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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/13 22:43:42
Subject: Tau Special Forces? (a.k.a TOKUSENTAI! TOKUSENTAI!)
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Storm Trooper with Maglight
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Do the Tau have anything like Special Forces? I'm struggling to find anything from online sources about the Tau utilising the concept apart from fan-made fluff.
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The Kasrkin were just men. It made their actions all the more astonishing. Six white blurs, they fell upon the cultists, lasguns barking at close range. They wasted no shots. One shot, one kill. - Eisenhorn: Malleus |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/13 22:52:38
Subject: Tau Special Forces? (a.k.a TOKUSENTAI! TOKUSENTAI!)
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Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter
Seattle
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Isn't that the purpose of the Stealth Suits?
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It is best to be a pessimist. You are usually right and, when you're wrong, you're pleasantly surprised. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/13 23:05:35
Subject: Tau Special Forces? (a.k.a TOKUSENTAI! TOKUSENTAI!)
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Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control
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Stealth suits. They go deep behind enemy lines, cut off supply lines, disrupt the troop movement and kill off the commanders.
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The universe has many horrors yet to throw at us. This is not the end of our struggle. This is just the beginning of our crusade to save Humanity. Be faithful! Be strong! Be vigilant!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/13 23:42:52
Subject: Tau Special Forces? (a.k.a TOKUSENTAI! TOKUSENTAI!)
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Fireknife Shas'el
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Stealth suits and I think Pathfinders. Pathfinders do the same thing that Stealth suits do without a battlesuit or heavy weaponry.
Then you also have Honorguard that protect Ethereals.
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I'm expecting an Imperial Knights supplement dedicated to GW's loyalist apologetics. Codex: White Knights "In the grim dark future, everything is fine."
"The argument is that we have to do this or we will, bit by bit,
lose everything that we hold dear, everything that keeps the business going. Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky."
-Tom Kirby |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/14 00:20:36
Subject: Tau Special Forces? (a.k.a TOKUSENTAI! TOKUSENTAI!)
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Stealth Suits, Pathfinders
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My Armies:
5,500pts
2,700pts
2,000pts
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/14 01:15:54
Subject: Tau Special Forces? (a.k.a TOKUSENTAI! TOKUSENTAI!)
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Rough Rider with Boomstick
Guelph Ontario
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Recoome as a Tau?
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Think of something clever to say. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/14 03:33:55
Subject: Re:Tau Special Forces? (a.k.a TOKUSENTAI! TOKUSENTAI!)
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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I have always considered the pathfinders as the closest thing the Tau field to a spec forces team, with rail rifles, and markerlights, they are sort of a force recon, scout sniper team, I made a "Oracle" team for my Tau sept, to reflect a elite pathfinder element.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/14 03:40:16
Subject: Re:Tau Special Forces? (a.k.a TOKUSENTAI! TOKUSENTAI!)
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Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw
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Stealthsuits are essentially commandos and Pathfinders are recon. None of the 40k armies have particularly developed special forces though.
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Read my story at:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/515293.page#5420356
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/14 19:18:36
Subject: Tau Special Forces? (a.k.a TOKUSENTAI! TOKUSENTAI!)
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Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter
Seattle
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I think that would really depend on what sort of Special Operations Group role you expect those troops to fill. Especially considering that some armies on the table-top are really nothing but Special Operations Groups.
If you mean the sort of SOG that assassinates key enemy personnel, the Imperium has all sorts of Assassin Temples for that, probably most notably the Vindicare.
If you mean the sort of SOG that is a rapid-reaction/response force meant to crack tough nuts and establish a beach-head for force-multiplier elements and standard infantry, that's the Space Marines, of just about any flavor.
If you mean the sort of SOG that engages in psychological warfare, that's the Ecclesiarchy, or Water Caste diplomats, or Genestealer Cults.
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It is best to be a pessimist. You are usually right and, when you're wrong, you're pleasantly surprised. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/14 19:57:43
Subject: Tau Special Forces? (a.k.a TOKUSENTAI! TOKUSENTAI!)
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Fireknife Shas'el
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There are a lot of commando like troops. For tau I would also include a crisis team because they are rapid response nut crackers.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/14 20:18:51
Subject: Re:Tau Special Forces? (a.k.a TOKUSENTAI! TOKUSENTAI!)
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Sneaky Striking Scorpion
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Hollywood pretty much destroys anything it touches. In this case, the average person's understanding of how a military operates. I have a suspicion that when most people think "Special Forces" they think of Rambo or some other iconic Hollywood action hero. In today's generation they may also think of Solid Snake from Metal gear Solid, or some other suitably badass super solider in gaming history.
But the truth is... no such persons exist in the real world.
I won't go into unnecessary detail, but the basic principle is this. If you are in the military, and you and your mission requires a specific skillset or specialized training, than you are special forces. That's a generalization and there are details that I am not going to ramble on about, but that's the basic idea.
In game terms, If you are a Fire Warrior than you are a typical soldier. If you are anything else, you perform a role unique to your rank/training/skills/equipment and are special forces.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/14 22:18:02
Subject: Re:Tau Special Forces? (a.k.a TOKUSENTAI! TOKUSENTAI!)
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1st Lieutenant
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA
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En Excelsis wrote:Hollywood pretty much destroys anything it touches. In this case, the average person's understanding of how a military operates. I have a suspicion that when most people think "Special Forces" they think of Rambo or some other iconic Hollywood action hero. In today's generation they may also think of Solid Snake from Metal gear Solid, or some other suitably badass super solider in gaming history.
But the truth is... no such persons exist in the real world.
I won't go into unnecessary detail, but the basic principle is this. If you are in the military, and you and your mission requires a specific skillset or specialized training, than you are special forces. That's a generalization and there are details that I am not going to ramble on about, but that's the basic idea.
In game terms, If you are a Fire Warrior than you are a typical soldier. If you are anything else, you perform a role unique to your rank/training/skills/equipment and are special forces.
This is pretty much true for game terms. Since 40k doesn't represent ALL facets of a military, and we only see combat elements, most everything that isn't a basic troops choice (or in some cases, Heavy Support/Fast Attack depending on your army) could be considered Special Forces. In real life, the line is a bit more vague since there are a ton of different specialties in the US military alone and most require "specific skill-sets or specialized training" but aren't Special Force the whole SF thing doesn't truly exist outside of designated " SF" units like the Green Berets or their foreign equivalents.
However, in the case of the Tau and 40k terms, if you aren't a Fire-Warrior you are "Special Forces". This means path-finders, stealth suits, Crisis Suits (these guys are supposed to be the best of the fire caste), and even Kroot to an extent
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/14 23:10:05
Subject: Re:Tau Special Forces? (a.k.a TOKUSENTAI! TOKUSENTAI!)
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Been Around the Block
St Custards
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En Excelsis wrote:Hollywood pretty much destroys anything it touches. In this case, the average person's understanding of how a military operates. I have a suspicion that when most people think "Special Forces" they think of Rambo or some other iconic Hollywood action hero. In today's generation they may also think of Solid Snake from Metal gear Solid, or some other suitably badass super solider in gaming history.
But the truth is... no such persons exist in the real world.
True, but no one wants to see a two hour film about the Royal Logistics Corp performing its incredibly important role in keeping things moving.
"Quick! To the cookhouse!"
"Dammit, I don't care how many pallets of field dressings there are, we've got ten hours to load them onto these trucks and the clock's ticking!"
"Everyone's depending on us, Sarge, these latrines won't dig themselves."
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"hullo clouds, hullo sky" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/14 23:17:57
Subject: Re:Tau Special Forces? (a.k.a TOKUSENTAI! TOKUSENTAI!)
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Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw
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Fotherington-Thomas wrote:En Excelsis wrote:Hollywood pretty much destroys anything it touches. In this case, the average person's understanding of how a military operates. I have a suspicion that when most people think "Special Forces" they think of Rambo or some other iconic Hollywood action hero. In today's generation they may also think of Solid Snake from Metal gear Solid, or some other suitably badass super solider in gaming history.
But the truth is... no such persons exist in the real world.
True, but no one wants to see a two hour film about the Royal Logistics Corp performing its incredibly important role in keeping things moving.
"Quick! To the cookhouse!"
"Dammit, I don't care how many pallets of field dressings there are, we've got ten hours to load them onto these trucks and the clock's ticking!"
"Everyone's depending on us, Sarge, these latrines won't dig themselves."
There are lot of Special Forces units that people have no idea even exist. These units fulfill extremely niche roles such as USAF Pararescue and USN Special Warfare Combatant-craft Crewmen.
Then you have the relatively well known ones such Scout Snipers, Green Berets, Rangers, Delta Force and SEALs, but all of those units fulfill specialized roles and have sub units within them that are further specialized. Military organization and operations are considerably more complex than they are made out to be in Hollywood.
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Read my story at:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/515293.page#5420356
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/14 23:27:22
Subject: Tau Special Forces? (a.k.a TOKUSENTAI! TOKUSENTAI!)
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Been Around the Block
St Custards
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Oh, I know, my cousin's in the Royal Artillery but has nothing to do with the actual loading and firing of the big guns, he's in surveillance and target acquistion (as I understand it, although he broke his leg badly playing football and is currently bored out of his mind at Catterick doing light duties of some sort).
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"hullo clouds, hullo sky" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/14 23:33:23
Subject: Tau Special Forces? (a.k.a TOKUSENTAI! TOKUSENTAI!)
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Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter
Seattle
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Was going to comment that, unless the US Army has changed significantly since I was in it, DFAC (Dining Facilities) was not considered a SOG role... there were units dedicated to logistical support, supply, ordnance (bullet-counters), and similar roles... but none of them were SOG. In some cases, for certain MOS within such forces, they could be tasked to support a SOG field operation (most notably placed ad-hoc into an RSB, or Ranger Support Battalion, for a given period of time, as a temporary duty assignment, or as a permanent unit assignment).
If you were digging a latrine, you were probably an Infantryman (first in the field), an Engineer (digging trenches to run pipes for water and sewage), or similar MOS... but definitely not SOG. Logistics and Supply (the pallets of field dressings) is critical, but, again, not a SOG unit to the US Army, unless part of a RSB or a forward-support element for, say, 1st Special Forces Group or something.
...and, actually, speaking of "Badasses".... uh, yeah, those kinds of soldiers most certainly exist. We call them SEALs, Rangers, or the Special Forces Groups.
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It is best to be a pessimist. You are usually right and, when you're wrong, you're pleasantly surprised. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/15 00:11:10
Subject: Re:Tau Special Forces? (a.k.a TOKUSENTAI! TOKUSENTAI!)
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Storm Trooper with Maglight
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What I had in mind was the SAS/SEALs role of going deep behind enemy lines and fighting unconventionally. I guess Stealthsuits are what I was thinking of, since they've got their whole 'lone hunters' independence thing, while Pathfinders are more conventional. Like Stealthsuits are the Ninjas, Pathfinders are Samurai.
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The Kasrkin were just men. It made their actions all the more astonishing. Six white blurs, they fell upon the cultists, lasguns barking at close range. They wasted no shots. One shot, one kill. - Eisenhorn: Malleus |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/15 01:20:21
Subject: Tau Special Forces? (a.k.a TOKUSENTAI! TOKUSENTAI!)
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Consigned to the Grim Darkness
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I don't see how you got either of those comparisons, Sturmtruppen.
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The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/15 12:21:15
Subject: Re:Tau Special Forces? (a.k.a TOKUSENTAI! TOKUSENTAI!)
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Sneaky Striking Scorpion
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Sturmtruppen wrote:What I had in mind was the SAS/SEALs role of going deep behind enemy lines and fighting unconventionally. I guess Stealthsuits are what I was thinking of, since they've got their whole 'lone hunters' independence thing, while Pathfinders are more conventional. Like Stealthsuits are the Ninjas, Pathfinders are Samurai.
If you are attempting to emulate the application of Ninja or Samurai, than the Tau really have nothing to offer you. The Tau adhere to a much more modern doctrine of war that precludes the use of close combat in favor of increasingly bigger guns. Getting your hands dirty in close combat is "beneath" the Tau, and they prefer to have that role filled by the lesser races in their coalition such as the Kroot.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/15 12:43:26
Subject: Re:Tau Special Forces? (a.k.a TOKUSENTAI! TOKUSENTAI!)
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Spawn of Chaos
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I've always thought of the Tau units like this (when trying to relate to the US military):
Pathfinders = green berrets. When equiptment fails, you rely on the soldiers. And going in deep behind enemy lines, surviving, gathering intel and possibly training up national guerilla forces is what I think the pathfinders are all about.
Stealth Suits = Rangers. Snatch and grabs, killing high value targets, and going in with more guns and equiptment than you need, and use every bit of it messing up something serious.
Crisis Suits = Officers. Kinda think its self explanitory, especially considering thats how I believe the fluff tells it anyways.
Just a thought..
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/15 14:00:27
Subject: Tau Special Forces? (a.k.a TOKUSENTAI! TOKUSENTAI!)
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Purposeful Hammerhead Pilot
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Psienesis wrote:Was going to comment that, unless the US Army has changed significantly since I was in it, DFAC (Dining Facilities) was not considered a SOG role... there were units dedicated to logistical support, supply, ordnance (bullet-counters), and similar roles... but none of them were SOG. In some cases, for certain MOS within such forces, they could be tasked to support a SOG field operation (most notably placed ad-hoc into an RSB, or Ranger Support Battalion, for a given period of time, as a temporary duty assignment, or as a permanent unit assignment).
If you were digging a latrine, you were probably an Infantryman (first in the field), an Engineer (digging trenches to run pipes for water and sewage), or similar MOS... but definitely not SOG. Logistics and Supply (the pallets of field dressings) is critical, but, again, not a SOG unit to the US Army, unless part of a RSB or a forward-support element for, say, 1st Special Forces Group or something.
...and, actually, speaking of "Badasses".... uh, yeah, those kinds of soldiers most certainly exist. We call them SEALs, Rangers, or the Special Forces Groups.
Reinforcing Psienesis point: Very correct even today, just because you fill a specific role doesn't make you Special Forces. That would require a unit being a part of a Special Operations Command, and they fulfill a role in "unconventional warfare" meaning foreign internal defense, special reconnaissance, direct action and counter-terrorism. They also fill over roes outside of the normal operating procedures of typical units and many of their techniques and missions are classified.
In terms of Tau, I would probably go with Stealth Suits fitting the role the best for Special Forces. They have a very particular operating procedure by going behind enemy lines and disrupting and sabotaging as much as possible. I would see that Stealth Suit operations would be only known to the Tau commanders and operate within the Classified realm for Tau. To a certain extent that Pathfinders fill the same role, but I would group them in as a typical scouting role for the Tau Empire, like how are the US military utilize scouts to locate enemy units ahead of the main body.
*edited for spelling errors*
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/15 14:01:48
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/16 19:20:43
Subject: Tau Special Forces? (a.k.a TOKUSENTAI! TOKUSENTAI!)
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Dakka Veteran
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I could consider a Devilfish mounted, well equipped Firewarrior Team operating in certain independent roles and under severe conditions SpecOps. Would I be wrong? Yes, Crisis Teams, Stealth Suits, Pathfinders are all my first answers to the question and likely in that order and yes this is a game and doesnt really reflect these concepts cleanly. And I like the comparrisons to samurai and ninja. To finish the analogy, Firewarriors would be regular footmen/spearmen/archers right? Just plain old Bushi I think the word is?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/17 01:24:38
Subject: Tau Special Forces? (a.k.a TOKUSENTAI! TOKUSENTAI!)
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Fireknife Shas'el
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Some sources paint the fire warrior as more of a generalist who dose every job rather then specing into one job. In that view, there are no special forces, just forces.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/17 07:03:32
Subject: Tau Special Forces? (a.k.a TOKUSENTAI! TOKUSENTAI!)
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Dakka Veteran
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Yes a standard Fire Warrior is your run of the mill general purpose footsoldier. I was refering more to a uniquely skilled, equipped, group of them. As in take 6 to 12 Fire Warrior Crisis Suit operators out of their suits, and deploy them as infantry. They would be SpecOp skill level I'd assume right?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/17 12:31:41
Subject: Tau Special Forces? (a.k.a TOKUSENTAI! TOKUSENTAI!)
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Hallowed Canoness
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They might be "SpecOp skill level" (whatever that means) but they'd still be basically useless.
A Firewarrior who's adapted to a Crisis suit is basically useless out of it. In the novelisation of Firewarrior (Which is actually worth your time, unlike the game) one of the characters is a Crisis Shas'vre. He's worried about the day he's too old to pilot any more and has to retire, since it's not that far off, and he spends time reminiscing about other retired Crisis pilots - including the guy whose mind was so adapted to his suit that he got out of bed one morning and decided to take a short cut by using his jump jets to get to the next building... in his bathrobe.
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"That time I only loaded the cannon with powder. Next time, I will fill it with jewels and diamonds and they will cut you to shrebbons!" - Nogbad the Bad. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/17 13:11:04
Subject: Re:Tau Special Forces? (a.k.a TOKUSENTAI! TOKUSENTAI!)
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Flashy Flashgitz
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Piranha and devilfish seem capable to be escorting certain special forces units. Piranha is light, small and fast though transport is not realy an option. But that is where our favourite fish comes in.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/17 17:17:58
Subject: Tau Special Forces? (a.k.a TOKUSENTAI! TOKUSENTAI!)
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Dakka Veteran
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Oh... well that's a thing...wild...and also hilarious...and sad
That I may just have to choose to ignore. I'm in one of those places where what I liked to envision to complete the image of their culture in MY mind is intruded upon by something published in the fluffs canon that wasn't there before that came from ANOTHER mind. Y'know what I'm talking about? Guess my interpretation is now an alternate universe! Yay!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/17 17:57:33
Subject: Tau Special Forces? (a.k.a TOKUSENTAI! TOKUSENTAI!)
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Hallowed Canoness
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That's your prerogative, KnuckleWolf, but it's a logical conclusion as to the eventual fate of anyone who uses mind-machine interface technology.
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"That time I only loaded the cannon with powder. Next time, I will fill it with jewels and diamonds and they will cut you to shrebbons!" - Nogbad the Bad. |
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