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 Janthkin wrote:

 calypso2ts wrote:
I also completely agree on Deep Striking the beasts - this is the only reason overall I can see to take a Icon on the Plague Drones.

Only reason? What about dropping the GUO with pin-point accuracy right on top of the enemy deployment zone on turn 2? He's hard to ignore.

Evolution of strategy will be interesting. I think I'm going to have to start playing with a few min-sized Troops choices (of appropriate god) w/Musicians in any list where I expect to Deep Strike - essentially, it gives you 2 chances to make your Reserves roll for the unit you want to arrive.

Whoops! Forgot the GUO - he is another great (economical) candidate for that. Although, I would tend to want to just dump him in terrain and take my risks with his small footprint on a normal DS.

Out of the 4x MC go I think the GUO might be the most interesting when it comes to raw power. A chance for Iron Arm, Endurance, Warp Speed and the ability to cast all 3 is pretty awesome.

I am not sure if min sized troops works well with Daemons - even as a retriever for other units. They still cost 100 points and I would probably want to throw in more bodies so they can actually do something. I think when it comes to holding backfield objectives - allied cultists are the way to go.

For objective holders... I would just buy the portal glyph and have it pop out 1-6 plaguebearers every turn or 1-6 Pink Horrors... that is an average of 1 to 3 units totally 11 deamons... sounds good enough for holding objectives... the only screw is a kill point game and I suppose you could just never deploy it... 30 points for 99 points of troops sounds like a win to me.

 calypso2ts wrote:

 Janthkin wrote:

 calypso2ts wrote:
I also completely agree on Deep Striking the beasts - this is the only reason overall I can see to take a Icon on the Plague Drones.

Only reason? What about dropping the GUO with pin-point accuracy right on top of the enemy deployment zone on turn 2? He's hard to ignore.

Whoops! Forgot the GUO - he is another great (economical) candidate for that. Although, I would tend to want to just dump him in terrain and take my risks with his small footprint on a normal DS.

The appeal of the icon isn't just to make dropping him safer; it's to allow you to place a big nasty guy who can't Run RIGHT next to the enemy. Think of it this way- if you have an expensive model that can scatter, do you place it 1" away from the enemy on a deep strike? Or do you place him further back, to give some cushion? For my part, unless there's a critical reason to risk a mishap, I normally place Deep Strikers 7"-8" away from an enemy unit, to minimize the risk of mishap. Now, with a unit that can run, it's not too big a deal to land a bit away from the enemy. You can Run closer and probably still catch them next turn. But Slow & Purposeful models can't do that; so every inch of safety cushion you build into the DS is an inch further away from the enemy if they decide to move away from the big stinky assault monster. Having a Nurgle icon eliminates the issue and makes it much harder for enemies to just move away, because big papa poop can safely appear 1" away with no risk.

DAaddict wrote:
For objective holders... I would just buy the portal glyph and have it pop out 1-6 plaguebearers every turn or 1-6 Pink Horrors... that is an average of 1 to 3 units totally 11 deamons... sounds good enough for holding objectives... the only screw is a kill point game and I suppose you could just never deploy it...

This is one of the virtues of Daemonic Rewards. If it's Purge the Alien, just don't take the Portalglyph. Take some other cool Exalted Reward.

Just played a game with a Thirster and depending on the gift roll, that guy can be beast. I got 4+ FNP and the Thirster went ape on a Tyranid list. My opponent made the mistake of charging a Flyrant, Tervigon, 2 biovores and some gargoyles at the Thirster. They all got put through the meat grinder. All in all he ate 1000 points and was still alive at the end of the game. Initiative 10 with decapitating blow makes him a monstrous creature slayer.

I imagine jy2 will make good use of his two with all his MC practice.

Battle report completed.

Nice to see a hard core melee filled game. Well done sir.

Great report Jy2! I think DI balanced daemons out a lot more and makes them not as scary as they were with multi-wound eternal warrior units. I'd like to see more reports but in the 1750-2000 point list range to see what I might realistically be looking to face. Looking forward to more!

Got a lot of responses to get to so I'll probably answer in chunks as I'm pretty busy today.

Arleucs wrote:
Thank you for the quick response/input,
I did not mean to be offensive on the list; I understood that it was a test list.

I agree on the lack of troops; though 5 FMC rushing fowards draws attention from plaguebearers lurking in backfield and horrors which remain at a reasonable distance.

Makes sense on the grinders; I did not consider it this way.

It will be interesting to see how crushers perform; mines are about to shift to a WoC army unless I find them some good use.

Daemon FMC-spam may work, though it is a really unbalanced army. Against some armies, it would absolutely wreck face, but against others, it'll probably lose pretty badly. I'll probably give it a try as I have a lot of the daemon big guys, though you probably won't see me bringing it to any tournaments any time soon.

Unfortunately, the crushers are a little too expensive for my taste, especially since they can be insta-killed by missile launchers and meltas. When you bring the expensive FMC's to your army, the other units really have to be cost-effective. Unfortunately, crushers aren't one of those units IMO.

 Riddick40k wrote:
Planning on trying out any of the new chariots? The Seeker Cavaclade is ridiculously cheap and nasty to anything!

I don't have any and am not looking to get any at this time. I may try them out, but it'll be using proxies if I do so.

 whigwam wrote:

jy2 wrote:Their costs are reasonable and although they've lost a little on the offense (-1 Attack), they have gotten more resilient with +1 Wound. I can definitely see this unit making the final cut to my MTO daemon army.

I like the new Fiends quite a bit myself, but don't understate what they've lost! It's -2A, -1S, and -Hit & Run (boooo!) Fiends' once-impressive damage output has been cut almost in half (for +5pts). So now, they're basically 6-legged assault grenades...but hey, that's pretty neat too. My thinking is that they'll be better off as one or two small (3-4 man) units rather than the expensive 6-man unit you've got here. Besides keeping their cost down, a smaller footprint keeps the Fiends maneuverable and prevents them from blocking your own infantry/cavalry units off in an assault. Since Fiends aren't really killers by themselves, what I think you're really paying for is that -5I that allows your other units to get to work. 105-140pts still seems a bit steep for a few S4 rending hits and pseudo assault grenades, but with Daemonic Instability combat resolution is the name of the game. Daemons need to win that first round of combat and Fiends should help a lot there.

Strongly agree with the Tzeentch Soulgrinders. Besides not wanting to make them an impossible target, you're going to want Grinders moving up, presenting a shooting and assault threat to everything on the table. They can't do that so well while hiding in a ruin or behind an Aegis. When you've got AV13, 4HP, 5++ there isn't a whole lot of shooting worth hiding from anyway. So I say save 10 pts, reroll 1's, and enjoy not constantly having to argue whether this or that actually covers 25% of your Soulgrinder.

Looking forward to the batrep. I'm really curious to see how those Beasts of Nurgle work out. Attention Seeker/being nearly unkillable makes them a very interesting unit, but I have a hard time getting excited about their damage output. To me they seem too weak to be a counter-assault unit and too pricey to be a tarpit...very interested to see how you plan to use them!

Yeah, fiends aren't really as good as before. Then again, almost all the Elites/Fast Attacks got nerfed, especially the ones that were popular in 5th. If you'd notice, GW made the unpopular ones a little better. Marketing ploy to make us buy more models? Hmmm....

I actually like the combo of fiends and beasts of nurgle. Either both move up and assault together or, since fiends are faster, they move up, get assaulted and then the beasts of Nurgle joins into the battle in the enemy's turn (as long as you don't have them lagging too far behind). There is some synergy there. As for Daemonic Instability, just make sure you don't let your opponent multi-assault your big guys and your hordes. That's the best way to lose your bloodthirster.

Beasts of nurgle aren't really killers themselves, though they certainly can win their share of battles. What they will be doing is to lock dangerous units in place and wait for my Thirsters to come in for clean-up.

 Blackmoor wrote:
Well, since you have each god represented it will be interesting to see what impact the warp storm table has on you.

It looks the the early lists are going in 2 directions, one with massed FMC, and the other Slaanesh horde so it will be interesting to see what the skittle army does.

I honestly don't know what is going to be the competitive build here. I don't think massed FMC is it as it leaves the rest of the army rather unbalanced. I've heard of people talking about bringing 60 seekers, but that's a lot of points as well. What I am thinking will do well is a balanced list with some mobility and a lot of inter-dependence (i.e. force multiplier psychic powers and rewards).

What I think my future list will include is probably at least 1 Bloodthirster, 2 soulgrinders, probably 1 unit of 20 seekers and.....lots of furies. Yep, furies of chaos will be involved. They're just too cost-effective not to be.

 yakface wrote:

I think that while in any particular game the Warp Storm table can theoretically deal crippling damage to a skittles CD army, the reality is that on average it shouldn't. Given that, first off, you have about a 45% percent chance each turn of NOT rolling a 5,6,8 or 9 for your Warp Storm roll, and then if you do roll one of those results you're only rolling to affect (in this particular army) at most 5 units on a roll of a '6', it shouldn't happen that often. And with two of those results YOU get to place the big blast centered over a model in your unit, so as long as you keep your guys spread out, you should be able to seriously minimize the damage of those results should they occur (and not scatter).

Funnily enough, since the results that attack Tzeentch and Khorne are on the 6 & 8 results (and those are also the attacks that don't use a blast too), those are the two types of Daemons you would want to avoid having for this reason (and are the two types he actually has the MOST of in this force, with 4 for Khorne and 5 for Tzeentch). Of course, 2 of those Tzeentch units are Soulgrinders, who cannot possibly be damaged by the S4 poisoned attacks of the '6' result anyway.

Whereas for the opponent's army, you're rolling for EVERY unit on any of those results...so from my thinking I don't think worrying about the Warp Storm table even with a skittles Daemon army should be a real consideration and certainly not worth taking an instrument of Chaos about (unless you want the Deep Strike reserve bonus anyway).

Yeah, the Warpstorm table isn't too bad. Most of the effects that are god-specific only hurt on a roll of '6' anyways and your opponent is more likely to be affected than you. Also, as I go down in points, my army will probably be more focused and less "skittles" anyways.

So I agree that you don't really have to worry too much about the Warpstorm table. I actually like it as it is kind of fun rolling to see what happens to your and your opponent's army.

Wow, Daemonic Instability really bites when Daemons lose combat.

Congrats. Good first game tabling your opponent.

Good report Jy2, thanks for sharing your experience with the new Daemons.

I took one look at army comp and did't want to read the report, because it was clear it was going to be a utter curbstomp.

I mean... no JOTWW on the Rune Priests? Really? Against Horde Daemons?

Also, he put his units in range of a first turn charge.

GG

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
I took one look at army comp and did't want to read the report, because it was clear it was going to be a utter curbstomp.

I mean... no JOTWW on the Rune Priests? Really? Against Horde Daemons?

Also, he put his units in range of a first turn charge.

GG

Promise next game will be better.

1750 Competitive Test Game - Hive Fleet Pandora vs Bump-N-Grind Daemons

 SabrX wrote:
Wow, Daemonic Instability really bites when Daemons lose combat.

Congrats. Good first game tabling your opponent.

Good report Jy2, thanks for sharing your experience with the new Daemons.

Yeah, it's like the old Fearless rules, except daemons now have lower LD and don't get saves against DI.

You really have to be careful of your charges. Make sure your big baddies aren't close to a weak horde unit. The last thing you want is for your enemy to charge both and kill both through DI.

 y0disisray wrote:
Great report Jy2! I think DI balanced daemons out a lot more and makes them not as scary as they were with multi-wound eternal warrior units. I'd like to see more reports but in the 1750-2000 point list range to see what I might realistically be looking to face. Looking forward to more!

More will be coming. This is just the beginning.

 Dozer Blades wrote:
Nice to see a hard core melee filled game. Well done sir.

For some reason, I'm really enjoying assault armies in this edition. Maybe it's because everyone is saying that 6E is a shooty codex and assault just isn't competitive in this edition.

bogalubov wrote:
Just played a game with a Thirster and depending on the gift roll, that guy can be beast. I got 4+ FNP and the Thirster went ape on a Tyranid list. My opponent made the mistake of charging a Flyrant, Tervigon, 2 biovores and some gargoyles at the Thirster. They all got put through the meat grinder. All in all he ate 1000 points and was still alive at the end of the game. Initiative 10 with decapitating blow makes him a monstrous creature slayer.

I imagine jy2 will make good use of his two with all his MC practice.

Nasty!

Most units just cannot go up against a thirster mano-e-mano. And it is stupid to do so unless you are running a deathstar unit. Best thing to do is to try to shoot them down if you've got the guns. Sacrifice a unit for him to assault and then gun him down afterwards. That guy is just sic. 2 of them are just downright nasty, just like 2 flyrants in a tyranid army.....speaking of which you should check out my battle report between my daemons and tyranids. You'll see exactly that matchup.

Not owning the daemons book I am impressed with that warp tether gift. Surely that's really OP on a thirster?

BaconUprising wrote:
Not owning the daemons book I am impressed with that warp tether gift. Surely that's really OP on a thirster?

It's 30 points for a 1 in 6 chance of getting it. Not too OP honestly. Yes, it is great though, even if you only have 1 wound left.

BaconUprising wrote:
Not owning the daemons book I am impressed with that warp tether gift. Surely that's really OP on a thirster?

It's ok. It does take away Slay the Warlord from your opponent....assuming your thirster doesn't die a 2nd time.

 jifel wrote:

BaconUprising wrote:
Not owning the daemons book I am impressed with that warp tether gift. Surely that's really OP on a thirster?

It's 30 points for a 1 in 6 chance of getting it. Not too OP honestly. Yes, it is great though, even if you only have 1 wound left.

Right. The chances to get it isn't really great, but when you do, it is definitely a keeper....assuming someone else in the army can grab the Grimoire of True Names.