying to convey; to critically analyze the social hierarchy, which of course begins with the recognization that there is a social hierarchy.

 Grey Templar wrote:
I would challange that.

A white person doesn't have access to as many scholarships as a black person of the same economic class.

Thats an instance where Race is a disadvantage/advantage depending on what it is.

Affirmative action is an attempt to counter white privilege. There are two kinds of segregation: de jure and de facto. De jure is pretty well not allowed. De facto, however, happens all the time. One of the mechanisms by which it occurs is white privilege. One example is university admission and paying tuition. Affirmative action is designed to allow for integration over and against white privilege.

When is it appropriate to just shout out "shut up and get a job you lazy hippies!" ?

Frazzled wrote:When is it appropriate to just shout out "shut up and get a job you lazy hippies!" ?

All the time; immediately after determining that they are, in fact, hippies.

 Grey Templar wrote:
I refuse to take responsibility for what some ancestor of mine did or might have done, I only take responsibility for what I do.

White privilege is not about feeling guilty over slavery. It's about the fact that being white in America TODAY is an advantage.

 azazel the cat wrote:

Frazzled wrote:When is it appropriate to just shout out "shut up and get a job you lazy hippies!" ?

All the time; immediately after determining that they are, in fact, hippies.

We could replace hippies with bums to make it acceptable in any situation.

 Frazzled wrote:
When is it appropriate to just shout out "shut up and get a job you lazy hippies!" ?

When you are alone in your nursing home room with the Fox News cranked up so high even your deaf neighbor can hear it.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 azazel the cat wrote:

Frazzled wrote:When is it appropriate to just shout out "shut up and get a job you lazy hippies!" ?

All the time; immediately after determining that they are, in fact, hippies.

We could replace hippies with bums to make it acceptable in any situation.

This is true.

 Manchu wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
I refuse to take responsibility for what some ancestor of mine did or might have done, I only take responsibility for what I do.

White privilege is not about feeling guilty over slavery. It's about the fact that being white in America TODAY is an advantage.

I get that there is an advantage, and there are programs to make an equal playing field... I'm trying to find the advantage in my life though :-\ My life isn't great, but my life could be a whole hell of a lot worse (and almost is).

Is my advantage that my life isn't a whole hell of a lot worse yet? I'm being serious with this, I'm looking for the advantage in my life, but I realize that there is a white advantage as a whole.

All hippies are bums but not all bums are hippies

 Manchu wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
I refuse to take responsibility for what some ancestor of mine did or might have done, I only take responsibility for what I do.

White privilege is not about feeling guilty over slavery. It's about the fact that being white in America TODAY is an advantage.

So what advantage is that again?

I remember my sociology Proff saying "There is no thing as race, it is just a perception of various genetic traits that tp prescribe meaning to." While he is sortof right, i think he is wrong, there is race and it does have meaning the prescribe meaning to. Race has a clear consequence on our world. And with that race also creates culture based around it. Those cultures then create various ideals based around it, like hard work, or maybe an idea of heteronormitivity.
What i wonder is possibly, could the culture based around race possibly lead to differences in the way that those who are in it. I remember black students, and friends who succeded in life(very nicely) who said they where shunned by the black community because they became "White washed." So could the idea that leaving your culture makes you an outcast lead you too stay in it?