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Had this idea in another thread.

Names are important. Brand recognition and all that. But what if the name 'Warhammer 40,000' held the game back? What if it limited the audience?

I haven't been here since Rogue Trader, but I assume Warhammer 40,000 was originally called that because it used similar mechanics to Warhammer Fantasy Battles, but was set 40,000 years in the future, so calling it that let people who already played WFB know what the new game was like.

If that is the case, why call it 'Warhammer' now? Especially if it might be bigger than WFB.

Would GW changing the name from 'Warhammer 40,000' to something else bother you personally? I'm genuinely curious.

As long as we could still call it '40k' in casual conversation, I don't see why.

Changing the name will not happen because of the importance of brand recognition. No business person in their right mind woulld change the name Warhammer 40k after 25 years of marketing and exposure.

I do not see how the name is limiting the audience. I think the 40k moniker immediately identifies it as a "futuristic" "science fiction" product. In any event the warhammer aspect of the name is quite appropriate because the game is really more "futuristic space fantasy" than hard nosed science fiction.

By the way it is definitely bigger than whfb and has been for many years. That actually is another good reason to keep Warhammer in the name, it is bound to help the less popular whfb product which is struggling!

FYI: The mechanics of the Rogue Trader game were not even remotely similar to the contemporary 3rd edition of whfb.

JWhex wrote:
Changing the name will not happen because of the importance of brand recognition. No business person in their right mind woulld change the name Warhammer 40k after 25 years of marketing and exposure.

I don't know:

http://www.famousnamechanges.net/html/corporate.htm

What if Warhammer 40,000 is Brad's Drink?

It isn't. What if Dungeons & Dragons had changed its name? In the hobby/gaming world, name recognition is everything. And I'm not sure where or how the namenis "holding it back".

I assume you have nothing else to add?

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
It isn't. What if Dungeons & Dragons had changed its name? In the hobby/gaming world, name recognition is everything. And I'm not sure where or how the namenis "holding it back".

I assume you have nothing else to add?

Nah, you assumed wrong.

You raised Dungeons and Dragons, a name that pretty much let's you know what you're in for. You'll mainly be exploring dungeons, you'll sometimes be fighting dragons. You'll gather a party and venture forth.

Star Wars is about wars occuring in space. The name let's you know if it is or isn't for you.

But what the hell does Warhammer 40,000 even mean? Ghal Maraz doesn't exist as far as we know in the 40k universe. It's based on our reality, not the Warhammer one.

40k is a niche hobby, there's no denying that. How many people balk at even trying it because just the name sounds goofy

Maybe at first, but now, I think it's more than well known enough that even people that aren't familiar with the game itself, recognize it.

Honestly, anyone that may be interested in it has probably already heard of it. If not, the name isn't going to turn them off.

What does Warhammer 40,000 even mean?

It means the people that bought you Warhammer now offer a sci-fi based alternative. The name is synonymous with the product, changing it would be a bad thing imo.

Edit: Say they changed the name to 'sci-fi tabletop game x' I'd wager decent money that the following tagline would be 'from the people that made Warhammer(tm)'

MarsNZ wrote:
What does Warhammer 40,000 even mean?

It means the people that bought you Warhammer now offer a sci-fi based alternative. The name is synonymous with the product, changing it would be a bad thing imo.

Edit: Say they changed the name to 'sci-fi tabletop game x' I'd wager decent money that the following tagline would be 'from the people that made Warhammer(tm)'

I agree that they'd probably have some rider similar to that, and it probably is too late to change. It might even be a sacred cow.

I'm just curious whether changing the name could help bring in new blood, or make word of mouth easier. I love 40k, the game, the models, the art, the stories, but it's such a niche hobby.

No, no it is not.

On another note, define holding it back? Back from what? Becoming the biggest most successful miniature gaming company out there?

Eldercaveman wrote:
No, no it is not.

On another note, define holding it back? Back from what? Becoming the biggest most successful miniature gaming company out there?

Sorry, when I say 'holding it back' I mean from more mainstream success. Being a big fish in a small pond, especially compared to the other entertainment ponds, or lakes as they'd be called.

I can't think of a goofier name than "Lady GaGa", and still she caters to an audience of millions.

Seriously, what do you find wrong with "Warhammer 40.000" as a brand? I like it. It fits the product like a glove.

"War" - It's a wargame and/or a military sci-fi setting for other media. "40.000" evokes the distant future and science-fiction. "Hammer", an ancient, crude weapon, hints at the sheer brutality of the setting and, in contrast with the science-fictional tones, also suggests that this ain't your ordinary "chrome and spandex" sci-fi. As for the niche qualities the brand... well, certain products are not meant to be mainstream. Not everyone is tooled to cater to a mass market.

Still, I'm curious. How do you think the the game we know and love will benefit from a different brand?

I think the thing keeping it a somewhat niche hobby is the fact that well, it's a niche hobby. Tabletop gaming in general is looked at as very nerdy, more so even than role-playing games like D&D. It has the social acceptance to match. It's aimed at a very specific demographic, which relatively speaking, is a small one.

It's not meant to be more 'mainstream' with the general population. It's all relative though. Based on it's targeted demographic, within that group it IS mainstream. It's focus fire rather than pie plate.

Whenlni was at school, games workshop and its products of which one was 40k, were negatively viewed as geeky and frowned upon by the cool kids and those who followed.

Clearly i dont care as its my main hobby, but i do agree that there is a negative ball and chain that the name carries

However it is outweighed by the positive reputation the brand has so its on a big net gain. Any gamers put off by the percieved geekiness of the brand are outnumbered by those who arent, especially youngsters.

However the younger folk playing dont have the same school yard politics, so that reputation will likely diminish as the current band of school gamers grow into the main (spending) demographic

 Agent_Tremolo wrote:
I can't think of a goofier name than "Lady GaGa", and still she caters to an audience of millions.

Seriously, what do you find wrong with "Warhammer 40.000" as a brand? I like it. It fits the product like a glove.

"War" - It's a wargame and/or a military sci-fi setting for other media. "40.000" evokes the distant future and science-fiction. "Hammer", an ancient, crude weapon, hints at the sheer brutality of the setting and, in contrast with the science-fictional tones, also suggests that this ain't your ordinary "chrome and spandex" sci-fi. As for the niche qualities the brand... well, certain products are not meant to be mainstream. Not everyone is tooled to cater to a mass market.

Still, I'm curious. How do you think the the game we know and love will benefit from a different brand?

Thanks for the reasoned response.

I think a name change could re-invigorate the brand, which seems stagnant at the moment. The last explosive growth seemed to be LOTR years ago, or coincided with video game releases like Dawn of War. It seems (personal opinion) not much new blood is entering the hobby, and a lot of old blood is heading to other wargames.

I like the name Warhammer 40,000 but imagine if you're brand new to wargaming - what does the name 'Warhammer 40,000' mean to you? Apart from that it must be good, it's the 39,999th sequel

What does Warhammer 40,000 even mean?

It means the grim, gothic feel of Warhammer Fantasy, in a science fiction setting. I think it works fine, really as a better version of what equates to "Warhammer Sci-fi".

Yeah I like the name 40k as well. I think the switch from Rogue Trader was a smart move as even the main artwork for 40k is memorable.

 VorpalBunny74 wrote:
Thanks for the reasoned response.

I think a name change could re-invigorate the brand, which seems stagnant at the moment. The last explosive growth seemed to be LOTR years ago, or coincided with video game releases like Dawn of War. It seems (personal opinion) not much new blood is entering the hobby, and a lot of old blood is heading to other wargames.

I like the name Warhammer 40,000 but imagine if you're brand new to wargaming - what does the name 'Warhammer 40,000' mean to you? Apart from that it must be good, it's the 39,999th sequel

I'm really not so sure that all that many people are being turned off by the brand name. I think people that might be immediately turned off by the name because it's silly would probably be turned off by the delightfully silly background, which is frankly about all 40k has going for it.

I agree with the previous guy who said that wargaming is itself a niche hobby. 40k will never be "mainstream" but it's as close as a tabletop wargame can reasonably hope to get, especially in the modern computer gaming world.

 tuebor wrote:

 VorpalBunny74 wrote:
Thanks for the reasoned response.

I think a name change could re-invigorate the brand, which seems stagnant at the moment. The last explosive growth seemed to be LOTR years ago, or coincided with video game releases like Dawn of War. It seems (personal opinion) not much new blood is entering the hobby, and a lot of old blood is heading to other wargames.

I like the name Warhammer 40,000 but imagine if you're brand new to wargaming - what does the name 'Warhammer 40,000' mean to you? Apart from that it must be good, it's the 39,999th sequel

I'm really not so sure that all that many people are being turned off by the brand name. I think people that might be immediately turned off by the name because it's silly would probably be turned off by the delightfully silly background, which is frankly about all 40k has going for it.

I agree with the previous guy who said that wargaming is itself a niche hobby. 40k will never be "mainstream" but it's as close as a tabletop wargame can reasonably hope to get, especially in the modern computer gaming world.

I don't think its the name, far from. It is at its heart a table top game which involves pushing little toy solders around, throwing two hand fulls worth of dice (guard and ork plays know what I mean,) and going "PEWWW PEWWW PEWWW!"

Your also coming of as a first year marketing student as well as a green 40k-er. But fear not, the longer you stay as one of us the more jaded and bitter you become

 VorpalBunny74 wrote:

JWhex wrote:
Changing the name will not happen because of the importance of brand recognition. No business person in their right mind woulld change the name Warhammer 40k after 25 years of marketing and exposure.

I don't know:

http://www.famousnamechanges.net/html/corporate.htm

What if Warhammer 40,000 is Brad's Drink?

Add to that WWWF which turned into WWF which turned into WWFE which turned into WWE.

That is a regional company that went global and has changed it's trading name a silly amount of times.

Name changes do happen often from a corporate and product standpoint.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
But in no way should the name change from 40k to anything else unless they moved the timeline forward by ten k.

 VorpalBunny74 wrote:

JWhex wrote:
Changing the name will not happen because of the importance of brand recognition. No business person in their right mind woulld change the name Warhammer 40k after 25 years of marketing and exposure.

I don't know:

http://www.famousnamechanges.net/html/corporate.htm

What if Warhammer 40,000 is Brad's Drink?

I want to say though, a lot of those consist of smaller companies changing their names before they become really really popular. 40k is already popular (in wargaming terms) and well known, so the name hit would mean a lot more. I think Warhammer 40k is a perfectly fine name

 Ribon Fox wrote:
Your also coming of as a first year marketing student

Hey hey hey, be nice. There's no reason to start throwing insults around, like saying someone is from marketing.

I don't see how the name is nearly as bad as Mass Effect and ME is one of the most commercially successful video games ever. Dragon Age has horribly generic and cheesy name, yet it is also successful.

 Ribon Fox wrote:
[]
I don't think its the name, far from. It is at its heart a table top game which involves pushing little toy solders around, throwing two hand fulls worth of dice (guard and ork plays know what I mean,) and going "PEWWW PEWWW PEWWW!"

Your also coming of as a first year marketing student as well as a green 40k-er. But fear not, the longer you stay as one of us the more jaded and bitter you become

I'm not sure where you're getting any of that from. I've never studied anything but language (2/3 through my second Bachelors) and I've been playing 40k since 2002. I suppose that's green compared to some players but probably not most.

I also agree that that's what 40k is all about. It's about silly, over the top background and making pew pew noises with space mans or occasionally RAWR noises from their space chainsaw swords.

edit: Having re-read your post a couple of times I'm starting to think that maybe you meant to quote someone else because I really don't get what your post has to do with mine.

 tuebor wrote:
edit: Having re-read your post a couple of times I'm starting to think that maybe you meant to quote someone else because I really don't get what your post has to do with mine.

No fear, I think they meant me.

But marketing student? No way. They eat those where I'm from. It came about because you know how sometimes you use a word, and then think about how silly that word is? That happened to me with 'Warhammer 40,000' yesterday.

Before that it was the word 'Breakfast' which makes no sense. No one fasts any more. It should be called First Eats.