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I mentioned something to them regarding selling their products ASAP back in November.

They seem really hesitant in doing so because they don't want to piss off backers.

I understand not wanting to rock the boat, but when it you want your product to get exposure, wait on one guy is going to hurt you long term. People will take there gaming bucks elsewhere.

Eventually a company does have to start selling direct.

If you get caught in the kickstarter spiral, it ends up like being in a vicious loaning cycle, you keep having to pump out kickstarter work to have enough to fulfill previous kickstarters.

Soon, the only press and reputation you get are from kickstarters, and no one but a smaller and smaller group cares about your game. All because they don't see your product on store shelves, or actually being played.

Some companies thrive on that, but ask people wanting to actually play Darklands as to what they think about Mierce's handling of it, and the slow decay in their quality of sculpts.

They don't want to be kickstarter company, they want to be self reliant on their own flow of products. Sounded like they would only do a KS if absolutely needed.

This KS funded twice what they anticipated creating a bigger back log and expectations of a timetable with artists, casting company and MIKH...



Wouldn't mind kickstarting them again if they released another IP

 cincydooley wrote:
I'm sorry that you chose not to get split shipping, but you should have, or at the very least, switched from the models that clearly weren't close to be finished.

Actually, no, I didn't have to do anything like that. It's the project creator's responsibility to produce the content they pitched in the campaign in a timely fashion, not mine to figure out if one of their contractors happens to be glacially slow.

There are ways for them to get out of this situation that are well within the spirit of a KS campaign, as mentioned above. None of them involve selling models I still don't see on my table.

I agree, they should ship all pledges (and refund / replace for Hroka) and then start selling. It seems like they could do this as soon as Septimus and Nero arrives and are cast. Win - win!

I'd have ZERO problem if they opened up their webstore and started shipping stuff bought on it ASAP.

As cincy previously noted, RRG offered a couple of 'split shipping' options once the MIKH Issue became obvious.

If someone chose to NOT opt to take advantage of that?

Well, they then shouldn't expect a fledgling game company to be held hostage by MIKH AND by them.

Presumably anyone who backed this campaign wants to see this game continue on and thrive - right?

Were the split shipping options free of charge?

 His Master's Voice wrote:
Were the split shipping options free of charge?

No. And nor should they have been.

They told us where MIKH stood. I had Septimus and Nero in my original order and removed them when it became abundantly clear that he was going nowhere fast. You could have done the same.

You don't have product right now because you chose not to have product right now.

Wait, so because MIKH and the company that employs him are incompetent, I'm the one to pay for the incompetence?

Bizarre line of thought.

No, not at all!

You don't have to pay extra - but your choice means you'll just have to wait a while longer.

And apparently, if you also got Hroka, you'll be waiting a long, long while!

Um, apparently the split shipping was a paid option. So was it, or was it not? Because that makes all the difference.

"Paid" in the sense that your second shipment would have to paid for by either (1) Just paying for it! or (2) Adding it onto a future purchase made at the webstore.

I opted for Option (2) and eagerly await the ability to buy a lot of the models I couldn't afford at the time of the KS campaign!

 His Master's Voice wrote:
Um, apparently the split shipping was a paid option. So was it, or was it not?

I already said that it wasn't free.

Because that makes all the difference.

I mean, it doesn't, really. The choice to not have any of your models yet still lies with you.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 His Master's Voice wrote:
Wait, so because MIKH and the company that employs him are incompetent, I'm the one to pay for the incompetence?

I think calling RRG 'incompetent' is a pretty gross stretch. They secured one of the better sculptors in the industry. They did, initially, what they had to do to work with him. They can't control when he does and does not finish what they've already contracted from him beyond filing a suit, which would be more difficult considering they're not in the same country.

I simply think your line of thinking is myopic.

I'd like the game to thrive. That isn't going to happen if they can't sell more product.

 cincydooley wrote:
I mean, it doesn't, really. The choice to not have any of your models yet still lies with you.

The choice to pay extra for someone else's mistake? I'll pass. I already gave them hundreds of dollars of my money.

You seem to be personally invested in the game, so I get that your outlook on the matter will be different from mine. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

 His Master's Voice wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:
I mean, it doesn't, really. The choice to not have any of your models yet still lies with you.

The choice to pay extra for someone else's mistake? I'll pass. I already gave them hundreds of dollars of my money.

You seem to be personally invested in the game, so I get that your outlook on the matter will be different from mine. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

As personally invested as you are.

I get that you want your things. You could have had them. You could have, when it was APPARENT that MIKH wasn't going to be getting his pieces done anytime soon, taken any of the other options outlined to us in Update 67 in August. I'll remind you of them in the event that you forgot:

Here are the options we are making available to those of you with affected pledges:

Sit tight. Your package will be shipped when all minis are complete. No need to contact us unless your address has changed.

Send them with your arena mat. If you have an arena mat included with your pledge, we can ship everything except your mat and the incomplete miniatures when the first wave begins. When the final miniatures are complete, we’ll ship them together with the mat. Please email info@redrepublicgames.com with the subject line “Mat Reward Split” if you want to split shipping in this way.

I.O.U. If you are planning on making a purchase through the web store once it goes live, Request an I.O.U. to have the incomplete models included in the shipping with an upcoming order. Please email info@redrepublicgames.com with the subject line “Delayed Reward I.O.U.” to set this up.

Change your selection. If you’d like to adjust your pledge rewards and replace the incomplete models with alternatives so we can ship your rewards sooner, email info@redrepublicgames.com with the subject line “Delayed Reward Swap”.

Split it anyway. If none of the above options work for you, we can split the shipping on a one-off basis for the cost of the additional shipping. Please email info@redrepublicgames.com with the subject line “Paid Reward Split”

So again, the fact that you don't have any models is on you. You had options. You could have everything but the tardy MIKH models. RRG has been nothing but up front about MIKH's inability to get his sculpts for them finished. I removed Septimus & Nero & Hroka from my order. You had the opportunity to as well. You chose not to.

I think the viewpoint that they shouldn't sell anything from the KS until all the MIKH models are done is foolish and myopic. We obviously don't agree on that.

So guys, quick question! I am a complete miniature noobie. I have never painted nor assembled anything before. How complex is it to assemble these miniatures. I am of course not referring to the massive complex ones, such as the rhino.

Just wondering if buying any of these minis for DnD would be at all realistic for me.

Doublehex wrote:
So guys, quick question! I am a complete miniature noobie. I have never painted nor assembled anything before. How complex is it to assemble these miniatures. I am of course not referring to the massive complex ones, such as the rhino.

Just wondering if buying any of these minis for DnD would be at all realistic for me.

Honestly, the Rhino looks like it will be one of the easier ones.

I'd avoid the Egyptian themed ones, to be honest. They had some smaller fiddly bits that, if you're not used to working with resin mins, you could find yourself breaking fairly easily.

Some of the other ones are quite easy to put together. Micon was easy. Gaius was easy. Those two stand out to me.

But they're still all going to be relatively delicate, so you should expect to want to store them in some foam to keep them safe when not in use.

Thanks! I was worried that they would be complex to put together, but it seems they should be pretty easy.

Doublehex wrote:
Thanks! I was worried that they would be complex to put together, but it seems they should be pretty easy.

I think I only had real trouble with Viatrix, Tiet-Khebi, Zahra, and Frigge (sort of). They all had some really tiny bits that were harder to put on. The Egyptian Men weren't super hard, but did also have some smaller, more fiddly pieces (specifically the fake beards).

I don't recall having any major trouble with any of the other models.

 cincydooley wrote:
I think the viewpoint that they shouldn't sell anything from the KS until all the MIKH models are done is foolish and myopic. We obviously don't agree on that.

Thanks for making it personal. Makes it much easier to just cut this exchange short.

 His Master's Voice wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:
I think the viewpoint that they shouldn't sell anything from the KS until all the MIKH models are done is foolish and myopic. We obviously don't agree on that.

Thanks for making it personal. Makes it much easier to just cut this exchange short.

Nothing personal about it. I think the viewpoint, regardless who holds it, is foolishly shortsighted. And that's what I said in my previous comment.

There is nothing relevant to a person other than the thoughts he or she might have. If my viewpoint is foolish, then by definition I am foolish. Might want to keep that in mind the next time you call someone myopic.

I'll give this one more try though.

The choice between waiting for all the content to be finalized and paying for another round of shipping is not a choice at all. I am forced to either wait multiple months beyond the projected delivery date (which is what I'm currently doing, without a word of complaint) or pay extra, all because the company I have a deal with cannot extract work from their contractor. In my line of work, that contractor would have been let go without pay and his work either reassigned or cancelled. But here apparently the customer is supposed to cover the extra cost of someone else's incompetence or negligence. The fact that you do not see that as anything but RRG's problem and not mine is baffling. I fulfilled my part of the contract - the money has been transferred. RRG has not delivered on their part. It is of no concern to me why that is. They might be a plucky underdog, but that doesn't prevent them from obeying common rules.

It's clear RRG shares my sentiment, given they decided to withhold all project items from sale until they can ship them to the kickstarter backers, IN FULL.

I'm not sure that they're going to do that - I don't really think they're going to wait until Hroka is ready before they start selling everything.

At least, I hope not!

That's enough use of words like "myopic" in this thread, referring to other posters or their views. Please make your points without resorting to derogatory language like this - it is completely unnecessary.

For myself, I think it's worth noting that His Master's Voice is international to RRG. It's much easier for domestic backers to pay for multiple shipments. I think by far the best solution is to ship all pledges once Septimus and Nero arrive, refund/replace for Hroka, and then (having fulfilled all pledges) open the webstore. I'll definitely be buying Nero as soon as it is available!

 RiTides wrote:
That's enough use of words like "myopic" in this thread, referring to other posters or their views. Please make your points without resorting to derogatory language like this - it is completely unnecessary.

Myopic isn't a derogatory term. It's a synonym for near or short sighted. Maybe we need a "derogatory term" glossary here on Dakka; it broadens (grows larger) every day.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 His Master's Voice wrote:
I fulfilled my part of the contract - the money has been transferred. RRG has not delivered on their part.

Well there's your problem. You have no contract with them, whatsoever. You DONATED to a funding campaign. You aren't guaranteed anything.

I hope RRG opens their webstore before Hroka and Septimus are shipped. They've waited long enough.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 His Master's Voice wrote:


It's clear RRG shares my sentiment, given they decided to withhold all project items from sale until they can ship them to the kickstarter backers, IN FULL.

And I don't think they should. They're costing themselves money and neutering the game's ability to grow.

I think they should have sold their product at GenCon last year before it was shipped to backers at all.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Anyway, I'm done with this portion of the discussion. I disagree with you vehemently and that's not going to change.

I'm off to the site to order the three additional models I presently can, with the hopes that the store will have more inventory very soon.

 cincydooley wrote:
Well there's your problem. You have no contract with them, whatsoever. You DONATED to a funding campaign. You aren't guaranteed anything.

You're right, I'm not guaranteed anything. The agreement between me and RRG is an informal one, with some KS specific stipulations. That doesn't change the fact that our deal was explicitly my patronage in exchange for physical content, before it becomes a commercial product. They seem to be honouring those terms right now.

And I made it very clear in this very thread that I'd be more than fine with RRG cancelling a portion of the project in order to ship it and be able to sell the miniatures through the store. KS projects are not precise science and sometimes MIKHs happen. We all understand that.

 His Master's Voice wrote:

And I made it very clear in this very thread that I'd be more than fine with RRG cancelling a portion of the project in order to ship it and be able to sell the miniatures through the store. KS projects are not precise science and sometimes MIKHs happen. We all understand that.

Ha!

Good one!

It is probably also a good time to move past this particular part of the conversation.

I suppose we'll all see what RRG decides to do soon enough - I hope!

Should I trust the conan KS with MIKH involved?


MIKH is jar jar Binks.

As previously noted, MIKH is in the same country as Monolith's main men, and seems to also be 'friends' with them too?

SO you should be OK.

But that October shipping 'estimate'?

With all the extras unlocked AND Chinese New Year 2015/2016 AND MIKH?

Ha!

 Alpharius wrote:
As previously noted, MIKH is in the same country as Monolith's main men, and seems to also be 'friends' with them too?

SO you should be OK.

But that October shipping 'estimate'?

With all the extras unlocked AND Chinese New Year 2015/2016 AND MIKH?

Ha!

According to their kickstarter update today they are still good for the October release. I think Mikh's models was ordered long, long ago and should easily be ready in time. It's probably one that kicked this model back further down the que, but that is what Conan does.