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Not one person in this thread has said that or close. They are pretty well thought out explanations of why they think he is banned.

You're pointing to one instance of one tourney as proof. But then you could point to the many instances of many tourneys where he's banned as counter proof.

Saying he's T3 is an argument. Saying someone didn't win isn't an argument. If you give someone a .44 magnum handgun and they shoot at you and miss, that doesn't mean a .44 magnum is a wussy weapon, it means they missed.

Now if he wasn't comped in every tournament and HE always got crushed and people regularly took Teclis, that would be an argument. I haven't heard anyone hint that was the case.

 HoverBoy wrote:
By the time you convince anyone to ban anything the new HE book will be out.

This. I haven't seen any of the new special characters being a real problem, and GW have built up a lot of credibility with me in the hardcover books. I'd suggest the most broken 8th Ed SC is Throgg, mainly for his ancillary benefit of making trolls into the game's best core, but you only have to get him HKB'd once to know he's not unbeatable. Wait for the new books to drop, I'd say. Skulltaker is fine now, so is Kairos, Mannfred is pretty good but not out of control. Really the only remaining offenders are teclis (soon to be fixed, we hope) and thorek (who would be very broken except he is found in the dwarf book). This dimension of the game is moving in the right direction. let it do so.

I think the 8th SCs are very balanced. Khairos I think was a bit of an overnerf. But only slightly. If the goal of SCs is to be 75% flavor and 25% power, they're all right on. Acheron is still too much, however.

Throgg is kickass in every way. I loves me some trolls, and what's not to love about AHW (3pts!) trolls? But if they were insta-win everyone would have them. They are are still Stupid and still susceptible to flaming.

From Teclis to cars to .44 magnums.

You have to love the Internet. I guess we will see what happens to the old boy in two weeks.

What else is banned in your FLGS? If the answer is nothing, I can't see trying to single out any item/char from any book as a good idea. Why should you ban one thing in one book and not stuff in others?

...because that one thing stands clearly out from all others

With about a week left in the current army book's lifetime any attempt to do so will be met with uncontrollable laughter.

I read on Faeit212 (before it got pulled down), that the big all-doubles-IF and ignore-first-miscast stuff is getting nerfed, and that moon staff is getting changed to a 1 use only item that also lowers his S and T to 1 for the rest of the game.

Better?

He was rumored to get all the BRB signature spells or all the High Magic spells.

If that gave him access to all the inherent traits to the BRB spells that would be pretty crazy.

the latest rumor is him getting either all High Magic spells, or the ability to pick one spell from each BRB lore. He's also effectively a Lvl5 wizard.

 Grey Templar wrote:
the latest rumor is him getting either all High Magic spells, or the ability to pick one spell from each BRB lore. He's also effectively a Lvl5 wizard.

If that is 'roll one spell from each lore' that is brilliant, I no longer have to fear him. If it is literally pick one from each then it could be nasty.

Its pick one from each.

Of course he can't pick all of them from the same lore according to the rumor. So he can't get great internal synergy with specific lores, only whatever exists between having spells from different lores on the same caster.

Wonder if its anything similar to that new Loremaster wizard who gets the signature spell from each of the lores.

That's pretty close to Kairos, who is about his nearest cousin. Teclis being that he's a wuss in combat. Kairos being that he's a giant wuss in combat but at least he's a daemonic monster.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Its pick one from each.

Of course he can't pick all of them from the same lore according to the rumor. So he can't get great internal synergy with specific lores, only whatever exists between having spells from different lores on the same caster.

Matt begs to differ, he stated it's roll one spell for each lore. If he is able to *pick* one spell of each lore, he is broken again unless he also lost the ability to always IF.

The Scroll of Hoeth is the same, but its one use only.

The Moonstaff gives him the ability to either choose to add a bonus power die to each casting attempt, of if teclis suffers a miscast, the miscast is ignored. In either case, Teclis' S and T are both reduced to 1 for the remainder of the game. One use only.

So, I haven't seen the new book yet but I'm very interested to know what changes have happened to Teclis. Anyone care to post a short write-up of what Teclis can do now?

He's cheaper, but he also seems properly nerfed now. I wouldn't actually feel bad about fielding him now.

Two big changes:

He can either have all of his High Elf spells, or pick one from each other lore. While picking might still be a little OP, I think it is a lot better than "I just take all the spells from the lore that will screw you most!"

Most his super special abilities are one-use items now.

 d-usa wrote:
He's cheaper, but he also seems properly nerfed now. I wouldn't actually feel bad about fielding him now.

Two big changes:

He can either have all of his High Elf spells, or pick one from each other lore. While picking might still be a little OP, I think it is a lot better than "I just take all the spells from the lore that will screw you most!"

Most his super special abilities are one-use items now.

IIRC he still basically gets two 'free' miscasts that won't blow him up, so that's pretty damn good right there.

As for his picking 1 spell per BRB lore, it's not ment to make him auto-screw your opponent now, but rather, build him into the most epic supportive monster you can!
For example, add another pair of characters to shift him into the second rank of a Phoenix Guard unit, and then support them with the likes of Glittering Robe/Wildform/Regrowth while hitting the enemy with Enfeebling Foe...

Sure, he won't auto-cast all his spells anymore like before, but still with +4 to-cast and being able to keep all his buffs on just their basic casting value, it'll still be a huge problem for most opponents to dispel all of it unless they've gone for purely 100% magic defense.

Is he as good as he was in the past and is he still ban-worthy though?

There is a difference between being a really good SC, and being broken. I think they managed to dial him down a notch or two.

 d-usa wrote:
Is he as good as he was in the past and is he still ban-worthy though?

There is a difference between being a really good SC, and being broken. I think they managed to dial him down a notch or two.

He is still powerful but he only gets 1 turn on irresistible on doubles and after that he is down to t 1

 d-usa wrote:
Is he as good as he was in the past and is he still ban-worthy though?

There is a difference between being a really good SC, and being broken. I think they managed to dial him down a notch or two.

I would think Alarielle would be the top contender for "if you have to ban 1 High Elf special character," rather than Teclis.

Her bonuses are insane for her cost, and she outright makes Daemons cry, especially when combo'd alongside the Ward Dragon Banner. (even daemonic re-directors won't work, becuase she'll just sit there and her auto-magic missile will take case of them!)

Teclis will still be a complete b******* towards certain armies, namely those who can't bring enough magic defense and/or deal with Phoenix Guard bricks that have 2-3 buffs on them.

But I'd still rather face him than freaking Alarielle!

Teclis got radically changed.

Now the only lore he can have all of is High Magic, which isn't a bad idea.

He's powerful but not the level of stupidity he was before. The Everqueen may have taken his place but that's just a first impression.

The "choose a spell from each lore" thing... does it let him pick? Or does he roll them?

I think Teclis is fine now.

He gets to choose spells from the lores. But only 1 from each lore. Considering many lores synergize internally, you often miss out. Like having just one spell from Life or fire means you don't get their stacking benefits.

It also means he has to choose between, regrowth and flesh to stone. If he's able to take signatures i expect to see a lot of miasma+purple sun on him though.

He's toned down now. I now think that Arkhan, Fateweaver and a Slann have him beat.

Fateweaver has more choices, but limitations on which he can cast each turn, and for him, which is ok. And Tzeentch has a lot of options on it's own. Treason+ Doom and Darkness is a good combo

 Acardia wrote:
He's toned down now. I now think that Arkhan, Fateweaver and a Slann have him beat.

Fateweaver has more choices, but limitations on which he can cast each turn, and for him, which is ok. And Tzeentch has a lot of options on it's own. Treason+ Doom and Darkness is a good combo

I'd still argue that Teclis is better than Fatey, for the sole reason that you can't hide him in a unit meaning no Look out Sir! rolls, his stats are sub-par for a Greater and he costs over 600pts to even field!

1 Cannonball can end Fatey a heck of alot easier than it will Teclis...

 Tangent wrote:
The "choose a spell from each lore" thing... does it let him pick? Or does he roll them?

I believe it means he picks spells. Including the sig spells if you want.

I wouldn't count Teclis out of the game just yet. He is toned down only in the regard that you'll have a chance to dispell him more regularly now, but that isn't what your problem is going to be.

He will effectively allow for one of two nasty things to happen. The first is the old trick of just flat out ignoring miscasts. We know what this is good for. He will then get debuffed. As a HE player, I promise you I could care less if he is S1 T1. If I allow either of those two factors to come into play for him, I've done something wrong and he deserves to die.

The second nasty thing is what will happen when your HE player rolls for a big magic phase. Activating the second option for his staff, allowing him to roll an extra dice with every casting attempt, is going to be a very big headache. Think about it, then come walk with me.

Let's ignore him taking High Magic for a moment. He will know 8 spells. That's a lot. He will have a +5 to cast. That's a lot. If he cast's on a purpose built "buff me" unit with the Avelorn banner, he will have a +9 to cast...you will need to roll 2 dice just to have a reasonable chance of cancelling out his wizardness on that unit. Don't think you'll care? You will when they become T5 and WS10.

If the HE player so chooses, there are dozens of combinations that will have VERY moderate casting values. Teclis, on a great winds of magic phase, will have 12 dice. Best odds are the opponent will have 7-8. Here comes the problem. Teclis will VERY safely 1-2 dice all of his spells, and add in his free one. That will turn his magic phase into, effectively, having 18-24 power dice. You will stop some, sure, but you will not be able to stop them all.

In effect, he went from being able to reliably get off 2-4 spells each magic phase that you couldn't do anything about, to casting 6-8 spells each magic phase that you can only stop a couple of.

Choose wisely ^_^