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i think, as long as your opponent doesn't bring any S10 shooting the daemon prince will be better, but if they do all of a sudden your 260pt black mace prince is worthless and will die turn 1..... in my army i plan to run primary detachment of Daemons with Scarbrand and a bloodthirster and ally in C:CSM Daemon prince... i need to find the time to have a game to test this out tho....

Nearly every MC has a high cost, and has to be used like a scalpel to actually have any great effect on a game.
This is true for all MC's (FMC and normal) not just a daemon prince.

Each one has its own role you tailor it to, and deviating from said role pretty much ensures you will lose the MC.

Ive seen people throw a thirster at a unit of DC and lose badly.
Its a case of picking targets carefully, or using them as a counter charge to a unit that has some staying power.

Also, target priority is another big one.
If you have a single FMC, it does not matter how careful you are, it will not last.
You need to saturate the enemy in high priority targets to get the job done, which is why people tend to have the 3 or 0 prince idea.

I usually run 3 princes and a LoC (and sometimes kairos if points permit)
And the enemy usually isnt sure what to shoot 1st.


On a side note here, i take princes over grinders because i dislike melta and my local area has plenty of it.
I can lose both grinders to deepstriking units early on.
This is an issue i dont have with princes, but they do need to hug cover as they are vulnerable to normal shooting.

Simply play smart and dont expect a prince to grind through everything.
He is tough and carves through alot, but he is able to die, and will do with 1 or 2 poor choices.

Juggalo17 wrote:
i think, as long as your opponent doesn't bring any S10 shooting the daemon prince will be better, but if they do all of a sudden your 260pt black mace prince is worthless and will die turn 1..... in my army i plan to run primary detachment of Daemons with Scarbrand and a bloodthirster and ally in C:CSM Daemon prince... i need to find the time to have a game to test this out tho....

Well assault becomes quite dicey at T5. Any monstrous creature can go with smash attack which is S10. So the daemon prince has to be picky with what he charges. If he doesn't put down the monstrous creature on the first turn, he might get pulped in the return attacks.

bogalubov wrote:

Juggalo17 wrote:
i think, as long as your opponent doesn't bring any S10 shooting the daemon prince will be better, but if they do all of a sudden your 260pt black mace prince is worthless and will die turn 1..... in my army i plan to run primary detachment of Daemons with Scarbrand and a bloodthirster and ally in C:CSM Daemon prince... i need to find the time to have a game to test this out tho....

Well assault becomes quite dicey at T5. Any monstrous creature can go with smash attack which is S10. So the daemon prince has to be picky with what he charges. If he doesn't put down the monstrous creature on the first turn, he might get pulped in the return attacks.

The DPs toughness 5 is now mitigated by the fact that he is now WS 9, meaning the vast majority of things he assaults will need 5s to hit him. That includes most walkers and many MCs.

Plus a black mace prince charges with 7+D6 Ap2 attacks that are fleshbane and almost always hit on 3+, meaning you can expect to inflict about 8 wounds... not much can withstand that and still have enough attacks to see trike bsck and take him down... worst case scenario is a big squad of TH/SS terminators, but your fast enough to dodge them or if you must you multi charge them so they dont get a chance

Juggalo17 wrote:
Plus a black mace prince charges with 7+D6 Ap2 attacks that are fleshbane and almost always hit on 3+, meaning you can expect to inflict about 8 wounds... not much can withstand that and still have enough attacks to see trike bsck and take him down... worst case scenario is a big squad of TH/SS terminators, but your fast enough to dodge them or if you must you multi charge them so they dont get a chance

Strike back? Anyone in cover strikes him first. And a 3+/5++ ain't all that.

Also unless I am terribly mistaken the black mace's AP4 overrules the MC's AP2 CC attacks rule. But having between 8-13 attacks on the charge with the fleshblane usr at his WS/I you're gonna put some serious hurt on even MEQ.

pjcoffey55 wrote:
Also unless I am terribly mistaken the black mace's AP4 overrules the MC's AP2 CC attacks rule. But having between 8-13 attacks on the charge with the fleshblane usr at his WS/I you're gonna put some serious hurt on even MEQ.

Wrong, a MC's Smash rule overrides any weapon it takes.

I've only played 1 game with daemons (against crons) and had to use a DP as it was the only model I had for a HQ. I kitted him out with Wings, Armour, Mark of Slanesh, and 2 greater gifts.

To be honest I was very pleased with his performance. He ended up with the 4+ FNP and Rerollable invuls from his gifts. I was combining this with throwing the Grimor of True Names buff on him (from my herald) when needed to give him a 3+ rerollable invul, which is risky incase it backfires, but crons don't have much to go through a 3+ armour save so I had nothing to lose. He was very durable. Took a load of fire from 3 Annihilation barges and 2 Night Scythes, managed to explode 2 of the barges and keep a wraith unit chasing him. The Fleet rerolls on charge and running means he is very very mobile as well. I was seceptical before hand but I wouldn't hesitate to use him again.

 Brymm wrote:
Because if used correctly, they will roll an opponents entire army.
For the same price, a Grey Knights Strike Squad will not do that.

I saw written somewhere that units like the Daemon Prince are a home-run unit. They aren't going to grind hits, get on base, bunt, sac-fly and what-not. They will strike out swinging or hit you a homer. There is a place on a team for a player like that and theres a place in a list for a unit like this.

Tactically though, I can't think of a unit that will show you the difference between a good player and a bad player faster than the Daemon Prince.
Lastly, play with terrain that can block line of sight and you will see this guy get a lot better quick.

Agreed. They can be brutal IF used by someone who knows how to use them. Even then, sometimes they're hot, sometimes they're not.

If your playing CD, I can see why you would want to take a DP if your trying to maximum amount of turn 2 pressure.

Lets say that your army list looks something like this...
10 plague bearers
10 plague bearers
10 plague bearers
20 seekers
20 khorne dogs
6 fiends
Slaanesh Herald
Khorne Herald on Jugg

You have an army with 3 deck chair units and lots of turn 2 assault units. Your now sitting at 1295 points. If your playing a 1850 game, how do you spend those last 555 points?
Well, you can take a bloodthirster to add to the turn 2 assault threat. That leaves you 255 points floating. To continue to add to the turn 2 assault threat, add a daemon prince.
That's why I can see you adding a daemon prince. While you could add more seekers/khorne dogs you have to worry about footprint issues. Those units are huge on the board, and you will not be able to assault due to your models being in the way. The DP also increases your threat vs AV 14, which is something that you could be missing.
I would not suggest more than one DP for that role.

Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

pjcoffey55 wrote:
Also unless I am terribly mistaken the black mace's AP4 overrules the MC's AP2 CC attacks rule. But having between 8-13 attacks on the charge with the fleshblane usr at his WS/I you're gonna put some serious hurt on even MEQ.

Wrong, a MC's Smash rule overrides any weapon it takes.

okay so let me get this straight in my head. In order to make your attacks AP2 even with something like the black mace you have to use the smash rule which halves your attacks but makes you S10? Meh I would rather stay at my normal attacks unless I'm going against TEQ's honestly. Just my 2cents. The math may work out to prove my idea "inefficient"

No smash gives you AP2 regardless of whether or not you double your S. It's always active.

Okay gotcha. Thanks for clarifying