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Thanks for providing that.

Logically, any phenotype that arose from "shaping" should be considered a sub-species of Kroot.

My question -- that may be answered in FW's Taros book -- is whether Gnarloc precede or suceed Kroot.

A further question is whether the ability to shape is a novel characteristic of the Kroot, i.e., whether all of their genetic forbears lacked that trait. Kroothawk, you seem to suggest that the Kroot alone are not "evolutionary deadends" but what about, for example, the common ancestor itself?

Yes, all Kroot are a subspecies of Kroot including humanoid Kroot. Perhaps excluding Kroothawks.

I don't recall their actually being much about the Kroot in Taros.

Don't know about Gnarlocs but they probably evolved concurrently with the humanoids. Genestealing is inherent in all Kroot but things like kroothounds have run out of "rewritable DNA" so are stuck like that.

It's best not to think about of the the humanoid Kroot as standard Kroot. They're not set anyway, each generation is different from the last.

 KamikazeCanuck wrote:
Perhaps excluding Kroothawks.

Certainly excluding Kroothawk at least by the Kroot's own account -- unless what the Kroot mean by "common ancestor" is that the Kroothawk could shape and its evolution looking forward was all a matter of shaping.

 KamikazeCanuck wrote:
I don't recall their actually being much about the Kroot in Taros.

Weren't Knarlocs introduced there?

Perhaps, only new info I remember about the Kroot from Taros is that they would use terror/intimidation tactics. They spiked a half eaten officer to a pole. That shows they can restrain themseves from eating a whole delicious human for war purposes.

Now I consulted the Taros Campaign book. Of couse Knarlocs and Greater Knarlocs were introduced with this book, and the reference part of the book has quite detailed info about them.

Both are natural species of the jungles of Pech, evolutionary related to Kroot but obviously not "shaped" by them. No specific date of species origin is given of course, but both Knarloc species exist for a long time and coexist with Kroot for a long time. Kroot domesticate and train them, sometimes even hunt and eat (small) Knarloc flesh to gain their hunter qualities.

Greater Knarlocs are also described as evolutionary cul-de-sacs, so their ancestors possessed greater genetic variability as todays Kroot do. You are what you eat, is more true for Kroot than for anyone else. Choice of food is essential but even for Kroot "not a science" but an instincual choice. In Kroot kindreds, Shapers have a special role in chosing food or declaring it taboo, often decided by smell. So what shapers do, is not fundamentally different to what all animals on Pech do, chose their food instinctively. With their larger brains and culture, Kroot are just better at it than Knarlocs etc. Just to make it clear: None of today's shapers would willingly lead his kindred into an evolutionary cul-de-sacs, just to save money on a horse or something.

BTW now you understand why offering a Burger to a Kroot is considered an insult

Very interesting, thanks for posting. So other species native to Pech can also shape? I wonder what the smaller Knarlocs ate to become Greater ones -- and what exactly about getting bigger led to the dead end? Is it really just a question of empty space on the old double helix?

I think, most of the time it is a shrinking brain, leading to shrinking abilities to form your kindreds future. That's why Kroot would never eat greater Knarlocs, but once in a while smaller (and rather intelligent) Knarlocs.

And I wouldn't call it shape, as it implies a concious decision. Only shapers come close to making concious decisions.

 Kroothawk wrote:
I think, most of the time it is a shrinking brain, leading to shrinking abilities to form your kindreds future.

Evolutionary deadend implies something stronger than that (given that shapers could simply feed them as per the desired result). Also that seems directly at odds with this:

 Kroothawk wrote:
And I wouldn't call it shape, as it implies a concious decision. Only shapers come close to making concious decisions.

As I said "dead-end" Kroot have no "junk" DNA which for Kroot is rewritable DNA. Shapers understand this on a non-scientific level and make it their life's work to make sure their clan doesn't and up as dogs.