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Apologies, I think I saw this discussed elsewhere, but for WoC there are two fairly similar choices in Chaos Ogres and Trolls.
Now the Trolls have more base attacks, but the Ogres can be given AHW and MoK
The trolls have regen, the ogres chaos armour.
The trolls have more wounds and vomit, but with say halberds the ogres have better strength.
The ogres get impact hits on the charge, the tolls not.

But, the trolls have stupidity which means a test on a very low LD in order to do anything useful.
Surely this a big handicap?
Or are they covered by the general or BSB LD bubble?
Even so, in WoC you are looking at an 8 or 9 so fails are reasonably likely.

How do people deal with this or am I missing something?
Since I see a lot of troll lists but not too many ogre heavy ones.

the chaos ogres are good, i tend to run 2 ranks of four with great weapons. and mark of khorne or nurgle.


trolls ok i think ure you get insipiring presence from ur lords heroes etc but having throgg with em making them both core and i doubt you will ever fail those tests then

Yeah same here with the Ogres. The 2 ranks of 4 with GW is deadly and tough. I find they are better to take than trolls. Trolls are good, but regen isnt as reliable as Chaos Armour with a mark of nurgle. And Ogres can do a wider variety of tasks.

Methinks most people take trolls for core, which is pretty awesome. Though anyone who takes special trolls feel free to disagree with me!

Not sure why you mentioned halberds, ogres cant take halberds. Though with GW they will be smashing things

I think AHW trolls are great at taking on bog standard troops while GW ogres can crush elite units and monsters

Trolls are epic as a core choice with Throgg to lead them.

They are both really good units. The Trolls are the best trolls in the game. And Ogres are close if not the best because of all their options. They're just Special. They don't get Chaos Armor anymore, just HA. It's stuff like this that knocks me out people can honestly say WoC aren't awesome when they have Ogres that are as the Ogres of the actual Ogre army.

Stupidity is a pretty harsh rule when you have as low LD as they do. Certainly Ogres are more reliable and the Chaos ones can be tailored to do a lot of different things. Though they don't have the best LD either.

DukeRustfield wrote:
They are both really good units. The Trolls are the best trolls in the game. And Ogres are close if not the best because of all their options. They're just Special. They don't get Chaos Armor anymore, just HA. It's stuff like this that knocks me out people can honestly say WoC aren't awesome when they have Ogres that are as the Ogres of the actual Ogre army.

Stupidity is a pretty harsh rule when you have as low LD as they do. Certainly Ogres are more reliable and the Chaos ones can be tailored to do a lot of different things. Though they don't have the best LD either.

I'm thinking 8 ogres of nurgle + great weapons is awesome. With full command, it's just shy of 400 points, but it dishes out a ton of damage (25 S6 attacks, impacts and stomps).

-Matt

Two rows of 4, or keep it as rows of 3 with someone like Throgg in there?

I think more rows is better. And yeah, Throgg is probably pretty good to bunker there. I thought about whether you want him in Trolls instead, but you don't want him being in a Stupid unit even with an 8 roll.

Trolls already got vomit and 5S and AHW thus are pretty good against any units in the game. Just about anything that goes up against them they can beat for cost (I loves trolls). There's just that small matter of them being Stupid. GW needs to make some new troll models.

I am waiting for mine from the Mantic Kings of War Kickstarter. Will have 9 coming my way so I will definitely bee using them in a WoC army. Look really really good thus far.

Is 12 too many trolls? and how would I configure them? 4 by 3?

BAN wrote:
Is 12 too many trolls? and how would I configure them? 4 by 3?

12 is the most common size I usually see

Formation depends a bit I suppose if you like CR, though with 4x3 you got 2 whole trolls extra to attack the enemy

12 is an awful lot. Any Init test that lands on them will make you cry.

Only 3 attacks can come from the 2nd rank if you take AHW and you really should since it's dirt cheap.

I think one thing you can use trolls for is walking cover. They are fast and have regen and good T and W. So you could have a line of them leading your charge with the point that they block LOS to a lot of your other troops. Likewise, cannons have to shoot through them. Even 2 deep that is pretty unlikely.

One idea I've been kicking around is to have basically 2 mini-armies. A DP in one and Throgg in the other. And try and come from 2 sides on the enemy. Most armies can't split up very well or their LD goes to crap. But WoC has a lot of monsters and choices with really good LD. And some with really bad LD. Like Giants, Dragon Ogres, Shaggoths, Mutaliths, Spawns, etc. You have several unbreakable units, the rest are LD 8 at least that are really killy and good defenses, so not often going to lose combat.

Anyway...

I'd be tempted to take two smaller units in core with Throgg and support from the usuals i.e. Skullcrushers, etc. That's an awful lot of monstrous stuff to deal with and pretty tough in CC. If it isn't obvious, the additional hand weapon on the trolls is more than worth it.

DukeRustfield wrote:

Only 3 attacks can come from the 2nd rank if you take AHW and you really should since it's dirt cheap.

Trolls are MI, they make all their attacks from second row

Niteware wrote:

DukeRustfield wrote:

Only 3 attacks can come from the 2nd rank if you take AHW and you really should since it's dirt cheap.

Trolls are MI, they make all their attacks from second row

Oh I wish they did (Mmmmm AHW Khorne Ogres)

Capped at 3.

Ah, I see now that that is what was meant, rather than 3 from the whole second rank.

Yah, 3 max.

I'd go with units of 6-8. Any more and they become massive targets for spells i.e. Purple Sun.

 John Rainbow wrote:
I'd go with units of 6-8. Any more and they become massive targets for spells i.e. Purple Sun.

If I have purple sun, it's going at the ogres/trolls no matter what. Everything else in your army is Init 5.

-Matt

3 Trolls isn't worth risking exploding yourself on. Which is why I brought up MSU trolls which are still viable if you're near Throgg/DP. Even Ogres are I2.

In a 2400pt list i'm running a sorceror lord of tzeentch on disk, throgg, a nurgle sorceror with skull of katam (to buff the trolls), a bsb in gorbeast chariot (because i didn't know where to put him)
18 nurgle warriors(bunker for the nurgle sorceror) 12 trolls, 5 warhounds and 2 chimeras.

I have 20 points to kill at the moment if i drop the trolls to 8 i have 172pts to play with. what i'd do with those points i don't know, maybe another chariot?

The point is this, in this army is 8 trolls enough or should i stick with 12. If I had 12 do i lump them together or split them into 2 units of 6?

I think 8 is fine. I think 3-6 is fine.

I run 7 trolls with throgg. It's cheap enough that I'm not totally done if the enemy manages to kill it with purple sun, and it's pretty darn deadly. Fast, too!