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Hey Dakka, after Orks I'm looking at doing Space Marines, With a Red Scorpions scheme, I'm not looking for the most competitive build so therefore please note that I am also wanting to collect models that I like, hence why these choices might not be the best (Typhoons instead of Riflemen Dreads, for example). Here is my List:

HQ:

Librarian 100 (Going to use the Sevrin Loth Model)
Null Zone, The Avenger

Troops:

10 Tactical Marines 220
Combi Melta, Meltagun, Missile Launcher, Rhino

10 Tactical Marines 220
Combi MeltaMeltagun, Missile Launcher, Rhino

5 Tactical Marines 170
Razorback, Lascannon and TL Plasma Gun, Dozer Blade

Elites:

5 Assault Terminators 450
Thunder Hammers/Storm Shields, Land Raider Redeemer, Multi Melta

Fast Attack:

2 Land Speeder Typhoons 180
Heavy Bolters

2 Land Speeder Typhoons 180
Heavy Bolters

Heavy Support:

Vindicator 115

Vindicator 115

Thunderfire Cannon 100

1850/1850

Comments Appreciated, Although I'm wanting to keep a Mech theme and also keep the Speeders as they are one of the reasons I want to start this army

Cheers

Is cullen the red scorpion one?

Yeah, his rules can be found here http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/c/culln.pdf (not sure if it is ok to post these but it is rules that are on the FW website.)

Any additional comments?

Why no matched combi weapons in first list and why on earth have you got combimeltas in a squad with plasmagun?

Solo Landraiders are a big no no in this edition. The lack of melta in this edition means 2 or more Landraiders can cause people real difficulties. But everyone can deal with 1.

Why twinlinked lascannon on the Razorback? Assault Cannon or las plas are the only good options.

Why so many tac marines? 20 is more than enough at this point level.

You need a bit more melta in the list.

But I like double Vindicator, Typhoons are good, TH/SS Terminators in LR is good. so there's plenty good in the list just needs polishing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also what's your plan against flyers?

They're both quite similar really. So I'd go with the second one, drop a terminator and then give the librarian terminator armour and chuck him in the redeemer as well. It's looking like he's meant to be going in the razorback at the moment but he wont really get to do much there, in particular use his force weapon. Then you wont have any issues either over whether or not you can field your commander. TBH cullen looks like a normal captain with the armour and relic blade added, with eternal warrior smacked on. EW's nice but it looks like you're paying a bit for it.
The librarian would work well with null zone and the terminators power weapons to ignore any pesky invulnerable saves.

 rahxephon wrote:
They're both quite similar really. So I'd go with the second one, drop a terminator and then give the librarian terminator armour and chuck him in the redeemer as well. It's looking like he's meant to be going in the razorback at the moment but he wont really get to do much there, in particular use his force weapon. Then you wont have any issues either over whether or not you can field your commander. TBH cullen looks like a normal captain with the armour and relic blade added, with eternal warrior smacked on. EW's nice but it looks like you're paying a bit for it.
The librarian would work well with null zone and the terminators power weapons to ignore any pesky invulnerable saves.

I've dropped the list down to the Libby list, as I agree with you, I also prefer the Librarian list because you can get more stuff.

The Combi Weapons were for versatility really, if I really need to get rid of a vehicle and want something with the power to do it, then at least I have a couple of one shot meltas to use, Meltaguns could be nice, but I have enough Light AT through the Speeders, Plasma also works and even the LR and Vindicators can do a job if they're needed.

Because I wanted to use the Sevrin Loth model for my Librarian, I'd like to refrain from giving him Terminator Armour, although this does make him vulnerable, So I might still include him in the Terminator unit if he is needed and use the Terminator sergeant to accept challenges with his 3++. That's why the list is semi competitive, as I want to be using models that appeal given the price of the hobby nowadays

To be able to stick the Libby in the LR means I need to drop a terminator, which frees up another 40 points, this gives me 65 points left over, should I upgrade to a standard LR which gives me a bit more Firepower to be able to deal with Fliers? That also leaves another 55 points if I do.

Cheers

But by mixing plasma and melta you're wasting both. The reason to take a combiweapon is for when you need your special weapon to work your combi doubles your chances. Diversified squads are not effective in 40,000 efficiency wins battles.

Ok, so how about this:

I drop the Plasma Guns and take Meltaguns, this frees up another 10 points, which I can use to swap the Redeemer with a standard Land Raider. This gives me 2 Meltaguns, 3 1 shot Meltaguns, 3 TL Lascannons and 4 Typhoon Missile Launchers and 2 Regular Missile Launchers to perform the main Anti Tank, I also then have 65 points left to spend, what would you suggest?

Normal Landraider is appalling take the Crusader or keep the Redeemer.

With the spare points you could get a predator. Increases your high AV target saturation.

Updated list, how does it look now? (I could always drop the TFC for a Pred and take Combi weapons on the Tacs if that would be a better option)

Cheers

Do not dare to take out the TFC!!
List looks good and solid!

Looks good, Im still not so sure about the razorback unit. Just cant quite see what it contributes with just 5 normal guys, maybe holding objectives like in the backfield? If you could find 10 points somewhere you could drop it for 2 more typhoons.

 rahxephon wrote:
Looks good, Im still not so sure about the razorback unit. Just cant quite see what it contributes with just 5 normal guys, maybe holding objectives like in the backfield? If you could find 10 points somewhere you could drop it for 2 more typhoons.

Yeah it's for objectives, I'd love to do what you say and drop the squad for more Speeders but I think that would make me a bit light as I don't really want to be Combat squadding

Well your tac squads are all still poorly equipped and you've still got a Solo Landraider which is a bad idea.

If you're not intending to combat squad the units, then wont the missile launchers be kinda screwed as they'll be moving most turns? That or they stay still and the meltaguns effect is wasted.

Would a MM be the better option then?

Yeah but you'd still be snapfiring, but mostly for anything other than a HB or ML, you have to pay for it. I cant see what else you'd drop without causing a bit of a change in you're list. I run my tacticals similar out of rhinos, but combat squad them and also give the sergeant a combi weapon.

I think the only thing i could really drop without hurting the Mech would be a TFC and the dozer blades on the Rhinos, this would give me enough for 2 Combi Weapons and a Pred with TL AC/HBs

My advice is drop all the dozer blades and get 2 combimeltas Id consider swaping the MLs for MMs but both are good options.

Then I would get a decent gun on the Razorback. Why have you selected the worst option in the 35 point range?

I was going to use the TL Lascannon for long range, seeing as a need a unit to stay back on home objectives, I'd rather take the Las/TL Plas if I need to change it, as I can still use the Lascannon. Would that be a better choice over the Assault Cannon?

Yes las plas is a brilliant option. Take that and get those combi weapons they massively improve the combat effectiveness of the tac squad.

Las Plas is a great razorback option. It hink it's easily the best one in the C:SM codex.

Right, so I've got Las/TL Plas now, I am willing to drop the Dozer Blades on the transports but if I'm taking Combi Weapons, then I want them on all 3 units ideally, so I might drop the TFC and take an Autocannon/HB pred.

Combi is not a necessity on the 5 man squad as they're just for sitting in the razorback anyway and there's no special weapon to support.

^ agree, loose the dozers, take the combi's and keep the TFC

Updated List. Hopefully that's finalised, your thoughts?