Hunchkrot wrote:

willhman wrote:

Hunchkrot wrote:
The orks didn't see the Tyranids who tore their warboss limb from limb as a threat? Not buying it. And the tyranids use guerilla tactics pretty often, actually. Genestealer cults and such, you know.

Ok first off, the orks did not perceive the nids as a threat. This is obvious because the orks didn't retaliate. It has been shown many a time were an ork warboss is killed, and his waaaagh falls apart. The reason it falls apart is because there is no enemy that is tuff enough for them. At this time, warbosses who wanted to be leader of the Waaaagh fight for the leadership. Because of their inner fighting, this allows said weak enemies to become threats, were as before they were not. An example of this is Ghorola. Because the nids numbers were so low, the orks thought that Skarfang died because he was just weak.

If Skarfang was a tuff ork then he would have taken the nids down easily. Since the bugs killed him, then logically, he was a weak boss, it wasn't cause the nids were strong opponents, just that Skarfang was stupid and weak. I mean, how could they be a threat, only one ship got through, and landed not even a tribes worth of nids, that shouldn't be so tough.

This is the kinda stuff the ork warbosses thought as they battled each other because they thought that they were the toughtest orks out their and so on and so forth. The nids didn't really kill the orks, it was the ork warbosses pride. If you read the books, what usually stops the orks from actually winning is their belief that they can't possible lose till it is to late to see that because they thought the couldn't lose they left openings that the enemy could exploit to their victory. This happens alot in today's warfare and will continue to happen for as long as we see it.

Also Genestealer cults do not count as Guerrilla warfare. The reason being is that, they are a vanguard strain, meant to weaken the enemy, so that the main invasion of the hive fleet may commence with as little difficulty as possible. To do this, genestealers integrate themselves into society, and then when prepared, go for all out rebellion. This is to stir up chaos.

Other reasons why genestealer cults don't use Guerrilla warfare is because, when they start their revolution, they will usually have a good portion of the population on their side. Also, genestealers should have infiltrated the government by now, all the way to the top. Because of this, this effectively stops the military on the planet from becoming able to work efficiently. Indeed, it isn't unlikely to see two regiments of loyal pdf fighting each other because they both believe the other is corrupted.

Guerrilla warfare is when a smaller force fights a larger force using unorthadox tactics, and yes the genestealers do use unorthadox tactics, by the time they are usually found out, they are not the smaller force. The genestealers invade, integrate themselves part of the system, then ripe the system in half, effectively cutting off a united enemy. Indeed genestealer cults usually are the ones that are the larger force, and the IOM is the one using guerrilla tactics, because the genestealers have either fooled, infected, and put in people who will serve them. Brood brothers, serve to make the bulk of the pdf forces, so that when the time comes, they will turn, and leave the rest of the pdf without an army. Genestealers and 4th generations will infect\take over commanding positions in the pdf, making leadership a problem. This effectivly leaves a nothing but chaos, so that when the hive fleet comes there is no organized defence waiting for them.

Genestealers are not Guerrilla fighters but Saboteurs, and sleeper agents.

You do have a very valid point on genestealers being saboteurs rather than guerrilas. I'd never looked at it like that. But as for Skarfang? That's a whole lot of inferrence. I've never read anything that stated how strong Skarfang was, or anything that suggested the orks didn't know he was killed by nids, or anything that suggested the orks didn't percieve the nids as a threat, before or after Skarfang's death.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And no, there weren't any cults in Octarius. But I do remember reading about the existence of ork cults recently. In the background story for the campaign weekend for June, maybe? I'll look it up later.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:

Xyptc wrote:

Except that the most recent material on this, the last Tyranid Codex, has the Genestealer Cult in the Octarius sector thriving and spreading far and wise with great ease, before finally being purged. So while the Genestealer tactics that work on humans don't work on Orks, they clearly did something else that worked extremely well. Well enough to summon a sizable tendril of Leviathan.

Does it state genestealer cults?

Let me go check this..


Page 30 of the nid codex says 'within weeks the tyranid infestation had spread to a dozen worlds' which does not mention stealer cults, nor tyranid dominance on those worlds, but likely genestealers reaching orkish worlds from the Hulk that Kryptman sent into that realm and sending out psychic signals.

Is there any other part of the codex that indicates cults of greenstealers? Or of them dominating the local orkish cultures? I'm not finding any.

 Manchu wrote:
But fluff doesn't seem to support Waaagh! energy disrupting the Hive Mind at all, at least as far as I can remember. But I daresay we'd have to get into rules-as-fluff type discussion to get to the bottom of that one.