Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

This might have come up already,but i haven't really seen anything on it. As the title suggests its going to be about Beastmen and there effectiveness in 8th edition with all the new books out so far.

I have played a few games already, fighting the new WoC, and Daemons. and i got mauled to death by Pink Horrors, or blocks of warriors.
I also lose to Tomb King chariot lists, Ogre Kingdoms, Empire, VC, etc.
It just seems that there no longer able to be competitive at all any more. I try to build competitive lists, using wargor BsB's, Gorstars, Brayshaman's with lore of death and shadows, but it seems that even with their FAQ there really not good. I have a hard time just keeping my guys alive for a turn haha. I try to be a good sport about it, but in the end i barely end up killing anything, and i get wiped off the board by turn 3-4. This is getting really bothersome, as i enjoy the models, and the play style of the army. A big horde of Savage tribal beastmen raiding towns and cities for the dark gods. but with the book it seems that this goal is out of reach.

all in all, they suck right now. and i hope they get e new book soon, and it better be an improvement to this one.

I haven't played with or against Beastmen, but I love the character, and the playstyle. I should go proxy an ambush list and report it's success or failure.

Either way, what kind of style were you using? I've heard good things about herdstones and chariot lists.

I know how you feel, Beastmen are amongst my favorite armies. Their book is rumoured to be redone late this year, which it needs.

They arent really competitve though, only really good builds are the magic spam, which can be quite effective. And the Minotaur army, which will be tough to take down. The Chariot armies can also be good, chariots are used a lot in 8th, I have seen them used well with Minotaurs and Bestigor.

I have also seen, ans tried using, big blocks of Gor, with one big block of Bestigor and Minotaurs. It actually works well, but ince they get cut down a bit thats it. Also, War Machines are the bane of Beastmen.
Against other armies they just cant really compete, especially against Empire, Daemons, Vampire Counts, and Ogres. The Beastmen will face lots of solid buffed infantry, hordes upon hordes of enemies, or just a few enemies who will smash through everything with ease. Or Daemons which are everything combined and just ridiculous.

Anyway, I know how you feel, its really too bad that they are so bad currently.

You shouldn't be getting "mauled to death" by horrors. They're terrible.

I think from what I've heard from Beastmen and the replays is you need to get your core out of the way and get some Minotaur buses and start stacking up bloodgreed. It's really a unique ability and stuff can get pretty absurd. I think the book is definitely UP, but if you use a few builds, you can scrape out some good victories.

DukeRustfield wrote:
You shouldn't be getting "mauled to death" by horrors. They're terrible.

I think from what I've heard from Beastmen and the replays is you need to get your core out of the way and get some Minotaur buses and start stacking up bloodgreed. It's really a unique ability and stuff can get pretty absurd. I think the book is definitely UP, but if you use a few builds, you can scrape out some good victories.

Yeah the stacking Bloodgreed is definitely a strong way to go. And I could see horrors being a pain in larger numbers, especially of it against Gor or Ungor, probably,shouldnt be getting slaughtered, but thats how Beastmen are currently I suppose.

Beastmen have never been good. A lot of the books just got a lot better(WoC and Oges particularly)
Picking your combats is important. Shadow is still really good to them as is the sig beasts spell. You'll need some luck and skill but stubborn bestigors and re rolling Gors ar still good. You may need more WarMachine hunters and things like that. I still think a horde of minotaurs is gross to combat

Mountain-Breaker wrote:
I know how you feel, Beastmen are amongst my favorite armies. Their book is rumoured to be redone late this year, which it needs.

Where did you you read this? that is the first time I have heard of such an update and I have been keeping up with warseer updates so where did you hear of of this?

Mountain-Breaker wrote:
And I could see horrors being a pain in larger numbers, especially of it against Gor or Ungor, probably,shouldnt be getting slaughtered, but thats how Beastmen are currently I suppose.

Ungors, the most pathetic Beastman unit, beat horrors for cost. Cuz they have basically the same stats, but horrors have a 5+ ward, are unstable, OH, and cost 260% more. Add in the chance for Primal Fury and they wipe the floor with them. The only way Horrors would win is by adding some Heralds or casting spells. In which case they're not losing in a fight and it's not because of the Horrors.

Mountain-Breaker wrote:
I know how you feel, Beastmen are amongst my favorite armies. Their book is rumoured to be redone late this year, which it needs.

They arent really competitve though, only really good builds are the magic spam, which can be quite effective. And the Minotaur army, which will be tough to take down. The Chariot armies can also be good, chariots are used a lot in 8th, I have seen them used well with Minotaurs and Bestigor.

I have also seen, ans tried using, big blocks of Gor, with one big block of Bestigor and Minotaurs. It actually works well, but ince they get cut down a bit thats it. Also, War Machines are the bane of Beastmen.
Against other armies they just cant really compete, especially against Empire, Daemons, Vampire Counts, and Ogres. The Beastmen will face lots of solid buffed infantry, hordes upon hordes of enemies, or just a few enemies who will smash through everything with ease. Or Daemons which are everything combined and just ridiculous.

Anyway, I know how you feel, its really too bad that they are so bad currently.

So many wrong things here. Beastmen were the last book of 7th they are far off from a new book and I thank God for it, I don't want mandatory 10pt command upgrades and a very limited number of magic items, I think we have more magic weapons then most of the new books have entire magic items.

Magic Spam also known as Herdstone lists are very effective, minobus lists are nice too, an 8 point AHW Gor is a bargain at WS4 T4 A2 get 50 of them and add in a Beast Banner BSB and you have a unit that can take a ton of wounds dishing out 40 WS4 S4 with LD10 bubble and LD rerolls it is something like a 95% chance for Hatred they get to test on every round of combat not just the first like with regular hatred.

Another huge bonus is our chaff, 30pt ungor raiders skirmishers that can screen and redirect, 55pt harpies and 55pt razorgor which with their T5 can easily hold up S3 blocks for a couple turns. No other amy IMO has better chaff and that helps to control both the movement phase and deployment with drops, Fantasy is won in the movement phase and with out chaff and M5 there isn't a better army out there.

Warmachines? Maybe I can see if you bring minotaur, anyone running a herdstone list should have Chalice of Dark Rain on one of the shaman. And while they may face buffed infantry, the miasma spam will have them hitting last and on 5s. Before you give up on them check out the Herdstone Forums and read what successful Beast Generals run and how they run it.

I agree with pretty much everything Hargus56 said.

Chariots are not that great because they are kind of slow and the bst army moves really fast for an all infantry army.

You can make a doombull that will just absolutely dominate most infantry units and usually have up to 10 attacks by the end of the game. Unless of course he eats a cannonball.

The bst book has terrible internal balance and there are units that you just should never take (All the rares). But the tools are there to make a competitive list. I can say that I never worry about warmachines because I always have a huge number of models on the board and by turn 2 I am going to be in combat with a lot of units.

I also agree with Hargus56. However I would like to let it be known that outside the Herstone + Horde and the Minobus lists. There really is not that many (if any) other builds that can give you a chance to win consistently.

It is also not just the rares that are over priced. Mino are a tad bit over priced for being T4. If they were T5 I would have no problem with their price. But being the same toughness as a Gor just does not seem right. It also is issues when you get into combats. Quite a bit of units in this game will be hitting and wounding on 3's on these guys. If you do not have a Doombull + a pair of Gorebulls in the front, you will bleed combat res and loose the unit.

Centigors are also over priced, and 2/3 of the time you take them will be useless.

I think that while this book is not as bad as people may think, it does have some glaring issues. Lords, Hero's and Core IMHO are all good. However when you get to Special the only things that I would use in there are Harpies, Razorgors, Razorgor Chariots, Minos and Bestigor. And out of those 5 options 3 are or can be considered Chaff, 1 makes your army a deathstar and the later is about the only solid choice. In Rare there is NOTHING that I would consider useful at this time, everything is just to overpriced.

Lastly is Ambush, how is it that the army who's fluff says that it is the best army in all of Warhammer at setting and running ambushes has a worse ambush rule that the BRB? How is it that no special character can ambush?

Grix.