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Dwarves being my absolute favorite army, as well as one of the most classic High Fantasy races amongst all Fantasies, and of course being one of the oldest armies in Warhammer Fantasy, I feel as though they are crutial to the game and lore.


With that, I have been brainstorming ideas for them, as well as going off rumors and the like.

Some things I thought would be really awesome are:

-Great Cannons, and I mean very great. In size and damage, and points if need be. As well as general Cannon variety, and improvements/modifications.

-Automatons and Golems. I feel as though the Dwarves should be the greatest smiths engineers and mechanics in all the world, and righrly so! Maybe some steam powered automatons as heavy elites and bodyguards. Also, Stone Golems, Dwarves also being the only ones who can wield and bind the Runes, I think having great Runic Golems would be awesome. Maybe even a giant equivilant(just more reliable.).

-Weapon Teams. Yeah yeah, they have been done already. But wouldnt it make a little more sense to have the masters of weapons, use them in all different ways and coherently? Well, I am thinking of sharpshooters, gatling guns, shotguns, and seeing that one mask that comes with the Cannon set, reminds me a lot of Byzantine style flamethrowers/grenadiers. You know where I am going with this.

-Cavalry. Yes cavalry.... For a Dwarf? Yeah I think maybe, I have seen numerous conversions of mighty Bear Cavalry, this would fill the monsterous cavalry slot, and also be really badass, as well as I think fit in the lore. Mighty mountain bears, ridden by Dwarves, damn fine. Now, this may be a stretch, but there are far greater stretches in Fantasy already. Even if the bears are mechanical, or part mechanical. Now of course, this is rather debatable, if cavalry should be included in the army, as they are the slower army.

-Movable Cannons. This may sound strange, but I think that Dwarves need a good chariot cannon. One that can take flanks, and move to strike. It doesnt have to move a great distance either, but something to add some mobility and something new.

-Vehicles. On the subject of mobility, Gyros need a great improvement, maybe the ability to be in squads, as well as other options and upgrades like: different mountable weapons(cannon, organ gun, gatling gun etc.) as well as an option to have Dwarf Warriors sit on the sides with the repeater handguns or gattling guns of sorts. Also, a large drill like mining/tank machine. One which can pound through anything, while also maybe holding miners inside, which can be deployed. Also of which can exchange the drill for a great cannon as mentioned previously, though that of course negates the mining ability. And better Slayers! Make them worth using.(and better models)

Well, along with these things, general changes that I believe MUST happen are; 3+ Armour Save on Gromril, seeing as how most cavalry has a 2+ or 1+ save, I feel it only makes sense. Shield Wall abilities for Ironbreakers, and well, anything with a shield. Competition between Hammerers and Ironbreakers, like the better armour shield wall ability, and possibly killing blow for Ironbreakers, while raising each a point or two. Also Royal Blood for Ironbreakers. Longbeards as different units, and not as upgrades. Give Rangers Scouting. More competition between Thunderers and Quarrellers.

Better army special rules. Something like giving all Dwarves Stubborn. I find this to be quite reasonable with other army special rules now, and it is of course something that is variable.

Anyways, after all of that, let me know what you think! Any and all thoughts welcome, as well as what else you think should be in or what shouldnt, and why, as well how the lore can fit to it, or not?

Army wide stubborn would be completely broken. Besides, steadfast exists and warriors arn't too expensive to make that not an option.

Automatons and Golems: maybe, could be a way to get variety in the army book's infantry.

Weapon Teams: sure, these would be cool.

Cavalry: No, no way. Dwarves are the slow faction.

Mobile cannons: only on a steamtank like structure. Like a Zepplin with either a cannon, organ gun, or fire thrower.



I could see something like a slower bigger steamtank. No random movement, less likely to damage itself, but only like M4 or something. Mostly a shooty platform.

I also think Stubborn could get ridiculous. I saw a lot of people suggesting it, ans I think it could work if there was something that made it only when... Or just something to balance it. There are however a lot of pretty damn good army rules.

The other thing I saw, was cavalry. But I agree, I think it would be awesome. But I think using those slots for cannons and tanks and such, would be much better.The mobile cannon idea I thought would be cool to have one faster moving cannon, like m5, but can move and shoot.

And yeah for the tank, basically just a weapons platform. But that also move somewhat.

Cavalry is a controversial issue as far as Dwarves are concerned, not just because they're meant to be slow, but because a common feature in most fantasy universes is that Dwarves don't trust in animals for transport and prefer to have their feet on the ground. Therefore, if there's going to be any cavalry, I think it should only be Slayers that ride them.

As for the other things, I actually quite like the idea of Stone/Runic Golems and it does kind of fit too. The moveable cannon is a good idea too, maybe if the Golems went in, they could be the ones carrying it.

Yeaah I see what you meam about cavalry. Better off without, who needs those animals anyways? Elves!

And thats an awesome idea. The Golems could wield the cannons, like leadbelcher style, and shoot runic ammo. Or mechanical ones can do the same, with different options.

The dwarves are in serious need of a major overhaul because they are boring to play and boring to play against. My poor dwarves have been shelved a looooooong time.

The big problem is that translating some of their archetypical features into rules for whfb has crippled them in the movement phase and the magic phase. Their strength, warmachines and shooting does not make up for their weaknesses because whfb is combat centric.

The runes just do not make up for no magic phase because other armies have many magic items to choose from. I think we need to move away from the whole "dwarves are the slow army idea" to make them more enjoyable to play. They are supposed to be hardy, so they should be able to march longer than other races and this could be represented by improving their Movement characteristic.

I dont like it when GW changes long and well established background material, but the dwarves are really written into a corner that greatly limits their playability. They supposedly are opposed to innovation so the introduction of a lot of new contraptions will no doubt cause nerd rage. Cavalry for dwarfs would also make a lot of dwarf players unhappy even though the army would greatly benefit from it.

I would like to see the dwarfs receive better warmachines and maybe even a steam vehicle. Other mechanical contrivances such as the golems are reasonable as well. At one time the GW studio was developing a lot of golems for chaos dwarves but the book never was approved.

As far as cavalry goes, you could give the dwarves bears but they wouldnt neccasarily have to ride them. In fact there was a provision for dwarfs and other armies to have creature "hosts" in third edition. Beastmen have the warpig razgor, so perhaps the dwarves could have trained bears as their "monstrous cavalry".

They are lacking in some areas regarding the combat. Though, they still have some really quite good combat tactics. The GW Quarrellers are unlike most ranged units in the game, and Hammerers are damn good for the price. But they do need some more, and better close combat units.

I think the movement should be increased by 1 point. I understand they are supposed to be the "slow army" but some better movement would better. Maybe compensate with a special rule that give some bonus with movement or marching. The Automatons and Golems, as well as the chariot or steam cannons could help with the movement.

I find that the Runes are fine, adding more and changing some and their prices, as well as adding in some pre-made Runic Items could help though

The steam engines and weapon tanks/platforms I think would be excellent and needed additions. I do not think the Empire should be near the sophistication or advanced weaponry that the Dwarves wield, close, but not surpassing or really that close.

I don't know about the tamed animals though. I don't think that fits into the lore very well, especially the way Dwarves to others and how they can mistrust people and things, but I think this could fit into the Automatons and Golem area. Maybe have Runic stone bears? I can see that being pretty awesome.

I dont like it when GW changes long and well established background material, but the dwarves are really written into a corner that greatly limits their playability. They supposedly are opposed to innovation so the introduction of a lot of new contraptions will no doubt cause nerd rage.

They are not against INNOVATION, they are against something without accurate testing! Which is why they have tried and true weapons, but yet still have things like Gyrocopters after they've been through proper test phases.

They just don't do like Empire, where as soon as something looks useful they'll test it out in the battlefield straight away, even if its chaotic as heck. Which is why those dwarves who dislike the long process go to the Empire to work with them.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

I dont like it when GW changes long and well established background material, but the dwarves are really written into a corner that greatly limits their playability. They supposedly are opposed to innovation so the introduction of a lot of new contraptions will no doubt cause nerd rage.

They are not against INNOVATION, they are against something without accurate testing! Which is why they have tried and true weapons, but yet still have things like Gyrocopters after they've been through proper test phases.

They just don't do like Empire, where as soon as something looks useful they'll test it out in the battlefield straight away, even if its chaotic as heck. Which is why those dwarves who dislike the long process go to the Empire to work with them.

LOL you need to read the background material for the Dwarfs sometime!

What is actually written in the army book contradicts your assertion that they are not against innovation.

Page 96, Warhammer Armies: Dwarves 5th edition; discussing Burlock Damminson

"He is also a great traditionalist who discourages innovation. . ."

"In this respect he typifies the attitude of the Engineer's Guild whose objectives are to preserve knowledge and maintain standards of craftsmanship rather than explore new ideas."

"Dwarfs are not very keen on new ideas. . ."

His youthful experiments are characterized as "illicit innovation". His friend Sven was kicked out of the engineers guild because he kept inventing things and even has to endure the embarassing "Trouser Legs Ritual".

Sixth edition book.
The dwarves that work for the Empire engineer guild have been kicked out of the dwarven guild for experimentation and are "considered renegades by the Dwarven Engineer Guild"

The seventh edition book notes that the engineer guild does everything it can to restrain inventive engineers and insure everything is based on reliable proven principles. All the visionary engineers are expelled at some time in their career. As I said dwarves are generally opposed to innovation, its not really debatable unless you are going to ignore the background material and just make up your own stuff (which is fine but that is a different discussion).

Dwarves are typically traditionalists. This is a common trait for them throughout multiple settings and no different in WHFB. "The old ways are best" could be their damn motto.

Though I do agree that they are very keen to hold their own ideas, and keep things the way they are.... They are also very challenging and competitive. I feel as though seeing how much the Empire had advanced, it would be almost a challenge to them, and they would then seek greater and higher mechanics.

I also dont think it would be difficult to write it in, as that happens all the time with new books that present new units.

Regarding Golems though, that would be outside the Engineers Guild power. Now, it is also debateable on whether or not the Runesmiths would look into powers and beings of that sort, but I dont think it is unrealistic.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Amaya wrote:
Dwarves are typically traditionalists. This is a common trait for them throughout multiple settings and no different in WHFB. "The old ways are best" could be their damn motto.

Also very true!

 Grey Templar wrote:
Army wide stubborn would be completely broken. Besides, steadfast exists and warriors arn't too expensive to make that not an option.

I've thought about this before, since it makes fluffy sense to make them Stubborn, but I agree it'd be fairly broken.

My ideas of working around it or implementing it in a different way? Make any unit in combat stubborn if:
- there is another friendly unit in the combat
- there is non-fleeing friendly unit within 3 inches
- there are at least 3 full ranks in the unit
- there are more Dwarf models in the combat than the opponent's models

I dunno, seems like it'd be fluffy w/o being too overpowered in any given situation (i.e. like 7 Ironbreakers being Stubborn vs. 30 Saurus Warriors).

Or maybe Dwarves double the number of ranks they have when determining if they are Steadfast.

That way you would have to have twice as many ranks as a Dwarf unit to deny them Steadfast.


Or you could limit the penelty a Dwarf unit takes for losing combat to -3. They'll never take a modifier of greater than a certain amount.

I like the ideas! And I dont think it wouls be that overpowered. I mean all there is Eternal Hatred, Daemonic, Cold Blooded, and the High Elven one for strikes first(name escapes me), all of which I find to be pretty damn good.

I will say, it is difficult to make an army special rule for stubborn I like the ideas for steadfast and modifiers. I had thought may they get stubborn when the unit falls below like 50% or something. However I like all the points about units being nearby, not fleeing, and having more ranks. I think that could be a solid way to impliment it. As well as the doubling ranks for steadfast.

It also makes perfect sense in the lore, Dwarves fight until the very end no matter the odds or the outcome.