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 Alfndrate wrote:

 Manchu wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
I refuse to take responsibility for what some ancestor of mine did or might have done, I only take responsibility for what I do.

White privilege is not about feeling guilty over slavery. It's about the fact that being white in America TODAY is an advantage.

I get that there is an advantage, and there are programs to make an equal playing field... I'm trying to find the advantage in my life though :-\ My life isn't great, but my life could be a whole hell of a lot worse (and almost is).

Me too. Still waiting for that advantage to kick in. Meanwhile, I'll just work hard in school and try to get a decent job.

Grey Templar wrote:

 azazel the cat wrote:

Frazzled wrote:When is it appropriate to just shout out "shut up and get a job you lazy hippies!" ?

All the time; immediately after determining that they are, in fact, hippies.

We could replace hippies with bums to make it acceptable in any situation.

No, and I find that attitude loathesome.

Hippies have made the conscious choice to become a burden on the social safety net; expecting to reap the benefits of society whilst actively choosing not to contribute anything remotely useful. "bums", on the other hand, are just those who were failed by the social safefty net. There is some overlap, but while all hippies are bums, not all bums are hippies.

 Alfndrate wrote:
I'm trying to find the advantage in my life though [...] Is my advantage that my life isn't a whole hell of a lot worse yet? I'm being serious with this, I'm looking for the advantage in my life, but I realize that there is a white advantage as a whole.

Having one advantage, such as race, does not mean you don't face any disadvantages.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Me too. Still waiting for that advantage to kick in. Meanwhile, I'll just work hard in school and try to get a decent job.

Thankfully, race will never hold you back in those endeavors.

Way ahead of you on all hippies are bums but not all bums are hippies


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Manchu wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:
I'm trying to find the advantage in my life though [...] Is my advantage that my life isn't a whole hell of a lot worse yet? I'm being serious with this, I'm looking for the advantage in my life, but I realize that there is a white advantage as a whole.

Having one advantage, such as race, does not mean you don't face any disadvantages.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Me too. Still waiting for that advantage to kick in. Meanwhile, I'll just work hard in school and try to get a decent job.

Thankfully, race will never hold you back in those endeavors.

Could you maybe give an example of someone that worked hard, did well in school, and was specifically held back because of his race when everything else was equal? That wasn't done illegally.

Also, It is clearly the cholestoral from all the cheese that is causing this.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Also, It is clearly the cholestoral from all the cheese that is causing this.

They should start eating California cheese.

 Manchu wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:
I'm trying to find the advantage in my life though [...] Is my advantage that my life isn't a whole hell of a lot worse yet? I'm being serious with this, I'm looking for the advantage in my life, but I realize that there is a white advantage as a whole.

Having one advantage, such as race, does not mean you don't face any disadvantages.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Me too. Still waiting for that advantage to kick in. Meanwhile, I'll just work hard in school and try to get a decent job.

Thankfully, race will never hold you back in those endeavors.

I know, but nothing I've gotten in life has been related to race, everything has been due to my own hard work or lack thereof.

My schooling was due to where I lived/attended church. Grade school was a private catholic school that accepted public school vouchers, you just had to be a family that attended the church and was an active member of the parish. I was accepted into private Catholic high school due to my grades and my proficiency test scores, Sophomore through Senior years I had to attend public high school because we couldn't afford private school anymore, and I paid out the wazoo for college because my grades were good enough to get me into college with a decent scholarship, but no where near as close to the aid some students were receiving. And my family has been low-mid income my entire life...

Grey Templar wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:

 Manchu wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
I refuse to take responsibility for what some ancestor of mine did or might have done, I only take responsibility for what I do.

White privilege is not about feeling guilty over slavery. It's about the fact that being white in America TODAY is an advantage.

I get that there is an advantage, and there are programs to make an equal playing field... I'm trying to find the advantage in my life though :-\ My life isn't great, but my life could be a whole hell of a lot worse (and almost is).

Me too. Still waiting for that advantage to kick in. Meanwhile, I'll just work hard in school and try to get a decent job.

How often have you been pulled over by the police for 'driving while being white'?

No? Then I think some of that advantage has already kicked in.

Let me give you a more concrete (though anecdotal, I hope) example:

Last summer I flew from Bellingham, WA to San Diego, CA and back. I loathe giving airlines any more money than I absolutely have to, so I ended up taking 6 planes for the entire trip (including a flight from Seattle, WA to Bellingham, WA via Portland, OR. Look that up on a map to truly understand the level of dumb that represented). On three of those planes (very small, 30ish-passenger types) there would be only a handful of black people (a single family of three on one stretch). Every single time, without fail, ONLY the black people would be "randomly selected" for additional security screening by the TSA.

 azazel the cat wrote:

whembly wrote:I've been participating in these debates all my life

But have you learned anything along the way?

Of course... this is still a touchy subject matter and debating it only sharpens the arguments.

whembly wrote:I've not once seen/heard of the abject racism that folks experienced prior to the 1970s.

Just go read some YouTube comments or sign on to Xbox Live.

I have and know about those...those ain't nothing like the institutional racism seen prior to the '70s. Many of my friends are black and I've met their grandparents. It's kinda odd, but they were very receptive of describing my what's it is like... and what's experienced now is nothing like what they had to live through.

YouTube/Xbox/Interweb... attracts donkey-caves waaaay too easily because of the anonymty.

whembly wrote:I feel like we're foisted to carry a burden (shame/guilt) for acts/crimes that our forefather did... just how I feel.

You have a point, though a touchy one... think of it this way (sorry in advance for this): what should the expectation be of an affluent German family, whose wealth came directly from robbing the homes of WWII-era Jews? I know it's a hyperbolic example, but in prionciple it's not much different. Your way of life, at least indirectly, came about on the backs of absolutely brutal racism that was scarcely seen elsewhere in the modern era; the cultural trappings and beliefs of which were still encouraged and endorsed as late as your father's generation (I'm giving the vast majority of Gen-X'ers the benefit of the doubt here).

There should be no reasonable expectation for children to pay for the crimes of the father; but that doesn't mean the child cannot acknowledge and be aware that crimes were committed. That's all that Steinem is trying to convey; to critically analyze the social hierarchy, which of course begins with the recognization that there is a social hierarchy.

Sure... there's a point in that and initally AA was needed to rectify that. But, when is it enough? Will it ever be enough? When can we have a realistic discussion on this?

Can't really accept anecdotal evidence, but yeah, thats wrong.

 Manchu wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
I refuse to take responsibility for what some ancestor of mine did or might have done, I only take responsibility for what I do.

White privilege is not about feeling guilty over slavery. It's about the fact that being white in America TODAY is an advantage.

I simply disagree with the premise that "White Privilege" is rampant.

Same how I feel about "Male Privilege".

Alfndrate wrote:I know, but nothing I've gotten in life has been related to race, everything has been due to my own hard work or lack thereof.

But has anything been denied to you as a result? Because I suspect that, even objectively observed, many black folks could honestly claim that's an experience they've had.

 azazel the cat wrote:
How often have you been pulled over by the police for 'driving while being white'?

No, but my car was pulled over because it looked out of place with the rich affluent neighborhood I was driving through to a friend's birthday party...




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 azazel the cat wrote:

Alfndrate wrote:I know, but nothing I've gotten in life has been related to race, everything has been due to my own hard work or lack thereof.

But has anything been denied to you as a result? Because I suspect that, even objectively observed, many black folks could honestly claim that's an experience they've had.

I have missed out on two scholarships in high school because they went to a black student who was on par with me or worse.

 Alfndrate wrote:
I know, but nothing I've gotten in life has been related to race everything has been due to my own hard work or lack thereof.

What I see, in your abridged autobiography comes down what they call a first world problem. You're saying you should have paid less for college -- and that every other good thing you've ever experienced has been because of "hard work." How about your parents? Your teachers? Your neighbors? Did you work for all of them to be positive influences in your life? Or present in the first place? You say you are looking for white privilege; I say you ought to take a closer look.

whembly wrote:

 azazel the cat wrote:

There should be no reasonable expectation for children to pay for the crimes of the father; but that doesn't mean the child cannot acknowledge and be aware that crimes were committed. That's all that Steinem is trying to convey; to critically analyze the social hierarchy, which of course begins with the recognization that there is a social hierarchy.

When can we have a realistic discussion on this?

Exactly what part about this isn't "realistic"?

 Manchu wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:
I know, but nothing I've gotten in life has been related to race, everything has been due to my own hard work or lack thereof.

What I see, in your abridged autobiography comes down what they call a first world problem. You're saying you should have paid less for college -- and that every other good thing you've ever experienced has been because of "hard work." How about your parents? Your teachers? Your neighbors? Did you work for all of them to be positive influences in your life? Or present in the first place? You say you are looking for white privilege; I say you out to take a closer look.

Like I said, was my white advantage that my life could be a whole hell of a lot worse than what it is?

So having a good family life is white priviledge?

Thats equvilant to saying that if you arn't white your family life sucks.

There are plenty of white families, more than there are of other colors, that have drug problems, abusive parents, divorce, etc...

 Manchu wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
When is it appropriate to just shout out "shut up and get a job you lazy hippies!" ?

When you are alone in your nursing home room with the Fox News cranked up so high even your deaf neighbor can hear it.

Too late Manchu, you are far too late.

 Alfndrate wrote:
Like I said, was my white advantage that my life could be a whole hell of a lot worse than what it is?

What exactly is your angle here? Are you trying to claim that the numerous advantages that you have enjoyed and disadvantages that you have avoided are minimal? I see your very question as an expression of white privilege -- it's like you're saying, hey I grew up in a nice neighborhood with parents who cared about me, I went to good schools with committed teachers, I had the support to do well and I got into college -- now why do I have to pay so much?

 Grey Templar wrote:
All hippies are bums but not all bums are hippies

You're good. You're real good. I think we have an addition to the Cedar Park AntiZombie and Hippy Brigade.

 Manchu wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:
Like I said, was my white advantage that my life could be a whole hell of a lot worse than what it is?

What exactly is your angle here? Are you trying to claim that the numerous advantages that you have enjoyed and disadvantages that you have avoided are minimal? I see your very question as an expression of white privilege -- it's like you're saying, hey I grew up in a nice neighborhood with parents who cared about me, I went to good schools with committed teachers, I had the support to do well and I got into college -- now why do I have to pay so much?

You say that like the only way you could ever have those is because you are white, that itself is racist.

 Grey Templar wrote:
So having a good family life is white priviledge?

Thats equvilant to saying that if you arn't white your family life sucks.

No, it's equivalent to saying that black people are much more likely than white people not to have one or both parents.

Alfndrate wrote:I have missed out on two scholarships in high school because they went to a black student who was on par with me or worse.

For levity:

I missed out on one scholarship because on the day of the interview, I had mine immediately after a girl whom was enthusiastically communicating to her father via American Sign Language. I knew then that I wasn't going to get the scholarship. During my panel interview, when asked what I felt set me apart from the other candidates, I responded with "Well, I heard your question." I stood up, thanked the panel, and left.

I was named the runner-up for the scholarship.

 Grey Templar wrote:
You say that like the only way you could ever have those is because you are white, that itself is racist.

Once again, no. What I am saying is that white people are far more likely than black people to enjoy all of those advantages.

 azazel the cat wrote:

How often have you been pulled over by the police for 'driving while being white'?

No? Then I think some of that advantage has already kicked in.

Okay... I'll bite. "Me". Granted, I was driving through a bad neighborhood.

See what happened there? They were profiling....

Let me give you a more concrete (though anecdotal, I hope) example:

Last summer I flew from Bellingham, WA to San Diego, CA and back. I loathe giving airlines any more money than I absolutely have to, so I ended up taking 6 planes for the entire trip (including a flight from Seattle, WA to Bellingham, WA via Portland, OR. Look that up on a map to truly understand the level of dumb that represented). On three of those planes (very small, 30ish-passenger types) there would be only a handful of black people (a single family of three on one stretch). Every single time, without fail, ONLY the black people would be "randomly selected" for additional security screening by the TSA.

While that does seem awful, I can give anecdotal evidence where only the old were "randomly" selected. I swear, there much be a calendar somewhere that tells the TSA, only search for "X profiles".

Also, three of my black friends (friends... I don't think of them as "black", but trying to drive home a point here) and I had the same grades and we're all into sports. However, none of us were good enough to get any sport scholarships. Our parents were just the run-of-the-mill middle class families.

All three of them got grants/scholarships because of their minority status...and I got zip (I didn't qualify for any hardships because my parents made too much money, but they couldn't afford to help). I don't begrudge them because I'm like "take whatever fricking advantage as you can dude".

So... I think we're reading too much into this "privilege" thing here and ignoring that people are donkey-caves.

 Grey Templar wrote:

I'd rattle off a bunch of scolarships, but they are local ones you'd never have heard of.

I have Google.

 Grey Templar wrote:

If there was a scholarship that had "You must be white" as a qualifier, there would be riots in the streets.

What scholarship requires the applicant to be of a particular ethnicity?

 azazel the cat wrote:

whembly wrote:

 azazel the cat wrote:

There should be no reasonable expectation for children to pay for the crimes of the father; but that doesn't mean the child cannot acknowledge and be aware that crimes were committed. That's all that Steinem is trying to convey; to critically analyze the social hierarchy, which of course begins with the recognization that there is a social hierarchy.

When can we have a realistic discussion on this?

Exactly what part about this isn't "realistic"?

True...wasn't criticizing you...sorry.

People being donkey-caves doesn't explain how so many indicators of prosperity are divided along racial lines.

 azazel the cat wrote:

Alfndrate wrote:I have missed out on two scholarships in high school because they went to a black student who was on par with me or worse.

For levity:

I missed out on one scholarship because on the day of the interview, I had mine immediately after a girl whom was enthusiastically communicating to her father via American Sign Language. I knew then that I wasn't going to get the scholarship. During my panel interview, when asked what I felt set me apart from the other candidates, I responded with "Well, I heard your question." I stood up, thanked the panel, and left.

I was named the runner-up for the scholarship.

Heh... that's awesome man.

 azazel the cat wrote:

Alfndrate wrote:I have missed out on two scholarships in high school because they went to a black student who was on par with me or worse.

For levity:

I missed out on one scholarship because on the day of the interview, I had mine immediately after a girl whom was enthusiastically communicating to her father via American Sign Language. I knew then that I wasn't going to get the scholarship. During my panel interview, when asked what I felt set me apart from the other candidates, I responded with "Well, I heard your question." I stood up, thanked the panel, and left.

I was named the runner-up for the scholarship.

Hah! Take an exalt for that!