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ted1138 wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
You do not disembark 6". You disembark in contact with the access point and make a normal move, ending entirely within 6".

Right. So if you aren't allowed to move, you just disembark and stay there...

No... because the move is part of the disembark. The disembark consists of two actions. The first is being placed in contact with the access point. The second is the normal move. If you're allowed to disembark you're allowed to do both.

So the moving part of the disembarking rule isn't movement, it's just part of disembarking. That means a model getting out of a vehicle, where it is allowed to move as normal, can move another 6" after disembarking up 6" from the vehicle?

That would be true except for the actual rules.

After disembarking, models can shoot, counting as having moved, or choose to Run in their subsequent Shooting phase, but cannot declare a charge in their subsequent Assault phase.

That is the sum total of what you're allowed to do. Is there allowance there for moving in the movement phase?

 insaniak wrote:
The doors don't count, any more than they would if you drop the back door on a rhino or falcon.

Yes actually the doors do count. As the rules for open topped vehicles changed from last edition. The ENTIRE vehicle now counts as an access point, unlike last edition where the hull counted as an access pt. Most people however still play it from the hull on a drop pod, as to do otherwise would mean deep striking a vehicle the size of a dinner plate onto the table.

 Azrell wrote:

 insaniak wrote:
The doors don't count, any more than they would if you drop the back door on a rhino or falcon.

Yes actually the doors do count. As the rules for open topped vehicles changed from last edition. The ENTIRE vehicle now counts as an access point, unlike last edition where the hull counted as an access pt. Most people however still play it from the hull on a drop pod, as to do otherwise would mean deep striking a vehicle the size of a dinner plate onto the table.

That is very interesting. I just re-read the Open-Topped section and that is definitely what it says.
I now have to be more mindful of where I place my pods. This will give a about 6-8 inches of extra range!!

40k-noob wrote:

 Azrell wrote:

 insaniak wrote:
The doors don't count, any more than they would if you drop the back door on a rhino or falcon.

Yes actually the doors do count. As the rules for open topped vehicles changed from last edition. The ENTIRE vehicle now counts as an access point, unlike last edition where the hull counted as an access pt. Most people however still play it from the hull on a drop pod, as to do otherwise would mean deep striking a vehicle the size of a dinner plate onto the table.

That is very interesting. I just re-read the Open-Topped section and that is definitely what it says.
I now have to be more mindful of where I place my pods. This will give a about 6-8 inches of extra range!!

You do of course realize that that kind of thinking also grants Orks extended range on their Boarding Planks, right?

Steelmage99 wrote:

40k-noob wrote:

 Azrell wrote:

 insaniak wrote:
The doors don't count, any more than they would if you drop the back door on a rhino or falcon.

Yes actually the doors do count. As the rules for open topped vehicles changed from last edition. The ENTIRE vehicle now counts as an access point, unlike last edition where the hull counted as an access pt. Most people however still play it from the hull on a drop pod, as to do otherwise would mean deep striking a vehicle the size of a dinner plate onto the table.

That is very interesting. I just re-read the Open-Topped section and that is definitely what it says.
I now have to be more mindful of where I place my pods. This will give a about 6-8 inches of extra range!!

You do of course realize that that kind of thinking also grants Orks extended range on their Boarding Planks, right?

The rules are the rules. Is playing by the rules wrong?

I haven't got the BRB to check with me right now, but it seems a little beardy. As far as I remembered the entire vehicle always counted as a disembarkation point, but you never counted decorative bits like antenna, weapon barrels, doors etc. I can't imagine they intended to do it this way.

 Infreak wrote:
I haven't got the BRB to check with me right now, but it seems a little beardy. As far as I remembered the entire vehicle always counted as a disembarkation point, but you never counted decorative bits like antenna, weapon barrels, doors etc. I can't imagine they intended to do it this way.

Here is the rule:

"Open-topped vehicles do not have specific Access Points. Instead, all of the vehicle is considered to be an Access Point (regardless of any base they may have)."

ted1138 wrote:
So the moving part of the disembarking rule isn't movement, it's just part of disembarking.

No, it's very clearly movement. But it's movement that is a part of the disembarking process.

That means a model getting out of a vehicle, where it is allowed to move as normal, can move another 6" after disembarking up 6" from the vehicle?

Sorry, but what...?

40k-noob wrote:

 Infreak wrote:
I haven't got the BRB to check with me right now, but it seems a little beardy. As far as I remembered the entire vehicle always counted as a disembarkation point, but you never counted decorative bits like antenna, weapon barrels, doors etc. I can't imagine they intended to do it this way.

Here is the rule:

"Open-topped vehicles do not have specific Access Points. Instead, all of the vehicle is considered to be an Access Point (regardless of any base they may have)."

This is exactly the same as 5th. The doors still don't count, because they're not considered to be part of the hull. For an open-topped vehicle, like any other vehicle all measurements are to/from the hull.

If you count the doors as hull, drop pods are ridiculously impractical to play with. If you ignore the doors (as IME everyone does), then it's easy and straightforward.

 Mannahnin wrote:

40k-noob wrote:

 Infreak wrote:
I haven't got the BRB to check with me right now, but it seems a little beardy. As far as I remembered the entire vehicle always counted as a disembarkation point, but you never counted decorative bits like antenna, weapon barrels, doors etc. I can't imagine they intended to do it this way.

Here is the rule:

"Open-topped vehicles do not have specific Access Points. Instead, all of the vehicle is considered to be an Access Point (regardless of any base they may have)."

This is exactly the same as 5th. The doors still don't count, because they're not considered to be part of the hull. For an open-topped vehicle, like any other vehicle all measurements are to/from the hull.

If you count the doors as hull, drop pods are ridiculously impractical to play with. If you ignore the doors (as IME everyone does), then it's easy and straightforward.

The word "hull" is not in any part of the open topped rule. Also keep in mind that if you are counting the doors, you don't get to chose to put them up, the model must be placed in a legal position then you roll for scatter. So it increased the area of the model allot. I glue mine shut for ease of travel, so iv never played with the doors.

The word "hull" doesn't have to be in the open-topped rule, because as with all vehicles, all measurements to and from the vehicle are made to its hull. Nothing about the open-topped rules changes that.

@Mannahnin: I'm asking this, not to be snarky, but rather because I really don't know: Where does it state the doors of a drop pod are not considered part of it's hull?

In the previous edition FAQ it was pretty plain. However I see nothing in the SM FAQ that states the doors are a separate item from the hull of the pod.


Thinking about this, if they are treated as part of the hull, then there are all sorts of problems. Large footprint means easier mishap. Also those pods with the doors glued shut would be considered MFA. Marine disembarkment is essentially doubled.

If they aren't part of the hull, then they are ignored and the footprint stays about right and people can continue safely gluing the doors shut.

Ok, talked myself out of it. The only sensible thing here is to state doors != hull.

 Azrell wrote:
Also keep in mind that if you are counting the doors, you don't get to chose to put them up, the model must be placed in a legal position then you roll for scatter.

There is no requirement in the rules for the doors on the pod to be open.

clively wrote:
@Mannahnin: I'm asking this, not to be snarky, but rather because I really don't know.

Where does it state the doors of a drop pod are not considered part of it's hull?

In the previous edition FAQ it was pretty plain. However I see nothing in the SM FAQ that states the doors are a separate item from the hull of the pod.

Reasonable question. There are two main factors: changing models during the game and practical play.

1. A lot of transports have hatches and doors which can be physically moved and lowered, as with some other kits which can be moved and re-positioned during the game. No rule exists guiding how or whether these re-positionings are allowed. The normal convention is that no such re-positioning is allowed, in part because it helps avoid issues of modeling for advantage. You don't get to lower the front hatch on a Land Raider or the rear hatch on a Rhino to get extra move + disembark distance, and similarly the doors on a pod should not gain extra distance.
2. For sheer practicality, counting the doors as hull makes drop pods a ridiculous PITA to play with. You can't move over the hull of a vehicle, so if the doors count, they block movement over a big section of table. When someone plays with several of them, they could form giant impassible walls covering half of the table.

 Mannahnin wrote:
2. For sheer practicality, counting the doors as hull makes drop pods a ridiculous PITA to play with. You can't move over the hull of a vehicle, so if the doors count, they block movement over a big section of table. When someone plays with several of them, they could form giant impassible walls covering half of the table.

And, of course, if you're playing with the right amount of terrain on the table, actually deploying more than one or two pods becomes an exercise in futility.